Quantum Break: More like Quantum Broken.

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Feb 19, 2009
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This is the updated result from Computerbase.de

Dunno how other sites are arriving at their avg/min, because UWP and DX12 doesn't work with FCAT or FRAPs.

PresentMon spits out a frame time log and it needs to be charted for accuracy.

970:
6-630.1460013827.png


390:
4-630.1460013834.png


A thick line indicates constant flip up and down of the frametime, thus the avg FPS will be in the middle of that flip, for frametime ms -> fps calculations.

Example, the 970 on a 60hz monitor flips between 18ms and 36ms. Avg of 27ms = 37 FPS.

The 390 on a 60hz monitor flips between 18 and 36ms as well, but spends most of it's time at 18ms. Thus the average is much less than (18+36)/2, probably closer to 20ms = 50 FPS.

Oh a 144hz monitor, the result is different.

The 970 spends more time at 22ms (45fps), but it dips below that to 14ms (above 60 fps), and to 28ms (35fps) and even 36ms (27fps) and even 52ms (19fps).

Basically its all over the place.

The 390 is ~avg 16ms on 144hz monitor, or ~60fps.

The point here is to becareful with avg/min charts because that's not how it's done anymore in DX12 for games that don't have built-in FCAT support.

---------------------------------

For interest, guess the avg fps for these GPUs. :)

380:

2-630.1460013812.png


960:

5-630.1460013803.png


Fury X:

3-630.1460013854.png


980Ti:

1-630.1459957133.png


^ For those who guessed it, the AVG of Fury X is ~62 FPS, while 980Ti is ~55 FPS. It is in-line with the results from GameGPU.Ru...
 
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desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
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In short all games which are focusing on DX12 has been beyond failed.

ATOS non selling, Hitman non selling, GOW U, and now QB.

I said it again DX12 will not adopt until max PC users are able to use it. Right now only less then 10% of PC users can take advantage of DX12 in a proper way. Moreover, Rise of The Tomb Raider is a perfect example how they got good sales and after thought DX12.

Developers do not care about DX12 or DX11 ,however, developers only care to get max profit and that profit comes from targeting majority not minority.
 

ThatBuzzkiller

Golden Member
Nov 14, 2014
1,120
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In short all games which are focusing on DX12 has been beyond failed.

ATOS non selling, Hitman non selling, GOW U, and now QB.

I said it again DX12 will not adopt until max PC users are able to use it. Right now only less then 10% of PC users can take advantage of DX12 in a proper way. Moreover, Rise of The Tomb Raider is a perfect example how they got good sales and after thought DX12.

Developers do not care about DX12 or DX11 ,however, developers only care to get max profit and that profit comes from targeting majority not minority.

Developers don't care which IHV has the highest marketshare ...

They will be equipped with whatever tools they can use then they'll hammer who ever they like including your favourite IHV ... ;)
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Developers do not care about DX12 or DX11 ,however, developers only care to get max profit and that profit comes from targeting majority not minority.

Consoles are the majority and the biggest profit.

That's why QB and GOW is on UWP where so few will even buy it. MS doesn't care. It will make heaps on the Xbone.

Hitman will sell just fine, when it's actually finished. :) Most comments you read, gamers are waiting til it's done to jump on board.

Ashes just started, they made it on the top selling list on Steam for a few days. Give it some time, for a niche RTS, if they can reach 250K units after a few months, that covers their cost for developing Nitrous (which is currently used for a few other games from Stardock). Think Sins of a Solar Empire sequels or Star Control remake. etc

Next month we can revisit this with Total War: Warhammer. I don't expect 390 = 980Ti OC, but probably 390X might = 980Ti stock. ;)
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
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Consoles are the majority and the biggest profit.

That's why QB and GOW is on UWP where so few will even buy it. MS doesn't care. It will make heaps on the Xbone.

Hitman will sell just fine, when it's actually finished. :) Most comments you read, gamers are waiting til it's done to jump on board.

Ashes just started, they made it on the top selling list on Steam for a few days. Give it some time, for a niche RTS, if they can reach 250K units after a few months, that covers their cost for developing Nitrous (which is currently used for a few other games from Stardock). Think Sins of a Solar Empire sequels or Star Control remake. etc

Next month we can revisit this with Total War: Warhammer. I don't expect 390 = 980Ti OC, but probably 390X might = 980Ti stock. ;)
you call selling 44000 copies top selling list?


There are many low budget games like ATOS launch last year and sold 10 times more better then that.

I grantee you that Warhammer will the same faith as Hitman and ATOS.
 

IEC

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Jun 10, 2004
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That's 44K copies through Steam in ~ 1 week, isn't it? That doesn't sound great, but it doesn't sound bad either considering it's also offered through Stardock, GOG, and GMG I'd assume.

Edit: Back on topic, QB at least looks playable on a high refresh rate monitor. Not so much on plain Jane 60Hz.
 
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desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
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That's 44K copies through Steam in ~ 1 week, isn't it? That doesn't sound great, but it doesn't sound bad either considering it's also offered through Stardock, GOG, and GMG I'd assume.

Edit: Back on topic, QB at least looks playable on a high refresh rate monitor. Not so much on plain Jane 60Hz.
Overall result since alpha stage to full release.

Hitman also had the same faith.
 

RussianSensation

Elite Member
Sep 5, 2003
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In short all games which are focusing on DX12 has been beyond failed.

ATOS non selling, Hitman non selling, GOW U, and now QB.

2 of those are MS UWP games with no SLI/CF support, VSync lock. I don't care if it's a DX9, 10, 11 or 12 game, I am not buying it for $60 USD ($80 CAD) from MS store and tying it to UWP with no CF support.

AoTS is a strategy game -- a rather niche market outside of Warhammer, Ages of Empire/Mythology, Starcraft and Company of Heroes, etc. You can bring out a very ambitious RTS game and it'll fail, doesn't matter if it's DX9, 10, 11 or 12. Seems you are making a broad assumption by tying in DX12 to why AoTS failed. Do you realize how loyal RTS fans are? A lot of them play older games like Supreme Commander or the Rise of Nations, etc.

Hitman is an episodic game. Again, I wouldn't pay $60 USD for it and then wait for months until the next episode is released. Episode 2 isn't even launching until April 26th. Not everyone wants to part with $60 USD to wait 6+ freaken months for the full game to come out. They essentially made Hitman 2016 an Early Access title and asked the full price for it.

I said it again DX12 will not adopt until max PC users are able to use it. Right now only less then 10% of PC users can take advantage of DX12 in a proper way. Moreover, Rise of The Tomb Raider is a perfect example how they got good sales and after thought DX12.

Rise of the Tomb Raider would easily be the best selling even if was DX9, 10 or 11 because it has the widest appeal of those games on the PC, no stupid episodic attachment of MS UWP tied to it. Not to mention, the Tomb Raider reboot sold extremely well so there is a massive userbase on the PC who was waiting for ROTTR.

Seems you aren't able to differentiate why certain games sell well and see to want to crap on DX12 for no reason. Frankly, the hardware specs requires to run Hitman are huge for the level of graphics. GOW and Quantum Break are straight up unoptimized console turds. GOW is what a 10 year old game made on an outdated game engine? It's not even GOW 4. Most people who wanted to play GOW already played it on the XBox 360. I don't know anyone who really wants to play a game and waits almost 10 years to play it? That's GOW right there.

Developers do not care about DX12 or DX11 ,however, developers only care to get max profit and that profit comes from targeting majority not minority.

Crysis 1 and then Ryse Son of Rome almost bankrupted Crytek. Both were cutting edge games that required very high level of GPU hardware to run them but most of the criticism attributed to them was wrt to gameplay and storyline. Games like Braid, Undertale, League of Legends, Rocket League, Heroes of the Storm, CS:Go don't look anything special and sold well: gameplay rules. So what are you saying that someone who makes a fun game that can be played on a onboard Intel/AMD graphics will sell more copies than a cutting edge DX12 game that needs a 980Ti to run well at 1080P? That's stating the obvious isn't.

I am not sure what your main point is here. Are you saying DX12 is a waste of time and that we need more powerful GPUs before it makes sense making DX12 games? Last time DX10 'replaced' DX9, early DX10 games ran like garbage. If everyone thought like you, what comes first the chicken or the egg? You need DX12 hardware for developers to start releasing DX12 games. Over time, hardware will get faster and DX12 games will differentiate themselves more from DX11 games. If this wasn't the case, we'd still be gaming on DX7.

Just because the early wave of DX12 games are turds, it doesn't mean the rest of 2016 DX12 games will be. Also, running some of those games like Hitman in DX11 still shows a big performance hit/high GPU requirements which suggests that many of these games aren't well optimized to begin with, regardless of the DX12 primary path.

I guarantee it that if Warcraft 4 or BF5 or Cyberpunk 2077 came out next month and had DX12 and Async Compute in spades, those games would sell millions of copies the first day. Those are literally the types of games PC builders/gamers will upgrade for. Who the hell is upgrading for GOW, Quantum Break or Hitman?

You seem to be so focused on trashing DX12 that you don't see the big picture that some of these games aren't going to sell well, because they aren't THAT good.
 
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book_ed

Member
Apr 8, 2016
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Crysis sold about 3 mil and Crysis Warhead about 1,5 mil, however the later ones didn't do that well. Its problems however (for 1st and Warhead), weren't a high end PC requirement (probably against common belief, but it was running fine on lower settings on a broad range of PCs), but the story and somewhat the gameplay. More so the game ended when the fun was just starting.

In general a game is criticized for high requirements only if it has higher requirements for what it offers and doesn't scale up or down with settings.

DX12 has nothing to do with the success of downfall of a game, except the situation you make a game far too complex and it was required to be on such an API, but you've put it on DX9, 10 or 11. There are a lot of games that did poorly on DX9,10,11, is that the API fault or the developers fault?

There were also great games on those APIs, but terrible from a technical point of view.
 
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Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
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The issue looks to be more with Microsoft and their garbage ports from XBONE to PC via the Windows store. All 3 titles released so far have been broken crap.

The first major showcase for DX12 will be Deus Ex in a couple months. I expect the DX12 flagship that blows us away will be Battlefield 5 which is releasing in Q4 of this year.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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The first major showcase for DX12 will be Deus Ex in a couple months. I expect the DX12 flagship that blows us away will be Battlefield 5 which is releasing in Q4 of this year.

Total War: Warhammer.

All the Let's Play gameplay vids are amazing, I'm a huge TW fan.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
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Total War: Warhammer.

All the Let's Play gameplay vids are amazing, I'm a huge TW fan.

You are going to play without DX12. After it got delayed for another month, everything DX12 related disappeared. It seems DX12 kills of games due to under funding and lack of time due to no extra allocation compared to previous.

Here is the latest specs in case you wonder:
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Specs
 
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desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
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You are going to play without DX12. After it got delayed for another month, everything DX12 related disappeared. It seems DX12 kills of games due to under funding and lack of time due to no extra allocation compared to previous.

Here is the latest specs in case you wonder:
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Specs

GTX 980=Fury X for this game on DX11. I grantee that these developers knows that DX11 is the main priority to sell their game to majority because they are not going for console. If they do not target majority then their is no back up like console sales to help them.
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
0
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The issue looks to be more with Microsoft and their garbage ports from XBONE to PC via the Windows store. All 3 titles released so far have been broken crap.

The first major showcase for DX12 will be Deus Ex in a couple months. I expect the DX12 flagship that blows us away will be Battlefield 5 which is releasing in Q4 of this year.
Dues EX is using nvidia tech as well now. That game will be big just like Rise of the Tomb Raider.
 

airfathaaaaa

Senior member
Feb 12, 2016
692
12
81
In short all games which are focusing on DX12 has been beyond failed.

ATOS non selling, Hitman non selling, GOW U, and now QB.

I said it again DX12 will not adopt until max PC users are able to use it. Right now only less then 10% of PC users can take advantage of DX12 in a proper way. Moreover, Rise of The Tomb Raider is a perfect example how they got good sales and after thought DX12.

Developers do not care about DX12 or DX11 ,however, developers only care to get max profit and that profit comes from targeting majority not minority.
well with your way of thinking batman should have broken all the sale records eh?D: eh?D: :D
you dont want to realise that ONLY solid games will sell well regardless of the tech no one will buy a 70 euros game just because it says "nvidia" on it only a fool would think like that
 
Feb 19, 2009
10,457
10
76
You are going to play without DX12. After it got delayed for another month, everything DX12 related disappeared. It seems DX12 kills of games due to under funding and lack of time due to no extra allocation compared to previous.

Here is the latest specs in case you wonder:
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Specs

Is that before or after they went on public in videos showcasing DX12 and hyping it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq3A2OiRfco <-- That's a lot of big guys at Creative Assembly/SEGA.

AMD is sponsoring DX12 for TW:WH.

When AMD sponsors it, it runs well. As we can see out of the DX12 games so far. In fact, AMD sponsored games have a long history of running well and relatively bug-free, compared to NV's GW.

So I got nothing to worry bout, I'll enjoy TW: Warhammer. :)
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
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Is that before or after they went on public in videos showcasing DX12 and hyping it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq3A2OiRfco <-- That's a lot of big guys at Creative Assembly/SEGA.

AMD is sponsoring DX12 for TW:WH.

When AMD sponsors it, it runs well. As we can see out of the DX12 games so far. In fact, AMD sponsored games have a long history of running well and relatively bug-free, compared to NV's GW.

So I got nothing to worry bout, I'll enjoy TW: Warhammer. :)

Then what happened with Hitman?
 

desprado

Golden Member
Jul 16, 2013
1,645
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well with your way of thinking batman should have broken all the sale records eh?D: eh?D: :D
you dont want to realise that ONLY solid games will sell well regardless of the tech no one will buy a 70 euros game just because it says "nvidia" on it only a fool would think like that
Batman Arkham Knight sold 2 times more then Hitman and ATOS combined on PC.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
146
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Is that before or after they went on public in videos showcasing DX12 and hyping it up?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq3A2OiRfco <-- That's a lot of big guys at Creative Assembly/SEGA.

AMD is sponsoring DX12 for TW:WH.

When AMD sponsors it, it runs well. As we can see out of the DX12 games so far. In fact, AMD sponsored games have a long history of running well and relatively bug-free, compared to NV's GW.

So I got nothing to worry bout, I'll enjoy TW: Warhammer. :)

Oh yes, the current AMD sponsored games are so bug free. Utter success all around. One disaster after the other.

Your video contains 3 managers. And what happened? 1 month delay already.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
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nvidia has any tech compartible with dx12? D:

Yes. I am assuming you are just trolling :)

Remember what Raja said? There is no cards yet that fully supports all DX12 features.

So if Nvidia doesn't have a DX12 card, then AMD doesn't either. And then I dont even mention the games that lack an Intel IGP DX12 path.