Question about the LHC and Christianity

[rudeguy]

"We exist and can form complex thoughts, therefore God exists." Please explain how you get from the part before the comma to the part after the comma. My guess is that your argument would consist of a fancy version of "I have no idea how and why we are the way we are, so therefore, a higher being called God must have done it."

Intellectual lightweight.

Its called common sense. The fact that I can form a thought or exist at all is proof of an Intelligent Designer. I know how much code goes into each of our cells. I know that if one tiny bit of that code is off, we would be...well not us. But instead our DNA is exactly right and we exist.

The chances of that much code being exactly right without a Creator is about the same as me pooping out the Latin dictionary tonite.

 

[Locut0s]

But if there is no God...than why is there something rather than nothing?

Simply because there is. If there were nothing you wouldn't be here to debate it. Simply existing is no proof of God.

 

[Locut0s]

Its called common sense. The fact that I can form a thought or exist at all is proof of an Intelligent Designer. I know how much code goes into each of our cells. I know that if one tiny bit of that code is off, we would be...well not us. But instead our DNA is exactly right and we exist.

The chances of that much code being exactly right without a Creator is about the same as me pooping out the Latin dictionary tonite.

Evolution explains all of the above perfectly. I know you won't believe that and will offer ID as a counter but trust me it's explains it extremely well!!

 

[Jeff7]

But if there is no God...than why is there something rather than nothing?

If there was nothing, then there would be no one would be here to ask pointless questions.

Hah, good one. There's no bigger voyeur than God. He sits back and watches as we humans murder and pillage and destroy our Earth. Why would He care about the LHC??

Well you can blame murder and pillage on free will.
That still doesn't explain natural disasters.

AH HA! God mocks your little particle......

Let me just whip out my Babel Fish...

 

[cyclohexane]

Science is simply man trying to understand God's work.

Let me know when science creates a life from something non-living and then I might be more interested.

We are already beginning to do this. Labs around the country are now rationally designing proteins (and also some microbes) to accomplish reactions for industrial processes. For example, some researchers in the synthetic biology field is trying to use a create organisms that can produce vaccines (and also biofuels).

 

[Modelworks]

It pisses me off because its not sincere and reeks of submission solely because you can't actually make sense of things.

LOL
I find it funny really. People that defend science against religion get pissed off, but the people with religion talking about science remain calm. That should tell you something.

Just tired of getting slapped around when you try to argue science armed only with what your religion tells you instead of actually studying the science?

Are you so insecure in your beliefs that if someone disagrees with you that you feel threatened ?

Here is a science question for you ?
Explain how everything has to come from something and how that is sustainable using science.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Its called common sense. The fact that I can form a thought or exist at all is proof of an Intelligent Designer. I know how much code goes into each of our cells. I know that if one tiny bit of that code is off, we would be...well not us. But instead our DNA is exactly right and we exist.

The chances of that much code being exactly right without a Creator is about the same as me pooping out the Latin dictionary tonite.

You do realize that the code is pretty much never exactly right, its just right enough that it doesn't matter. Ever hear of cancer?

 

[RESmonkey]

http://www.deutsche-welle.de/dw/article/0,2144,646321,00.html

Like Chrono said, bad scientists may do that. A true scientist would never do something like that.

It seems your trying to undermine science. Hopefully, this isn't true.

 

[Poulsonator]

Well you can blame murder and pillage on free will.
That still doesn't explain natural disasters.

There is no free will as God supposedly knows all. Your point about natural disasters is another great example, though. Either way, God doesn't care about his 'creations'.

 

[rudeguy]

And what, the cells that make up your body aren't?

WTF is with the religious people on here going from arguing against science to this "science is just showing God and how great he is" stuff? It pisses me off because its not sincere and reeks of submission solely because you can't actually make sense of things. Just tired of getting slapped around when you try to argue science armed only with what your religion tells you instead of actually studying the science?

First off...I hate religion. Its just another form of man trying to control man.

I'm not going against science at all...am I? I don't claim to understand anything in this world fully. Anyone that does make that claim is either lying or a fool. I do a lot of research on this kind of thing. I love learning and don't preclude anything.

I do believe in God. I do believe that God created the universe and everything in it. I don't claim to understand how it all works though.

 

[IronWing]

CERN is conducting experiments to determine the existence of our universe and/or multiple universes.

If your christian, do you believe this to be a challenge to God (like the Tower of Babel)? And if so, would he intervene?

Holy shit! What if they find it not to be?

 

[darkswordsman17]

LOL
I find it funny really. People that defend science against religion get pissed off, but the people with religion talking about science remain calm. That should tell you something.



Are you so insecure in your beliefs that if someone disagrees with you that you feel threatened ?

Here is a science question for you ?
Explain how everything has to come from something and how that is sustainable using science.

They do? I must have missed the part where scientists murdered people because they didn't believe the same things as them? You're right, religious people don't get pissed off. I'm sure Galileo would agree. Also, its easy to remain calm when your argument amounts to: I don't know and can't argue my side, so I'm just going to keep repeating what my (self-admitted limited) knowledge is. It pisses me off in the same sense of a little kid telling a stupid lie does, which is to say not enough that I actually do anything more than laugh or tell them to stop. I try to explain why I'm saying you're wrong, because I assume you're a mature adult that is capable of considering it.

 

[Nik]

I do believe in God. I do believe that God created the universe and everything in it. I don't claim to understand how it all works though.

Why do you believe? What evidences have you studied to bring you to that conclusion?

Are those evidences observable, measurable, and repeatable? Is "god" the only possible explaination? Is "god" one of many possible explainations but one that is most reasonable because the other possible conclusions drawn from your evidence far too incredulous to believe?

 

[Cogman]

I still think that satan is going to spew out of it once they open up a wormhole to nirabu....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1Yo610lG0

 

[rudeguy]

Why do you believe? What evidences have you studied to bring you to that conclusion?

Are those evidences observable, measurable, and repeatable? Is "god" the only possible explaination? Is "god" one of many possible explainations but one that is most reasonable because the other possible conclusions drawn from your evidence far too incredulous to believe?

You might want to check out the book "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist". It makes the case much better than I can.

I'd be happy to read anything you can recommend that might influence me to your views. I really do like learning about this kind of stuff.

And once again...I don't claim to be right. I am just stating my opinion. Its not my job to try to change the way anyone else thinks. I don't have a problem stating my beliefs though.

 

[Modelworks]

Like Chrono said, bad scientists may do that. A true scientist would never do something like that.

It seems your trying to undermine science. Hopefully, this isn't true.

Not undermining science at all. I worked as an electrical engineer in research so I believe in science. What I am pointing out is that scientist are people. People that have the same flaws as everyone else. Many assume that when a scientist says something it is fact checked, proven, experiments documented, etc. Look at how many physicist in the world promoted Schon, nature and science magazine published his work , they considered him for the Nobel Prize in physics. The problem was science had gotten to the point where if a scientist said it, it must be true. The idea that scientist are only interested in truth and integrity without all the other human attributes is a false one, no such human exist.

 

[Jeff7]

Its called common sense. The fact that I can form a thought or exist at all is proof of an Intelligent Designer. I know how much code goes into each of our cells. I know that if one tiny bit of that code is off, we would be...well not us. But instead our DNA is exactly right and we exist.

The chances of that much code being exactly right without a Creator is about the same as me pooping out the Latin dictionary tonite.

Someone mentioned cancer - yeah, that's a flaw in DNA. It can't replicate properly, and the mutants it creates are so bad that they can kill us. That sounds like a pretty critical design flaw.
And let's not get (too far) into the other basic design flaws.
- We age. Basic exposure to the hostile environment of Earth erodes away at us until we eventually die as a result of it. Hello, this is Earth. Death is mandatory. You're welcome!
- Certain critical organs lack redundancy. Heart? That fails, you die in a few minutes. But you can live for many hours in the event of kidney failure. But we have two of them.
- Fatal afflictions can strike without warning, or else without warning that is of a magnitude which is proportional to the severity of the injury. And some can even be complete surprises. Heart attack - it might not even show signs of a problem until you arteries are almost completely blocked. Then suddenly you keel over and die. There's your warning. Aneurysm: Another fun one. A blood vessel just randomly in your brain, and then it makes itself well known when it blows up. Congratulations, you've just sustained what may very well be a life-threatening injury in an organ with limited regenerative properties, and which is (presently) fairly inoperable. Oops, just another one to add to the Errata Datasheet.

Also: Our DNA contains genetic code of an ancient virus. Did God get lazy and start copying some functions and subroutines here and there?

I still think that satan is going to spew out of it once they open up a wormhole to nirabu....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lt1Yo610lG0

"Satan's Stargate."

They could've gone with that, but noooo, we have "Stargate Universe."

 

[Poulsonator]

Why do you believe? What evidences have you studied to bring you to that conclusion?

Are those evidences observable, measurable, and repeatable? Is "god" the only possible explaination? Is "god" one of many possible explainations but one that is most reasonable because the other possible conclusions drawn from your evidence far too incredulous to believe?

Its called common sense. The fact that I can form a thought or exist at all is proof of an Intelligent Designer.

The typical 'just because' belief.

NSFW, I'm not knocking ya, just don't understand the common sense line. Obviously, common sense means something completely different to you than it does to me.

 

[darkswordsman17]

First off...I hate religion. Its just another form of man trying to control man.

I'm not going against science at all...am I? I don't claim to understand anything in this world fully. Anyone that does make that claim is either lying or a fool. I do a lot of research on this kind of thing. I love learning and don't preclude anything.

I do believe in God. I do believe that God created the universe and everything in it. I don't claim to understand how it all works though.

It wasn't aimed specifically at you, I've noticed most of the religious people pulling this after getting intellectually curb-stomped, at least the ones that had sense enough to understand how badly they got bitchslapped. They're patently refusing to actually go and study and learn, and are just giving up because they don't want to keep fighting when they know they have a weak argument. Some do, but intentionally limit themselves to only things that jive with what they want to believe, which very often has no actual backing beyond someone claiming it.

I can't say if you are going against science or not, but you seem to barely have a grasp on things, choosing to think about them philosophically in a manner that kinda contradicts proven science. Spreading ignorance can be every bit as harmful as outright lying.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Its called common sense.

Until the advent of quantum mechanics and relativity it was "common sense" that objects in the universe had definite and discrete locations in time and space.

Common sense is an extraordinarily unreliable judge of reality.

The fact that I can form a thought or exist at all is proof of an Intelligent Designer. I know how much code goes into each of our cells. I know that if one tiny bit of that code is off, we would be...well not us. But instead our DNA is exactly right and we exist.

The chances of that much code being exactly right without a Creator is about the same as me pooping out the Latin dictionary tonite.

First, there is no "exactly right code" in genetics. Moreover, you are effectively painting a target around a randomly vaulted arrow and then marveling at the extraordinary improbability of the arrow landing so precisely in the center. The arrow had to land somewhere. It is the same with evolution.

You think that the state of biological diversity was an ideal to which things strove, beating all odds along the way -- the target at which evolution's arrow was aimed. In reality, we are simply the place where the arrow happened to land. It could've landed elsewhere just as easily, and THAT state of affairs would be just as improbable as any.

 

[Modelworks]

They do? I must have missed the part where scientists murdered people because they didn't believe the same things as them?

How many did German scientist kill in experiments ? The only way someone could experiment on others is if they were able to judge them not like themselves , not sharing the same values.

You're right, religious people don't get pissed off. I'm sure Galileo would agree.

There lies the flaw in your thinking. You assume all religious people are the same. I don't assume all scientist or science is the same, there are plenty of people practicing junk science but that doesn't mean I think every scientist is a crackpot.

 

[darkswordsman17]

How many did German scientist kill in experiments ? The only way someone could experiment on others is if they were able to judge them not like themselves , not sharing the same values.




There lies the flaw in your thinking. You assume all religious people are the same. I don't assume all scientist or science is the same, there are plenty of people practicing junk science but that doesn't mean I think every scientist is a crackpot.

Yeah, because clearly anyone who is pro-science supported the Nazi concentration camp experiments. Want to talk about flaws in thinking. Not to mention, they weren't killing them because the people disagreed with their scientific views. That is the point I'm making. Plenty have been killed trying to further science, plenty not willingly, but you're ridiculous if you claim that by supporting science someone supports that. When scientists disagree, they have a nerd fight. Religious people have a track record of escalating it to killing someone because they disagreed.

I made no assumption about all religious people being the same. You said religious people don't get pissed off against people promoting science. I just cited an example where that clearly was not the case. In fact it is you assuming that I'm not fully aware that the average religious person is not this way.

 

[rudeguy]

This thread has gone completely sideways.

Someone please post pics of hardons colliding so we can get back on track.

 

[dguy6789]

Its called common sense. The fact that I can form a thought or exist at all is proof of an Intelligent Designer. I know how much code goes into each of our cells. I know that if one tiny bit of that code is off, we would be...well not us. But instead our DNA is exactly right and we exist.

The chances of that much code being exactly right without a Creator is about the same as me pooping out the Latin dictionary tonite.

Because you can think thoughts, that means there is a god? That seems like an incredibly huge and baseless leap of faith to me. I do not understand that reasoning at all. Can you explain that to me point by point?

You do realize that there is absolutely nothing random about how we came about right? Complexity does not in any way even begin to support the idea that there is a god(or that it couldn't have been evolution). This is a big issue that many religious people don't seem to understand, as anyone who has a grasp on what evolution is understands that the human(or anything for that matter) being complex is completely and totally accounted for in the theory.

To date, since the dawn of man, not one person has ever given one piece of evidence or proof to support the idea that a god exists. Feel free to have your own opinion, but don't ever say there's any kind of reasoning behind it, that's ridiculous(and misleading).

 

[Nik]

You might want to check out the book "I don't have enough faith to be an atheist". It makes the case much better than I can.

I'd be happy to read anything you can recommend that might influence me to your views. I really do like learning about this kind of stuff.

And once again...I don't claim to be right. I am just stating my opinion. Its not my job to try to change the way anyone else thinks. I don't have a problem stating my beliefs though.

You didn't answer my question. I'm asking you why you believe what you believe.

Also, I'm not an atheist.