Question Qualcomm's first Nuvia based SoC - Hamoa

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moinmoin

moinmoin

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roger_k said:
In fact, it seems like what they did was to recreate their work at Apple.
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You put it like that is a bad thing. As @coercitiv wrote they were doing that on a budget and with distractions like lawsuits and having to ensure financing.

If anybody could get to Apple's level that quickly that would indeed be no feat. But does anybody?

Even Nuvia first had to get to that point by creating its cores from the ground up to not be liable to the accusations by Apple. They can't just copy what they were working on at Apple already. The concept and design stages are only half the battle, turning that into working layouts and performant silicon is the other half. So that's where Oryon supposedly is today, with the launch still in the future.

So your expectations are better served by future gens now that the base is set.

Now if that team stayed at Apple they likely would have advanced with way more daring changes in that same time, the base already existing and all. But Apple apparently put too little effort in retaining them. It's quite telling that they all thought leaving Apple to form a startup was worth the risk.
 
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moinmoin

moinmoin

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coercitiv said:
A wild snapdragon has appeared

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From the article:
"Regardless, the primary purpose of the Linux demo was to showcase that Linux was working on the Snapdragon Elite X as well – that it’s not just for Windows – as Qualcomm has aims of getting the SoC into Linux laptops as well."

That's music to my ears. Hope they do work on those driver warts and don't expect Linux users to be happy about fans running on full blast all the time.
 
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Thibsie

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roger_k said:
Yours is a fair take, and it sounds reasonable. It's just you know, I've been thinking about those charts published by Nuvia in 2020, with that big blue Phoenix rising above everything else, and yet it's three years later and they are only within the lower border of that (admittedly ambiguous) prediction. I suppose we will have to wait and see what they will come up with in the future.
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Well, they lost much time taking a server core and adapting it to QC uncore designed neither for servers nor smartphones.

If QC had wanted, they would have had their Nuvia IP on the market a lot faster alas, they insisted on bringing it to laptops (which it xas never deisnged for) rather than servers. Stupid. They could do servers first and iterate but no...

Somehow I fell QC acts with their between-the-legs thingies, not with their brain. Maybe they'll end like M$, killing everything they touch.
 
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Gideon

Gideon

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jpiniero said:
GB6 scores are nice... It's better than Phoenix HS.
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IMO the Cinebench 24 is a lot more impressive as it's a much more taxing MT test.

I just ran it on ma 8+2 M1 Pro work laptop and the MT score was about 819 points.
1698675235253.png

While the M2 Pro has 2 more small cores, it still won't reach anywhere near the Qualcomm scores:
  • 997 for the smaller reference design
  • 1227 for the bigger one.

Even M2 Ultra still scores around 1600 after all (2x CPUs on one package).

The single threaded results are good too.
  • The 4.3 Ghz design is the same as 13900KS
  • The 4.0 Ghz smaller design is on par with the 7950X

And while it's true, that these should rather be compared against the upcoming M3 Pro, Meteor Lake and Zen 5 - it's still a very solid result from the first implementation.

All of the competitors need to do a very good job with next-gen chips to really outperform it.

I would really like to see a power-unconstrained Desktop version as this also supports external GPUs. Too bad it's a pipedream for now.

EDIT:
Ok when closing everything I managed a 819 point run on the M1 Pro.
 

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Shivansps

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Gideon said:
I would really like to see a power-unconstrained Desktop version as this also supports external GPUs. Too bad it's a pipedream for now.
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GPUs are problematic on ARM because every PCIe implementation is non-spec and only meant to support wifi cards or a NVME at most, im yet to see a up-to-spec PCIE implementation in a consumer level ARM cpu.
 
tamz_msc

tamz_msc

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The scores for the 23 W TDP configuration are much more impressive than the higher TDP version. Intel and AMD cannot catch it in CPU performance unless they up the core count of the big cores with their next mobile CPUs.

What's even more impressive is the iGPU performance. To basically match AMD, who have the most mature iGPU drivers, with a first gen product is really impressive. Granted it is just one game.
 
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Tigerick

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M2 @ 20W still manage to beat X-Elite @ 23W. Apple M2's GPU has 3.6TF, I wonder how much clock of X-Elite's GPU @ 23W???
 
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Tigerick

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I am downloading Geekerwan video, seems like their video has real benchmark. In case you guys has any questions about the video, feel free to ask here...
 
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Glo.

Glo.

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tamz_msc said:
What's even more impressive is the iGPU performance. To basically match AMD, who have the most mature iGPU drivers, with a first gen product is really impressive. Granted it is just one game.
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Elite X - 1536 ALUs.
780M - 768 ALUs.

And Elite X is still slower than M2 that has 1280 ALUs.

Whats so impressive about it?
 
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Tigerick

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The Control has ray tracing support but X-Elite's GPU can't enable them. It is pretty much confirmed X-Elite has no hardware RT support...
 
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soresu

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beginner99 said:
The fact the keynote mentioned nothing about x86->ARM in terms of software and hardware like in Apples M2 tells me it simply doesn't exist.
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It's already built into WoA now, both x86 and x64 apps are supported.

I'm sure that MS collaborated with Qualcomm on it, but at the end of the day that's down to MS to get it working, compatible and fast.
 
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Hitman928

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Apr 15, 2012
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Tigerick said:
Hmm, I don't think it refers to device TDP cause that includes RAM and SSD???
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Yes, everything in the system which is why I’ve been waiting on 3rd party reviews because Qualcomm’s testing with “device TDP” seems rather dubious to me.
 
Tup3x

Tup3x

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Tigerick said:
The Control has ray tracing support but X-Elite's GPU can't enable them. It is pretty much confirmed X-Elite has no hardware RT support...
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I doubt that. Almost certainly just driver issue since 8 Gen 2 has ray tracing support.
 
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