Question about "sport shifting"

[gopunk]

some cars have this "sport shift" thing where it's automatic transmission, but you can still put the car in different gears. is the only difference between this and stick shift, the lack of a clutch? it seems to me this would offer the same amount of control as a stick shift...

thanks!

 

[Mill]

It doesn't at all.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Millennium
It doesn't at all.

what doesn't do what at all? i have no clue what you're referring to.

 

[notfred]

Originally posted by: gopunk
some cars have this "sport shift" thing where it's automatic transmission, but you can still put the car in different gears. is the only difference between this and stick shift, the lack of a clutch? it seems to me this would offer the same amount of control as a stick shift...

thanks!

Have you driven a stick shift? The clutch is what gives you most of the control you don't get in an auto.

 

[atom]

The lack of a clutch is a pretty big difference. And most if not all sport shifts will still shift for you no matter what (not counting SMG type drivetrains).

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: gopunk
some cars have this "sport shift" thing where it's automatic transmission, but you can still put the car in different gears. is the only difference between this and stick shift, the lack of a clutch? it seems to me this would offer the same amount of control as a stick shift...

thanks!

Have you driven a stick shift? The clutch is what gives you most of the control you don't get in an auto.

i tried to once, but i didn't get the hang of it.... i thought the clutch is just a pedal you use to change gears?

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium
It doesn't at all.

what doesn't do what at all? i have no clue what you're referring to.

It doesn't give you the same amount of control or drive ability at all. As notfred mentioned, the clutch is where you get most of your control, the ability to rev-match, etc.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: notfred

Originally posted by: gopunk
some cars have this "sport shift" thing where it's automatic transmission, but you can still put the car in different gears. is the only difference between this and stick shift, the lack of a clutch? it seems to me this would offer the same amount of control as a stick shift...

thanks!

Have you driven a stick shift? The clutch is what gives you most of the control you don't get in an auto.

i tried to once, but i didn't get the hang of it.... i thought the clutch is just a pedal you use to change gears?

Eh....

 

[Skawttey]

sport shift cars have the exact same mechanicals of an automatic trans, so you still get the same power loss as with an auto trans as compared with a manual. the only difference is that instead of the computer telling the trans when to shift, you are telling the computer to tell the trans when to shift. Now SMG gear boxes are a whole other story though...

 

[boyRacer]

Lots of car threads tonight... I like it...

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium
It doesn't at all.

what doesn't do what at all? i have no clue what you're referring to.

It doesn't give you the same amount of control or drive ability at all. As notfred mentioned, the clutch is where you get most of your control, the ability to rev-match, etc.

could you elaborate on exactly how the clutch gives you control in layman's terms... what's rev-matching?

 

[Actaeon]

I think I have an idea what you're talking about. I currently drive a Saturn 97' SC2 Automatic. I believe 1991-1997 Saturn included a switch for the automatic transmission. Performance and Normal mode. In normal mode, the car drives regularly, doesnt downshift unless you throw the gas pedal all the way down, and it shifts at 6k rpm (redline @ 6.5k). The performance mode, its a bit more "touchy", start to put the gas pedal at 50%, it'd down shift so you can accelerate faster. It'd also get up to 6.5k RPM (refline) before shifting to next gear. Burns a bit more gas in performance (because you're usually running at a higher RPM when driving), probally around 2-3 MPG less.

Link

 

[Rallispec]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium
It doesn't at all.

what doesn't do what at all? i have no clue what you're referring to.

It doesn't give you the same amount of control or drive ability at all. As notfred mentioned, the clutch is where you get most of your control, the ability to rev-match, etc.

could you elaborate on exactly how the clutch gives you control in layman's terms... what's rev-matching?

when you press on the clutch, it disengages the engine so that you can press the gas pedle and make the engine rev, without putting power to the wheels. .. this is nice when downshifting, so that the engine is spinning the right speed when you shift into a lower gear. someone else can probably explain better though

 

[Mill]

Pretty basic idea of how a clutch works and why it is needed.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: gopunk

could you elaborate on exactly how the clutch gives you control in layman's terms... what's rev-matching?

Learn to drive a manual transmission and all will become clear to you.

Edit: Woah... automatic transmission that doesn't shift until 6000 rpm? I thought they shifted way lower than that

 

[notfred]

You can't feather the clutch from a 3000 rpm launch in an auto, regardless of whether you tell it when to shift or the computer does. With no clutch, the tranny is either in gear, or it's not. With a clutch you get to take advantage of the in between space where the transmission is partially connected to the engine. It's also a lot more useable for revving the car w/o the wheels engaged than momentarily dropping the car to neutral like you'd have to do in an auto.

Note that this doesn't mean a manual tranny is necessarily going to launch better than an auto.

 

[ElFenix]

sport shift is merely a computer controlled automatic transmission that lets you pick from a couple of gears, but the computer still has full control over the transmission and you still get the slushbox power loss, which is generally more than a manual.

there is such a thing as a sequential manual, aka semiautomatic, which is a manual transmission that has a computer operated clutch that allows it to shift in thousandths of a second instead of tenths like a regular manual.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: gopunk

could you elaborate on exactly how the clutch gives you control in layman's terms... what's rev-matching?

Learn to drive a manual transmission and all will become clear to you.

Edit: Woah... automatic transmission that doesn't shift until 6000 rpm? I thought they shifted way lower than that

umm... any regular auto will shift at the engine's redline if you floor it...

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: gopunk

could you elaborate on exactly how the clutch gives you control in layman's terms... what's rev-matching?

Learn to drive a manual transmission and all will become clear to you.

Edit: Woah... automatic transmission that doesn't shift until 6000 rpm? I thought they shifted way lower than that

Umm... there are autos that can shift at 10k. Mine shifts at 6200.

 

[Actaeon]

Originally posted by: mugsywwiii

Originally posted by: gopunk

could you elaborate on exactly how the clutch gives you control in layman's terms... what's rev-matching?

Learn to drive a manual transmission and all will become clear to you.

Edit: Woah... automatic transmission that doesn't shift until 6000 rpm? I thought they shifted way lower than that

Well... lemme re-state, I think you read it wrong.

In Norm and Performance mode, they both shift according to how much trottle you got. At 100%, the Normal mode shifts at 6k, in Performance, 6.5k.

If its 50% or whatever, the Normal might shift at 3k, while the performance might go to 4k (just imaginary figures). I was just explaining the differences in driving between the two tranmission settings in my particular car.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Millennium
Pretty basic idea of how a clutch works and why it is needed.

thanks for the link.... i still have a few questions though.... where does the gear changing come into play? is the amount of slippage based on how fast you push the clutch down? and what is rev-matching?

 

[Skawttey]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium
Pretty basic idea of how a clutch works and why it is needed.

thanks for the link.... i still have a few questions though.... where does the gear changing come into play? is the amount of slippage based on how fast you push the clutch down? and what is rev-matching?

you shift gears with the shifter while you are pressing down the clutch. The amount of slippage is based on how far, now how fast, the clutch is depressed. Like someone said above, the best way to learn about manual transmissions is to learn to drive one. You can read everything about them, but you will not completely understand until you know how to drive one.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: notfred
You can't feather the clutch from a 3000 rpm launch in an auto, regardless of whether you tell it when to shift or the computer does. With no clutch, the tranny is either in gear, or it's not. With a clutch you get to take advantage of the in between space where the transmission is partially connected to the engine. It's also a lot more useable for revving the car w/o the wheels engaged than momentarily dropping the car to neutral like you'd have to do in an auto.

Note that this doesn't mean a manual tranny is necessarily going to launch better than an auto.

is feathering another term for making it so that the transmission is only partially connected to the engine? and all i know about clutches is from that link posted earlier, but wouldn't doing that wear down your clutch?

 

[Cyberian]

Originally posted by: notfred
You can't feather the clutch from a 3000 rpm launch in an auto, regardless of whether you tell it when to shift or the computer does. With no clutch, the tranny is either in gear, or it's not. With a clutch you get to take advantage of the in between space where the transmission is partially connected to the engine. It's also a lot more useable for revving the car w/o the wheels engaged than momentarily dropping the car to neutral like you'd have to do in an auto.

Note that this doesn't mean a manual tranny is necessarily going to launch better than an auto.

You may find this hard to believe, but not everyone is bustin' their ass trying to get 0-60 times under 6 seconds.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium
Pretty basic idea of how a clutch works and why it is needed.

thanks for the link.... i still have a few questions though.... where does the gear changing come into play? is the amount of slippage based on how fast you push the clutch down? and what is rev-matching?

the clutch is a couple of plates held together by, say, a spring. as you push on the clutch pedal you're putting force opposite the spring's force, which decreases the friction between the plates. since theres less friction less force can be transmitted through it, until eventually the plates aren't touching and no force is transmitted. so, if you remained in the state between where the clutch pedal wasn't pushed at all and where the plates are disengaged you'd be slipping the whole time. you'd also quickly wear out your clutch. so, don't ride your clutch.