Question: Do forums like this bring us closer together or tear us apart?

[DZip]

I have a question for those that use this forum. Does all of the blaming, criticizing, fault finding, and name calling of Clinton, Bush, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, and conservatives bring us closer together as a country or stimulate more anger and hatred against those that do not share our views? I am just wondering about it because it seems that many people are getting more and more angered with anyone that disagrees with them.

This is America; we have a right to disagree. It seems that many of us have forgotten that while I may not agree with your views I should still show you respect. Our children do not know what respect for authority is when we continually show disrespect for our ministers, teachers, bosses, spouses, police, politicians, and children. What happened to the idea that "if you can't say anything good about a person, don't say anything"? We have become a society that makes decisions based on the less negatives rather than the most positives.

 

[Fencer128]

So long as the arguements are put forward politely - and with the person ready to accept the possibility that they could be wrong (see my sig) - I think this whole process is extremely beneficial.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[jjones]

<james dean>"You're tearing me apart!"</james dean>

 

[LilBlinbBlahIce]

I say it's about checks and balanes, it what makes our country so great. You have people with extreme views on the right who get balanced out by those with extreme views on the left, then everybody inbetween. Sometimes, as in times of crisis, the equilibrium swings one way or another, but I think at the end of the day, whatever our views on Bush, US foreign policy etc., we all love this country in our own way. The right defends its every action, the left trys to point out how those same actions could be detimental to it. Now there are obviously exceptions to everything, but this is atleast how I like to think things are. Now in this forum, I think the most vocal of us are just extreamly passionate about our views, so we make no apologies for getting at each other throaths, but I think that if we ran into each other on the street, without knowing each others political views, we could probably have a beer and get along.

 

[bolinger]

Strange, I don't remember so many political issues during the Clinton administration that warranted the creation of a separate forum. I guess Bush is doing a great job "invoking" (read: polarizing) the American people.

And if anyone brings up Clinton's sex scandel, so help me... That was a mere soap opera by today's standards of a political misstep.

 

[CPA]

Originally posted by: bolinger
Strange, I don't remember so many political issues during the Clinton administration that warranted the creation of a separate forum. I guess Bush is doing a great job "invoking" (read: polarizing) the American people.

And if anyone brings up Clinton's sex scandel, so help me... That was a mere soap opera by today's standards of a political misstep.

and pray tell, what has been Bush's political misstep?

 

[RigorousT]

Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
I say it's about checks and balanes, it what makes our country so great. You have people with extreme views on the right who get balanced out by those with extreme views on the left, then everybody inbetween. Sometimes, as in times of crisis, the equilibrium swings one way or another, but I think at the end of the day, whatever our views on Bush, US foreign policy etc., we all love this country in our own way. The right defends its every action, the left trys to point out how those same actions could be detimental to it. Now there are obviously exceptions to everything, but this is atleast how I like to think things are. Now in this forum, I think the most vocal of us are just extreamly passionate about our views, so we make no apologies for getting at each other throaths, but I think that if we ran into each other on the street, without knowing each others political views, we could probably have a beer and get along.

[Dr. Evil]'You had me at hello.... Tear'[/Dr. Evil] Well put! One of the tacit requirements for participating in Political forum debate (and even moreso in the Otter forum) is taking everything in stride...

 

[ConclamoLudus]

I haven't slept since I joined.

 

[phillyTIM]

"know thy friends well...know thy enemies even better"



i'd say it builds community and brings us more together than apart. we all can talk, sometimes have rational discussions; if anything, we get a stark view as to what others think, which asks us to question our own views. either way, i think it makes us all better people.

 

[TheShiz]

Originally posted by: bolinger
Strange, I don't remember so many political issues during the Clinton administration that warranted the creation of a separate forum. I guess Bush is doing a great job "invoking" (read: polarizing) the American people.

And if anyone brings up Clinton's sex scandel, so help me... That was a mere soap opera by today's standards of a political misstep.

obviously it was the war that helped fuel the political discussion, not really who is in office.

 

[Martin]

I'd say tear apart

 

[SnapIT]

I'd say the opposite Marty... at least for the few Euros here... it is painfully obvious that we are different from the American crowd...

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: DZip
I have a question for those that use this forum. Does all of the blaming, criticizing, fault finding, and name calling of Clinton, Bush, Democrats, Republicans, liberals, and conservatives bring us closer together as a country or stimulate more anger and hatred against those that do not share our views? I am just wondering about it because it seems that many people are getting more and more angered with anyone that disagrees with them.

This is America; we have a right to disagree. It seems that many of us have forgotten that while I may not agree with your views I should still show you respect. Our children do not know what respect for authority is when we continually show disrespect for our ministers, teachers, bosses, spouses, police, politicians, and children. What happened to the idea that "if you can't say anything good about a person, don't say anything"? We have become a society that makes decisions based on the less negatives rather than the most positives.

Actually, this is not "America", it is Cyberspace. Certainly the servers are in "America"(Florida IIRC), but us foreigners didn't have to check-in at customs or the INS to post here.

Anyway, I think it does a little of both, but I think in time it brings "most" of us together. Let me splain: When I first got on the Internet, various other forums, and AT I held some pretty entrenched Opinions on various matters. For quite awhile I remained staunchly rigid, but as other Opinions were exposed to me they had the affect of refining and softening some of my Opinions, not all though some remain fairly rigid or have grown more rigid. This is likely true of all, but the most close minded.

I think it's all the affect of social interaction. In Ancient times and even in Modern times various peoples have/do gather to discuss "issues". During these discussion a variety of opinions are expressed, opinions that many have never heard before or perhaps the reasoning behind those opinions has never been heard before. When this type of social interaction takes place, often the hearer suddenly realizes that what they "assumed" about certain types of people is false or not based on quite the reasoning that was assumed.

Case in point: When I was younger, I was raised in a fairly fundamentalist Christian manner. I was a Conservative, Unions were the devil, hated "Godless Communists", feared "Socialists"(Godless Communist Wannabes!), and believed many other things. That's not to say that I was "close-minded", because I wasn't, I just thought I knew what was Right/Wrong and what the thinking behind those who do Right/Wrong was. When I left home after high school grad, my education was about to begin.

I began meeting Liberals and "Socialists"! :Q I'm a curious one so I'd attempt to correct their faultyness(sp) through discussion. Soon it became apparent that what I thought they thought was incorrect. Maybe I was just lucky, for they weren't jingoistic morons, but had very well reasoned arguements to support their opinions. At any rate, I soon had to accept that there actually was a legitimacy to the Liberal/"Socialist" point of view. This certainly doesn't nullify Conservative/"Capitalism", but what it did was point out that the need or cause of both (Liberal/"Socialist)/(Conservative/"Capitalism") is based on Reason and past experience. Not only are both sides legitimate, but their Legitimacy can be seen in the Society(ies) we live in today. We live in Mixed Pragmatic Societies, because of the need for a balance between the 2 schools of thought.

 

[Bleep]

and pray tell, what has been Bush's political misstep?

Well there is none, we all know that he is perfect he has a a godlike quality about him that prevents him from making any errors.

I have noticed that from these forums the right has found a new tactic and are even using it on its own fellow republicans and that is if someone disagrees with you he is a trator to his country.

Forums like this do nothing to bring the differences together it just keeps anyone from discussing anything without insults and outright lies to prove ones point. I have noted a that attacks by the right has become more and more vicious as time has went by, always questioning a persons patriotism. If fact one person went so far as to say that he doubted that there were any democrats in the service and if there were they would be the cowards that hide behind the tanks. Some of the replys to the statement made by this poster were greeted with "tell it like it is brother" "Right on the mark" and other words of congradulations for posting the obvious.
if our president makes a mistake it is almost always overshadowed by Clinton getting a BJ which is such a stupid comparison that it is not even worth reading.
I read posts that the poster stated AH HA what is this? and then the statement, a cashe of WMD's discovered, Bush was right after all only to find out the truth a couple of days later and never did the poster admit he had made a error based on the report from Fox news that he relied on to tell him the true story.
You should all remember that the Army that won the war in Iraq was the one that was improved during the 8 years of the Clinton administration. I also noticed a while back that someone made some remarks about Gephart's daughter being a lesbian and others really getting nasty about he should never be running for president with a family like that, and if got to be president that gay rights would be at the top of his list, but failed to mention that our Vice President has a daughter that is a Lesbian, a double standard here.
Welll I will stand back now and let the flames and insults come.

Bleep

 

[Purgatory-Z]

I don't think this forum really does anything to bring people closer together, or push them apart. See, the left 10% and right 10% tend to furiously duke out all the various issues. As sad as it is, those 20% will never change. They'll never change their opinion even in the face of overwhelming evidence contrary to what they think, and never think anything they say is incorrect (see Andy's sig). Of the hundreds (maybe thousands?) of people that view and post on this forum, you see the same 50ish people in just about every post.

The other 80% will happily(or unhappily) prod along. Think I'm wrong? Flame on, it won't bother me a bit =)

Purg-Z

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Purgatory-Z
I don't think this forum really does anything to bring people closer together, or push them apart. See, the left 10% and right 10% tend to furiously duke out all the various issues. As sad as it is, those 20% will never change. They'll never change their opinion even in the face of overwhelming evidence contrary to what they think, and never think anything they say is incorrect (see Andy's sig). Of the hundreds (maybe thousands?) of people that view and post on this forum, you see the same 50ish people in just about every post.

The other 80% will happily(or unhappily) prod along. Think I'm wrong? Flame on, it won't bother me a bit =)

Purg-Z

It seems to me that if one wishes to have some one respond to their post they either have to include direct comments on the absence of intellegence of a thread poster or be so esoteric that the audience becomes awed by the preceived outlandishness. Over time the 20% you mention simply respond to the same opposition with the same thrust and argument notwithstanding the topic.
I know I look forward to seeing if someone thinks what I have posted merits comment so I can "play" too... this is not often the case.. for me. I suppose I add little value to the forum given what is valued.. There is, however, an abundance of information being posted by folks to support this or that position and that is edifying... and of course there are the comments of Moonbeam that.... well.... are deep.. and a fellow or two or three or four more..
So don't give up... there is much to learn.. even though it don't bring polar sides nearer... it brings the uninformed... like me.... a better pair of glasses through which to see the reality of reality..

 

[Titan]

the internet and forums like these do not bring us closer together, if anything they keep humas seperated from each other. They just provide a lower-commmon-deonominator which we can all interface with to express ourselves, for ourselves. You plug yourself into a machine, not another human being. That is why I do my best to unplug as often as I can and go find a human to talk to. So no these forums don't "bring us closer together."

However, to address your question of debating here to have any value, and that extremists never seem to change their mind, I think the forums are healthy. If any extreme indivduals post regularly here, it allows them to vent and possibly consider the other point of view because they let something out. Communication is always a healthy thing for the communicator, that is. Another example is that sometimes having someone to talk to despite the fact they are not listening is better that not being able to say anything.

 

[ConclamoLudus]

I don't know what it does, but it sure is a great time-filler (killer) at work.

 

[DZip]

bolinger and Bleep

I was hoping to get some serious feedback on how people using these forums feel about the method. I figured that maybe it would be thought provoking and mature. Why do you feel the need to start the bashing on this thread? Are you unable to comprehend the topic.

 

[Fencer128]

Of late I've really noticed the following:

"You don't have to habe a persecution complex to post here - but it helps".

Cheers,

Andy (sans persecution complex)

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: tkotitan2
the internet and forums like these do not bring us closer together, if anything they keep humas seperated from each other. They just provide a lower-commmon-deonominator which we can all interface with to express ourselves, for ourselves. You plug yourself into a machine, not another human being. That is why I do my best to unplug as often as I can and go find a human to talk to. So no these forums don't "bring us closer together."

However, to address your question of debating here to have any value, and that extremists never seem to change their mind, I think the forums are healthy. If any extreme indivduals post regularly here, it allows them to vent and possibly consider the other point of view because they let something out. Communication is always a healthy thing for the communicator, that is. Another example is that sometimes having someone to talk to despite the fact they are not listening is better that not being able to say anything.

Odds are you are not going to go outside of your house and get the perspective of someone living in the EU, South America, etc..

It drives me crazy sometmes but I would much rather hear and understand their position than not, less information and narrow interpretation is never a positive alternative.

 

[JellyBaby]

Neither. It's pure entertainment.

They just provide a lower-commmon-deonominator which we can all interface with to express ourselves, for ourselves. You plug yourself into a machine, not another human being. That is why I do my best to unplug as often as I can and go find a human to talk to. So no these forums don't "bring us closer together."

Actually, the conversations I have with people online are often of more substance and truth than many in real life. Why? There are many more people of quality online than I happen to run into in RL.

We touch each other's minds online directly, without the baggage of personal social constructs interfering, and tend to be far more blunt, open and honest and that's refreshing in my experience.

On the flip side we're social creatures and need those personal constructs at times (nature calls).

 

[Tripleshot]

Can't you just feel the love? Can't you just feel it?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: bolinger
Strange, I don't remember so many political issues during the Clinton administration that warranted the creation of a separate forum. I guess Bush is doing a great job "invoking" (read: polarizing) the American people.

And if anyone brings up Clinton's sex scandel, so help me... That was a mere soap opera by today's standards of a political misstep.

Things were already heading down, they just reached "critical mass" during this time plus had a History shaking catalyst in the form of 9-11-01.

The online Forums will be a good "Town Square" until the Government shuts down Forums which is what they are working very hard on doing now as well as disarming the general public.

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

The online Forums will be a good "Town Square" until the Government shuts down Forums which is what they are working very hard on doing now as well as disarming the general public.

And I hope the Bush Regime catches every word I spout against their Propoganda Campaign!

I'll continue until they take me away!