Quantum Break: More like Quantum Broken.

[airfathaaaaa]

UWP has nothing to do with anything you are quoting. Why are you trying to blame UWP for shitty Port?

Did people blame Win32 API and DX11 for sucking because of Arkham Knight?

so having an engine running on a very restrictive app layer that makes things worst by fact isnt to blame it?uwp is not steam tho they already have the next version of it on closed beta on some insiders that had a lot of "feedback" they say its actually a good step towards becoming something decent...not steam level good but still some basic thing we had since the 30s i guess they will return..

 

[Bacon1]

First line I wrote:

"The game is one unoptimized turd and on top of that is crippled by Microsoft's Windows 10 UWP platform:"

If you could toggle VSync and have CF/SLI support via UWP, it might have been better. Let's not defend MS's UWP either. It has a ton of issues on its own, widely documented; some of which are expected to be fixed around May but we'll see.

It was the part right after the bold - "crippled by Microsoft's Windows 10 UWP platform" which is what I was pointing out.

UWP does force borderless windowed mode yes, but not the vsync issues and other issues. You can also run SLI, just requires you to update the profile using NVInspector to point to the right running exe.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/c...he_tomb_raider_via_windows_store_xbox/czlrcf5

CFX / SLI are limited in DX12 and need to be implemented by the developer, you great implementation of that in Ashes.

so having an engine running on a very restrictive app layer that makes things worst by fact isnt to blame it?uwp is not steam tho they already have the next version of it on closed beta on some insiders that had a lot of "feedback" they say its actually a good step towards becoming something decent...not steam level good but still some basic thing we had since the 30s i guess they will return..

How is it very restrictive? The only thing it forces is windowless borderless mode (will be updated in May to allow exclusive fullscreen).

I run most of my games that way anyway, as I have multiple windows. No issues from that and no tearing.

Its not the cause of the halfing framerate or strange 5/6 capping issues, thats bad engine design or other developer related issues.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

vsync
sli/cf
borderless windows
encrypted exe denuvo style and because of that some automatic detection systems on the drivers are becoming wonky
its basicly a locked down framework which by definition is wrong in so many levels...

tho i hate to see those games going down i loved it but if it helps to destroy that cancer(uwp) its a small price to pay..

 

[TheRyuu]

UWP does force borderless windowed mode yes

How much of a performance degradation is it running it in borderless windowed mode in DX12 applications on Windows 10? I thought Microsoft change some stuff with regards to borderless windowed applications in Win10 (e.g. pseudo fullscreen but still actually borderless). I could be wrong though, maybe it's still less efficient but I swear they change some stuff regarding that in Win10.

 

[Bacon1]

How much of a performance degradation is it running it in borderless windowed mode in DX12 applications on Windows 10? I thought Microsoft change some stuff with regards to borderless windowed applications in Win10 (e.g. pseudo fullscreen but still actually borderless). I could be wrong though, maybe it's still less efficient but I swear they change some stuff regarding that in Win10.

I don't think there is much of a perf hit, I run every game @ 2560x1600 with a 290 windowed mode because I have side monitors I use and alt-tab a lot.

vsync
sli/cf
borderless windows
encrypted exe denuvo style and because of that some automatic detection systems on the drivers are becoming wonky
its basicly a locked down framework which by definition is wrong in so many levels...

tho i hate to see those games going down i loved it but if it helps to destroy that cancer(uwp) its a small price to pay..

SLI works - https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/c...he_tomb_raider_via_windows_store_xbox/czlrcf5

Overlays work - DXtory does with DX11 UWP apps.

Its not encrypted at all, its just a wrapper over your files.

Its safer for end users - no registry, no extra installers can be "bundled" like mcafee or ad/malware.

Uninstall is simple, no left over files / registry entries.

People have no idea what they are talking about regarding UWP. I've actually used it and developed for it, its much better and will be much better once the issues of fullscreen are resolved.

Issues with programs not being able to detect the software running just requires those programs to be updated to support it, its not difficult.

 

[Raduque]

People have no idea what they are talking about regarding UWP. I've actually used it and developed for it, its much better and will be much better once the issues of fullscreen are resolved.

So much this. The only real issue with UWP is forced vsync and forced borderless windowed mode.

Same people probably thought steam was junk, crap etc and wished it would die too, but now they sent their credit card to GabeN.

Haters gonna hate.

I'm unfortunately gonna skip QB, or get it on X1.

 

[Head1985]

 

[redzo]

People have no idea what they are talking about regarding UWP. I've actually used it and developed for it, its much better and will be much better once the issues of fullscreen are resolved.

Yes, right. Perhaps you could further explain this?

UWP is just a low ass cheap microsoft scheme to compete with steam in my opinion.

Microsoft probably pushed everybody involved in developing this game just to brag about a magical zero dx12 benefit to both the developer and the pc consumer. It's like the harder they try, the more they bury the precious dx12 brand they built. This is a fine example of how to screw up a PC game. And we are talking like this didn't happen tens of times before to others. More so, they are now pressured by delivering the dx12 promises. Don't compare this with the ordinary bad console game port! Explain to me more how come they(microsoft) aren't a bunch of idiots and how great UWP is, again, please!

 

[Bacon1]

Yes, right. Perhaps you could further explain this?

UWP is just a low ass cheap microsoft scheme to compete with steam in my opinion.

UWP compete with steam? What are you talking about?

UWP != Windows Store.

UWP is a better way to package files for better install/uninstall and no adware / other garbage installed.

Microsoft probably pushed everybody involved in developing this game just to brag about a magical zero dx12 benefit to both the developer and the pc consumer. It's like the harder they try, the more they bury the precious dx12 brand they built. This is a fine example of how to screw up a PC game. And we are talking like this didn't happen tens of times before to others. More so, they are now pressured by delivering the dx12 promises. Don't compare this with the ordinary bad console game port! Explain to me more how come they(microsoft) aren't a bunch of idiots and how great UWP is, again, please!

This game wasn't even going to be on PC, they probably spent a few hours porting it over considering there are lots of issues and no quit button in the menu (you close by hovering mouse over title bar and hit "X").

Its a terrible port, but has nothing to do with it being on UWP. You don't even understand that Windows store isn't the same as UWP. UWP is how the program is created (code wrapper / runner) and windows store is the distribution method (not only one, just the one used for this game).

 

[Mahigan]

Hawaii never stops impressing... Simply wow.

 

[airfathaaaaa]

I don't think there is much of a perf hit, I run every game @ 2560x1600 with a 290 windowed mode because I have side monitors I use and alt-tab a lot.



SLI works - https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/c...he_tomb_raider_via_windows_store_xbox/czlrcf5

Overlays work - DXtory does with DX11 UWP apps.

Its not encrypted at all, its just a wrapper over your files.

Its safer for end users - no registry, no extra installers can be "bundled" like mcafee or ad/malware.

Uninstall is simple, no left over files / registry entries.

People have no idea what they are talking about regarding UWP. I've actually used it and developed for it, its much better and will be much better once the issues of fullscreen are resolved.

Issues with programs not being able to detect the software running just requires those programs to be updated to support it, its not difficult.

sli on its current state isnt supported by the store workarounds last time i checked isnt the same as official support
how it works? can you find the .exe and inject them into steam? last time i checked(yesterday) you couldnt

if its a secure app(and they are) it makes use of Credential Locker which by definition encrypts it

 

[Bacon1]

sli on its current state isnt supported by the store workarounds last time i checked isnt the same as official support
how it works? can you find the .exe and inject them into steam? last time i checked(yesterday) you couldnt

if its a secure app(and they are) it makes use of Credential Locker which by definition encrypts it

I showed how SLI works, again its an issue of the current software not finding the running application. Thats why they had to manually find it with nvinspector and then ta-da, it works fine.

You can launch them from steam, but its due to steam limitations for why you can't launch them directly.

You can pipe them through explorer.exe though, such as "explorer.exe minecraft:" will launch windows 10 minecraft edition.

You can view all of the application files under the windowsapps folder in program files.

 

[AtenRa]

Hawaii never stops impressing... Simply wow.

hell look at the 7970GE vs GTX680, i would really like to know if this is due to AC or simple console(GCN) optimization from the developer for the XBone.

 

[ThatBuzzkiller]

hell look at the 7970GE vs GTX680, i would really like to know if this is due to AC or simple console(GCN) optimization from the developer for the XBone.

Remedy didn't mention any async compute usage when porting to PC so it is most likely the console effect ...

 

[Bacon1]

Remedy didn't mention any async compute usage when porting to PC so it is most likely the console effect ...

I'm guessing they are using async compute on XB1 for lighting, I'd see no reason for them to remove it for the PC port when it seems they took very little time porting it.

 

[RussianSensation]

Hawaii never stops impressing... Simply wow.

But also surprising how bad the scaling is from 2560 SP 390 to the 3584/4096 Fiji cards. At the same time the performance growth in some newer titles between 290X/390X vs. 7970Ghz/R9 380X is huge. For example, Hitman, Doom Beta, the Division. In some of those cases, a 290X actually beats HD7990.

Amazing what AMD did with Hawaii by adding 8 ACEs, 512-bit controller, increasing TMUs/SPs by 37.5%, and doubling the ROPs by increasing the die size from ~ 365mm2 to 438mm2. Yet, going from 438mm2 to 596mm2, despite saving die space by crippling FP64 to 1/16th and using more efficient HBM1 controller results in barely 20-30% more performance, sometimes barely 10-15% more.

Even comparing 390 to Fury X @ 4K shows shockingly bad scaling on TPU charts considering the latter has 68% more shading and texture performance on-paper.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

Amazing what AMD did with Hawaii by adding 8 ACEs, 512-bit controller, increasing TMUs/SPs by 37.5%, and doubling the ROPs by increasing the die size from ~ 365mm2 to 438mm2. Yet, going from 438mm2 to 596mm2, despite saving die space by crippling FP64 to 1/16th and using more efficient HBM1 controller results in barely 20-30% more performance, sometimes barely 10-15% more.

It's a lot more efficient though. Too bad you can't turn those efficiency gains into higher clocks, at least so it seems.

 

[3DVagabond]

hell look at the 7970GE vs GTX680, i would really like to know if this is due to AC or simple console(GCN) optimization from the developer for the XBone.

The nVidia dilligaf effect.

 

[kondziowy]

Look at 770 vs 750ti

960 2GB 35 fps
770 2GB 21,9 fps
750Ti 2GB 20,9fps

Dedicated to those saying Kepler is not gimped. Only GK110 holds on (Hyper Q? or what).
x70 series from Nvidia is gimped by design since 2012. 970 once again with fake 4GB.
http://pclab.pl/art69148-6.html

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

People have no idea what they are talking about regarding UWP. I've actually used it and developed for it, its much better and will be much better once the issues of fullscreen are resolved.

If you did, do tell us how it's better than the current .exe framework. Mind you, given the nature of this forum, saving tech illiterates from themselves is not an argument in favour of UWP.

 

[IllogicalGlory]

Very nice showing from Tonga up there in the pclab results. 380X 20% faster than 280X.

 

[RussianSensation]

Very nice showing from Tonga up there in the pclab results. 380X 20% faster than 280X.

That's a good observation. This cannot be easily explained unless the game was coded to favour GCN 1.1 and/or took advantage of Tonga's 8 ACE compute units.

Look at 770 vs 750ti

960 2GB 35 fps
770 2GB 21,9 fps
750Ti 2GB 20,9fps

Dedicated to those saying Kepler is not gimped. Only GK110 holds on (Hyper Q? or what).
x70 series from Nvidia is gimped by design since 2012. 970 once again with fake 4GB.
http://pclab.pl/art69148-6.html

It could be that 2GB of VRAM is also hammering 680/770 vs. 4GB on the 960. Looking at R9 380X and 970 and comparing them to 780Ti though clearly highlights that without optimized drivers, Kepler falls apart. We saw this already with Project CARS, the Witcher 3, etc.

Take a look at this. Dark Souls 3 uses an outdated game engine with no focus on modern compute features or anything modern really.

780Ti performs above 970 and on par with 290X; 770 hangs with 280X/380X easily.

Now we move on to recent modern games.

780Ti < 970 < 290X

780Ti < 970 < 290X

780Ti < 970 < 290X

Cards like 670/680/770 are just paperweights now compared to 7970. Nuts.

When 970 launched, it tied a reference 290X at 1440P and 780Ti was ahead of both by 10%.

108% 780Ti vs. 98% 290X / 98% 970

Whether Kepler got purposely gimped by drivers or the architecture just fell apart or a combination of both is hard to prove. Yet, the conclusion is completely the same = Kepler architecture started slowing falling apart in more modern games to the point where it can be concluded without a doubt that both HD7000 series and R9 200 series won the GTX600 and GTX700 generations as far as overall performance goes for those generations. This reminds me of GTX7800/7900 series vs. X1900/X1950XTX series. During their generation it was fairly close but as shader intensive modern games came out, 7800/7900 series couldn't keep up at all. Once you add pricing into the equation, Kepler architecture starts to look awful. ($400 7970 vs. $500 680, $300 7950 vs. $400 670, $380-450 770 2-4GB vs. $300 280X, $400 290X vs. $500-$650 780, $550 290X vs. $700 780Ti, etc.).

I guess for people who keep their GPUs for 2 years or less and care more about winning Unigine and 3DMark scores on leader boards/forums this didn't matter but some gamers use their GPUs for 3-4 years.

 

[Silverforce11]

Very nice showing from Tonga up there in the pclab results. 380X 20% faster than 280X.

Would only happen if excessive Tessellation is in play or lots of Async Compute, due to the 8 x 8 ACEs vs 2x2 ACEs in Tahiti.

Since its a Xbone port and not sponsored by NV, it's definitely not excessive Tessellation.

 

[raghu78]

AMD GPUs like Hawaii, Tahiti are impressive. But unfortunately all of this has not helped AMD financially. Kepler outsold HD 7000/R9 series and Maxwell destroyed AMD's market share. AMD needs to execute with Polaris and gain back market share. Thats whats going to matter in the long run.

 

[Bacon1]

If you did, do tell us how it's better than the current .exe framework. Mind you, given the nature of this forum, saving tech illiterates from themselves is not an argument in favour of UWP.

Its a benefit for the 95% of the community, not the super tech savy users who stay away from shady sites.

However there are many gamers who do have malware installed, even tech savy ones.

Anyway, the bad news is that the vast VAST majority of crashes are being caused by third party programs inserting themselves into the game's process. This isn't an issue on DirectX 11 but on DirectX 12, it's a big deal (and very very annoying).

We're working with Microsoft on this issue as there's not much we can do. DirectX 12 just doesn't like other programs being in the process. The most common ones are video streaming apps. After that, third-party overlays. And after that, I kid you not, malware. The data we get is anonymous so we have no way to contact the person to tell them their computer is infected. But a startling percentage of players have malware in their processes.

http://forums.ashesofthesingularity.com/476018

Also portable applications = use same software on multiple devices as well as simple install / uninstall with no leftovers anywhere on the computer. Also they can't harm other applications unless you specifically give it permission to do so. Current Win32 can trash your computer if it wants, it is very insecure and you are just trusting that the developer isn't using your computer as a botnet.

Even steam has had malware on it.

http://steamed.kotaku.com/warning-scammers-are-hiding-malware-behind-fake-steam-1696247784

and again

http://powerupgaming.co.uk/2015/09/...nlight-game-dynostopia-to-distribute-malware/