Question: 2nd amendment and reactions

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Are you saying that people simply standing with weapons outside of a polling station is threatening, but someone simply standing with a weapon in other locations is not?

I agree with DVC, both can be considered threatening. Standing armed outside a polling station when there is no evidence that anyone is being harassed/threatened/whatever there is just being an asshole. Similarly, the people who walk around strapped with pistols and rifles on display are just being assholes as well.

Well that's great. If a group of people put on Klan outfits and carry weapons and stand armed outside a black polling place armed then we can say they are assholes too.

I don't remember. The guy in the first pic- What group of people does his leader say he want's dead? I missed that one.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,965
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Well that's great. If a group of people put on Klan outfits and carry weapons and stand armed outside a black polling place armed then we can say they are assholes too.

I don't remember. The guy in the first pic- What group of people does his leader say he want's dead? I missed that one.

Yes, if people put on Klan outfits and stood with weapons outside of a polling place they would be assholes. If someone not charged with security there who wasn't in a Klan outfit was standing with weapons outside a polling place they would also be an asshole.

That guy in the first picture is being a jackass, and he's doing it on purpose. Same with the guys in the second picture.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
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You may want to you know actually check stats out before you say something so retarded.

If you said handguns you may have a point, but you said assault rifles. Thus you're nothing but a fucking moron that obviously been drinking the media kool aid.

More people have been killed by billy clubs, bats, blunt objects than semi-auto rifles.
 

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Nov 30, 2010
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So you're saying if we took a poll of this forum on banning open carry, the number of respondents in favor of doing so would be negligible?

How about you stop being dramatic :) You don't need to go make a poll, but knock yourself out if you think it's going to make you feel better. All we are discussing is how idiotic for the dumbass cracker to walk around a JC Penney with an AR15 strapped to his back, because really, what is he accomplishing besides making people feel uncomfortable?

Oh one more thing, you should also make another poll that asks people which they'd be more intimidated by, an AR15 or a billy club.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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Yes, if people put on Klan outfits and stood with weapons outside of a polling place they would be assholes. If someone not charged with security there who wasn't in a Klan outfit was standing with weapons outside a polling place they would also be an asshole.

That guy in the first picture is being a jackass, and he's doing it on purpose. Same with the guys in the second picture.

In the first case he's an asshole. In the second case the assholes belong to a hate group. Now maybe you don't see beyond a gun, but we had a few threads during the last election cycle that claimed intimidation by republicans by their presence. I guess they are off the hook since they didn't have guns.

Hate to break it to you, but there is a difference. Should either have happened? No, but in the second case people were put in a place in which a Constitutionally sanctioned act of voting was occurring. It's hard to believe you can't see the difference, but if the eyes stop at the gun and see nothing further, then that's enough said I suppose.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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How about you stop being dramatic :) You don't need to go make a poll, but knock yourself out if you think it's going to make you feel better. All we are discussing is how idiotic for the dumbass cracker to walk around a JC Penney with an AR15 strapped to his back, because really, what is he accomplishing besides making people feel uncomfortable?

So he's an idiot. How does that equate to purposeful intimidation at the poll?
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
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How about you stop being dramatic :) You don't need to go make a poll, but knock yourself out if you think it's going to make you feel better. All we are discussing is how idiotic for the dumbass cracker to walk around a JC Penney with an AR15 strapped to his back, because really, what is he accomplishing besides making people feel uncomfortable?

Oh one more thing, you should also make another poll that asks people which they'd be more intimidated by, an AR15 or a billy club.

Sorry, I've been working the broader conversation about this in multiple threads, guess I let a little leak into this one.

Otherwise, I was responding to Don Vito who said a guy carrying an AR-15 was analogous to the WBC. A statement I didn't think was all that accurate.
 

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Nov 30, 2010
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So he's an idiot. How does that equate to purposeful intimidation at the poll?

I don't know, but a couple of black dudes at the poll waving their billy clubs and screaming at me to vote for Obama is going to make me giggle and probably have fun talking smack to them while I'm waiting in line, as oppose to being intimidated.

If I'm in JCP shopping and some skinhead looking dude walking around with an AR15 strapped to his back, I'll probably grab my kids and wife and quietly exit the store.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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I don't know, but a couple of black dudes at the poll waving their billy clubs and screaming at me to vote for Obama is going to make me giggle and probably have fun talking smack to them while I'm waiting in line, as oppose to being intimidated.

If I'm in JCP shopping and some skinhead looking dude walking around with an AR15 strapped to his back, I'll probably grab my kids and wife and quietly exit the store.

You and I might, but voter intimidation is a real thing. The second picture is from a Philadelphia site, and as pointed out a couple posts up the leader of that group called for the murder of whites. Not those who do bad things, but basically the death of them. In this context we have an idiot who apparently doesn't subscribe to the killing of anyone and a couple guys who following a leader calling for executions. It's really hard to make a serious comparison between the two. As I said earlier if the KKK decided to brandish weapons in front of a southern black polling place no one would say "hey, that's no different than that guy in the K-Mart", heck no, it would be national news. That a group of militant blacks who threaten to murder white babies makes it equivalent to Mr. AK-Mart makes no sense.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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I've got an answer. One pic has armed people guilty of belonging to an organization who's leader literally called on his 'people' to go into hospitals and murder white newborns.
The other pic is of a an armed guy guilty of looking for low, low prices.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/08/new-black-panthers-threaten-rnc-convention/

Those comments are disgusting if they were made, but I find no record of the actual recording other than descriptions of it on websites hostile to the NBPP. In any case I'm not convinced those comments are relevant to this discussion, since they were allegedly made years after that photo was taken, and thus would have nothing to do with whether someone would be threatened by the presence of those two NBPP members.
 

sigurros81

Platinum Member
Nov 30, 2010
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You and I might, but voter intimidation is a real thing. The second picture is from a Philadelphia site, and as pointed out a couple posts up the leader of that group called for the murder of whites. Not those who do bad things, but basically the death of them. In this context we have an idiot who apparently doesn't subscribe to the killing of anyone and a couple guys who following a leader calling for executions. It's really hard to make a serious comparison between the two. As I said earlier if the KKK decided to brandish weapons in front of a southern black polling place no one would say "hey, that's no different than that guy in the K-Mart", heck no, it would be national news. That a group of militant blacks who threaten to murder white babies makes it equivalent to Mr. AK-Mart makes no sense.

I guess it's neither here nor there but a voter who's intimidated by a couple of clowns acting the fool at a polling station don't deserve the privileged to vote, IMO. Extremism is a joke. Kind of like the Westburo Baptist fools, I don't know why people are still offended by them, let alone be intimidated.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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An important difference being that the WBC are intentionally setting out to disturb the peace. They get all up in your face, as close as they legally can, determined to make sure you hear them whether you want to or not.

Someone carrying a rifle in JC Penney is not adversarial if done right. He's just there, going about his business, and some people are freaking themselves out over a falsely perceived threat. The knowledge that people will freak out in this manner doesn't make it his responsibility.

For an analogous example, say I walk into Harlem, at night, wearing a KKK costume. I correspondingly get assaulted. Now one can argue that it was incredibly stupid for me to walk into Harlem wearing a KKK costume, but that does not make me responsible for the assault. That fault lies with the assailants.

Likewise it's not his fault that people are freaking out over his rifle, it's theirs. They could choose to ignore it, or notice it and then continue going about their business, but the mere fact that there's someone who visibly could threaten them freaks them out.

That's the crux of the issue as I see it. People want to feel safe and secure by whatever means. If you visibly violate that security, they freak out. This is despite the fact there are numerous ways to invisibly violate that security, ways many people encounter on a daily basis, but don't care about; because they aren't visible. At its core, freaking out over a slung rifle seems to me to be a simple matter of human irrationality, and irrational behavior should not be encouraged.

Again, though, where I part ways with you is your opinion that it would be "irrational" for someone who sees a civilian traipsing around a grocery store with a loaded AR-15 to feel threatened. I would suggest that it would be stupid not to at least be particularly careful upon seeing someone like that. Ignoring it would not only not be the "right" reaction, I think it would be an unwise and potentially dangerous reaction. If the law of a particular state makes open carry legal, then you're right that this is a problem for those who see the rifle-bearer, not his problem, but that doesn't mean his behavior isn't obnoxious. I would be completely pissed if my kids had a sleepless night just because this moron wanted to remind the world that he is proud Second Amendment advocate.
 

stormkroe

Golden Member
May 28, 2011
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Those comments are disgusting if they were made, but I find no record of the actual recording other than descriptions of it on websites hostile to the NBPP. In any case I'm not convinced those comments are relevant to this discussion, since they were allegedly made years after that photo was taken, and thus would have nothing to do with whether someone would be threatened by the presence of those two NBPP members.

I actually heard the radio broadcast where they say all those things, ill try to dig up a link. Yes, it was infuriating to hear. As far as the before or after, I just assumed that the 2nd pic was from the 2012 election which puts it well after the offending radio interview. Even if that pic IS from before the radio spot, I'm sure there are many like it from afterward.

Found it http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...keep-her-foot-on-motherfuing-necks-of-whites/
 
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Feb 10, 2000
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I actually heard the radio broadcast where they say all those things, ill try to dig up a link. Yes, it was infuriating to hear. As far as the before or after, I just assumed that the 2nd pic was from the 2012 election which puts it well after the offending radio interview. Even if that pic IS from before the radio spot, I'm sure there are many like it from afterward.

Found it http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...keep-her-foot-on-motherfuing-necks-of-whites/

That pic is from 2008, and I don't know of any similar armed NBPP folks at polling places in 2012. In any case I entirely agree that the NBPP are a bunch of assholes.

The volume on that video is mixed so low that I am scared to play it, lest I be deafened by a new email alert while it's on, but I will take your word for it that it includes the killing-babies language.
 
Feb 10, 2000
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That guy might be a cop working in civis

I can't imagine many cops working in civilian clothes who would be carrying a rifle in a department store. In any case, we know that is not the case.

From http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55649700-78/yorgason-carry-kelley-store.html.csp -

The rifle-toting shopper was later identified as 22-year-old Joseph Kelley. He revealed that he was carrying an unloaded AR-15 and the handgun was a loaded Glock 19C, according to The Salt Lake Tribune, adding that he is a firm believer in the Second Amendment.

He said he brought the guns to J.C. Penney to show that firearms are not dangerous in the hands of law-abiding citizens.

"I felt no negative vibes from anyone," Kelley told the Tribune. "I think it went rather surprisingly well."

He said he carries weapons with him in order to protect children and others from "criminals, cartels, drug lords" and other "evil men."