Question about SP2

[Link19]

Originally posted by: Lepard
Why don't you try slipstreaming SP2 onto your installation disc, backup any important files and folders, format and then reinstall Windows again?

Best solution!! I always slipstream a service pack and install it fresh on all my computers. I never apply a service pack update to an existing installation. It works much better when a major update is integrated as part of the installation rather than installing a major update on top of an existing installation.

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: stash
Support for XP SP1 will end on October 10, 2006. http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifean19

That will be the major difference between a fully patched XP SP1 system and a fully patched Windows 2000 SP4 system. After Oct 10, there will be no more security updates made available for XP SP1.

Install SP2.

SP2 can take advantage of the NX-bit support on modern CPUs, so there's another benefit that proved its merit in the zero-day WMF Exploit attacks a while back (for those who'd fully enabled it, anyway). If your system is messed-up enough that it won't take an SP2 installation at this point, maybe you want to back up your stuff, run the Files & Settings Transfer Wizard, and start from the top?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Canterwood
Ouch!!! Thats a whole load of businesses gone down the can then.

But then in reality its Microsoft who are the irresponsible ones for not putting out a SP5 for Win2K with the enhanced security updates that XP SP2 had.

Yes, most businesses are irresponsible. Microsoft shouldn't be releasing any more updates to win2k. It's been a half dozen years since XP came out, UPGRADE ALREADY. Hell, move to a system that takes security more seriously.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Neos
To me that is not a biggie, as I have never been one to download patches too much anyway.

Thanks for the advice and help. Everyone.

That's just scary.

 

[Neos]

Slipstreaming sounds good. I will give it a shot. It is about time for a re-install, and since I have the OS on it's own partition - it won't be too bad.

Thanks all.

 

[Canterwood]

[Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
UPGRADE ALREADY.

NO! GET OVER IT ALREADY! :roll:

2K does what I need it to.
Getting XP would be a waste of money, especially with Vista being just around the corner.
Like I said, my 2K box is more secure than 80% of the general public's who use XP SP2, especially the irresponsible idiots who are still using Internet Explorer.
The ammount of PC's we have to clear of spyware and viruses at work is testament to that.

Hell, move to a system that takes security more seriously.

I'll switch to Linux when I'm good and ready thanks. 🙂

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Canterwood

[Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
UPGRADE ALREADY.

NO! GET OVER IT ALREADY! :roll:

2K does what I need it to.
Getting XP would be a waste of money, especially with Vista being just around the corner.
Like I said, my 2K box is more secure than 80% of the general public's who use XP SP2, especially the irresponsible idiots who are still using Internet Explorer.
The ammount of PC's we have to clear of spyware and viruses at work is testament to that.

Sounds like the admins need to be smacked.

Comparing Win2k sp4 and XP sp2 is apples to oranges.

Hell, move to a system that takes security more seriously.

I'll switch to Linux when I'm good and ready thanks. 🙂

Who said anything about Linux?

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Neos
Now that I am back to SP1 - am I at risk? Have I been living a dream - thinking I was secure?

Yes.

Could you check this key and post your results.

hklm\software\microsoft\windows nt\currentversion\winlogon\shell.

 

[Canterwood]

[Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Sounds like the admins need to be smacked.

Lol, admins?
I'm talking about the general public.
Aka customers who've bought PC's from us and have got themselves riddled with spyware and viruses and then come whinging to us that the PC is broken.
Oh, but they're not irresponsible in your eyes cos they're using IE and XP SP2.

Comparing Win2k sp4 and XP sp2 is apples to oranges.

Eh? 😕 I'm not. I'm pointing out that security is as much to do with how the individual uses their PC than what OS its running.
Just because someone's not using XP SP2 doesn't make them irresponsible.

Who said anything about Linux?

I'd assumed you wouldn't be talking about Windows! :Q

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Canterwood
Oh, but they're not irresponsible in your eyes cos they're using IE and XP SP2.

I never said such a thing. I said it was irresponsible to use less than xp sp2. I never mentioned IE, and I never said using xp sp2 is all that is necessary to make you responsible.

Eh? 😕 I'm not. I'm pointing out that security is as much to do with how the individual uses their PC than what OS its running.
Just because someone's not using XP SP2 doesn't make them irresponsible.

You're right. They could be using something better. Using XP sp1 is irresponsible. There's no way around it.

Using Win2k sp3 is irresponsible.

I'd assumed you wouldn't be talking about Windows! :Q

You assumed correctly, but I also didn't necessarily mean Linux. There are more OSes out there than Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. 🙂

 

[networkman]

There are some limited instances where using an older Service Pack is a necessity, such as when using Windows 2000 Server and a Unity VoIP phone system - there are currently certain incompatibilities with 2000's SP4 and the Unity software, so we've had to do some manual tweaking to make them work.

Exceptions aside, everyone should be patched current regardless of what OS you're running. Saying that everyone should upgrade to XP SP2 "just because" is a whole lot different when instead of one PC at home, you're talking about hundreds of machines in the enterprise, and the associated costs along with it.

That said, my work(library system) have moved all 300 of our public machines to XP SP2 and are in the next month will have the 240+ staff machines moved over to XP SP2 as well(from Win2K SP4).

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: networkman
There are some limited instances where using an older Service Pack is a necessity, such as when using Windows 2000 Server and a Unity VoIP phone system - there are currently certain incompatibilities with 2000's SP4 and the Unity software, so we've had to do some manual tweaking to make them work.

Exceptions aside, everyone should be patched current regardless of what OS you're running. Saying that everyone should upgrade to XP SP2 "just because" is a whole lot different when instead of one PC at home, you're talking about hundreds of machines in the enterprise, and the associated costs along with it.

That said, my work(library system) have moved all 300 of our public machines to XP SP2 and are in the next month will have the 240+ staff machines moved over to XP SP2 as well(from Win2K SP4).

If you have software that will not run on a fully patched system, it's time to get a new vendor. They aren't doing their job.

 

[networkman]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: networkman
There are some limited instances where using an older Service Pack is a necessity, such as when using Windows 2000 Server and a Unity VoIP phone system - there are currently certain incompatibilities with 2000's SP4 and the Unity software, so we've had to do some manual tweaking to make them work.

Exceptions aside, everyone should be patched current regardless of what OS you're running. Saying that everyone should upgrade to XP SP2 "just because" is a whole lot different when instead of one PC at home, you're talking about hundreds of machines in the enterprise, and the associated costs along with it.

That said, my work(library system) have moved all 300 of our public machines to XP SP2 and are in the next month will have the 240+ staff machines moved over to XP SP2 as well(from Win2K SP4).

If you have software that will not run on a fully patched system, it's time to get a new vendor. They aren't doing their job.

Easy to say, not so easy to do. Plus the fault for the issue is not on the vendor's side - it is a known issue with SP4 on Microsoft's side and has been since SP4 was released - Microsoft has yet to provide a solution.

 

[Canterwood]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
Using XP sp1 is irresponsible. There's no way around it.

I disagree.
Its still a supported OS (for now) and fully patched and in the hands of a capable user shouldn't be a problem.

Using Win2k sp3 is irresponsible.

I'd agree here.
Its no longer supported and not receiving any critical security updates, so users would be at risk.

However you earlier implied using Win2k in general was irresponsible and shouldn't be connected to the internet, which I'd again disagree with so long as it was patched fully.

You assumed correctly, but I also didn't necessarily mean Linux. There are more OSes out there than Windows, Mac OS X, and Linux. 🙂

Indeed. 🙂

 

[Neos]

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: Neos
Now that I am back to SP1 - am I at risk? Have I been living a dream - thinking I was secure?

Yes.

Could you check this key and post your results.

hklm\software\microsoft\windows nt\currentversion\winlogon\shell.

Went there, but I am not sure what you want me to do. ??

 

[mechBgon]

especially the irresponsible idiots who are still using Internet Explorer.
The ammount of PC's we have to clear of spyware and viruses at work is testament to that.

Considering the amount of security vulnerabilities they keep finding in FireFox, I hope you're branding the FireFox users as irresponsible idiots too 🙂 And of course Little Johnny can download and install Kazaa from any web browser, and you know what the result is.

Right answer: user education and non-Admin accounts for daily-driver stuff, plus keep stuff patched and use at least basic security software.

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: Canterwood

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
sp2 is necessary. Anything less is irresponsible.

A fully patched XP SP1 box would be pretty much equivalent to a fully patched Win2K SP4 box.

So are we to assume using Windows 2000 is irresponsible too?

mmm, that's some nutbag logic ya got there.

A fully patched XP sp1 box would be similar to a fully patch Win2k *SP3* box. It's still an apples to grapefruit comparison but at least you're all citrus tasting now.

It is not possible to add all available patches to a service pack in order to get yourself to the next service pack. Service packs are more than that.


To the original poster:
Problems applying a service pack are covered free of charge with MS support. Just call in for a paid incident but explain that the problem is with a service pack. They'll give you a grace case and get you through to pro support.

Give these guys a call. I used to work on the team that did this support. There is a whole bag of tricks they have to troubleshoot sp issues.

 

[Canterwood]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
Considering the amount of security vulnerabilities they keep finding in FireFox, I hope you're branding the FireFox users as irresponsible idiots too 🙂

Heh. Less irresponsible idiots if you please. 🙂

Right answer: user education and non-Admin accounts for daily-driver stuff, plus keep stuff patched and use at least basic security software.

Yup.

Originally posted by: Smilin
A fully patched XP sp1 box would be similar to a fully patch Win2k *SP3* box. It's still an apples to grapefruit comparison but at least you're all citrus tasting now.

It is not possible to add all available patches to a service pack in order to get yourself to the next service pack. Service packs are more than that.

I was really refering to XP SP1 and Win2K SP4 being more or less the same due to neither having the kernel enhancements of XP SP2.
XP SP1, if all the patches have been installed to date (except SP2), should be as 'secure' as Win2K SP4.
XP Gold however would definately not be as its no longer supported.

I'm definately not anti SP2 by any means, but I don't really see a fully patched XP SP1 as any more a major security threat than Win2K SP4.
They're both long in the tooth, but are still currently supported by Microsoft.

 

[Nocturnal]

Originally posted by: joshharrington
SP2...well at least for me I had a friend that installed it. He restarted his machine and it would just constantly reboot. Safe mode, same thing. So we had to reformat his machine. That was awhile back, and I loaded SP2 on my computer and I didn't have any problems. I don't know of any issues with ZoneAlarm and SP2. One last thing is SP2 is alot of securty updates that may be needed, and maybe not. Personally I would say it's up to you, give it a shot and see if you like it. You should be able to uninstall it afterwards if you don't like it.

I've been loading SP2 on machines on a daily basis, some which were just cleaned from a spyware/viruses infection. I have not encountered any problems with constant rebooting which would require a format.

 

[Nocturnal]

If you're having problems installing SP2 in regular mode, download the network install file and reboot into safe mode. From there, run the executable. You shouldn't have any problems.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: Neos

Originally posted by: gsellis

Originally posted by: Neos
Now that I am back to SP1 - am I at risk? Have I been living a dream - thinking I was secure?

Yes.

Could you check this key and post your results.

hklm\software\microsoft\windows nt\currentversion\winlogon\shell.

Went there, but I am not sure what you want me to do. ??

Was the only thing in there "Explorer"?

 

[River Side]

i will only install SP2 when my games stop running and demand i have it.. simple..

for now SP1 lives on..

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: River Side
i will only install XP when my games stop running and demand i have it.. simple..

for now Windows ME lives on..

Fixed

 

[Nothinman]

i will only install SP2 when my games stop running and demand i have it.. simple..

That makes sense, wait for someone to actually break in before you fix locks that you know are broken.

 

[Neos]

Originally posted by: Smilin
To the original poster:
Problems applying a service pack are covered free of charge with MS support. Just call in for a paid incident but explain that the problem is with a service pack. They'll give you a grace case and get you through to pro support.

Give these guys a call. I used to work on the team that did this support. There is a whole bag of tricks they have to troubleshoot sp issues.

Good point. Will do when I load the OS again. It is time.
Thanks