poke01
Diamond Member
I don’t get what’s so good about this considering it’s MT. They have more cores and the “e-cores” are smaller P cores so it’s not surprising that Qualcomm leads in MT
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Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread
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Some storytellers once even talked about 8W🤣🤣🤣
Hmm the article says the rumor has single core at 5.5W and all-core at 14.2W.
That would be mighty impressive but I’ll believe when I see it.
FlameTail
Diamond Member
That is not certain yet.
WHAAAAT? MTK GPU BEING BETTER THAN QC ONE?
That was not in my list.
Seems that ARM became serious on that matter. Maybe the low tier WoA MTH laptops won't be as weak as expecting... maybe GTX 960M tier in the lowest tier?
FlameTail
Diamond Member
Ming Chi Kuo:
medium.com
Strong Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 shipments to significantly boost Qualcomm's 4Q24/F1Q25 business momentum
Among Qualcommâs mobile SoCs this year, the highest-priced and most profitable Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 (SD8G4) will see most of its 2024â¦
FlameTail
Diamond Member
It was rumoured that almost all next generation Chinese flagship phones will bring much larger batteries (~/+6000mAh).
Some people speculated that the reason for this, is that the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 will not be efficient, and hence OEMs are increasing battery sizes to compensate.
Others argued otherwise, saying that the much bigger batteries in the new generation of Chinese flagship phones have nothing to do with the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4. It's simply a progression in battery technology.
It seems the latter group of people may have been right. Chinese OEMs have unveiled new flagship phones with the Dimensity 9400 chip with big batteries (+/~6000 mAh). We know the Dimensity 9400 is a very efficient chip, thanks to Geekerwan's review.
Some people speculated that the reason for this, is that the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4 will not be efficient, and hence OEMs are increasing battery sizes to compensate.
Others argued otherwise, saying that the much bigger batteries in the new generation of Chinese flagship phones have nothing to do with the Snapdragon 8 Gen 4. It's simply a progression in battery technology.
It seems the latter group of people may have been right. Chinese OEMs have unveiled new flagship phones with the Dimensity 9400 chip with big batteries (+/~6000 mAh). We know the Dimensity 9400 is a very efficient chip, thanks to Geekerwan's review.
FlameTail
Diamond Member
Will 2nd gen Snapdragon X have on-package memory?
Advantages of on-package memory;
• Less space taken up in motherboard
• Reduces motherboard cost and complexity
• Allows to scale to very wide buses (512b+) cost efficiently
• Reduces memory power consumption
Disadvantages of on-package memory;
• SoC vendor gets to decide what kind of RAM is paired with their SoC
• OEMs can no longer choose the kind of RAM to be paired with the SoC and negotiating price with RAM suppliers.
That last one seems to be a stickler point. Supoosedly the issue with Lunar Lake is that Intel has to sell the memory at 'cost' to the OEMs, who wouldn't accept any other kind of deal. This degrades Intel's margins for Lunar Lake. Apple on the other hand has no such issue with integrating on-package memory to their SoCs, because they are both the SoC vendor and OEM in one company.
Advantages of on-package memory;
• Less space taken up in motherboard
• Reduces motherboard cost and complexity
• Allows to scale to very wide buses (512b+) cost efficiently
• Reduces memory power consumption
Disadvantages of on-package memory;
• SoC vendor gets to decide what kind of RAM is paired with their SoC
• OEMs can no longer choose the kind of RAM to be paired with the SoC and negotiating price with RAM suppliers.
That last one seems to be a stickler point. Supoosedly the issue with Lunar Lake is that Intel has to sell the memory at 'cost' to the OEMs, who wouldn't accept any other kind of deal. This degrades Intel's margins for Lunar Lake. Apple on the other hand has no such issue with integrating on-package memory to their SoCs, because they are both the SoC vendor and OEM in one company.
I think it's coming as AI workloads for PCs and ADAS systems need the bandwidth at scale. It's not out of the question that there may also be a SKU without on-package memory as well in a lower tier.
One wonders why there isn't a standard module similar to mobile GPU form factor "card" for SoCs and ram that different vendors can plug into their motherboards for better modularity. Another possibility: dram and non-volatile storage as a part of a FOVEROS style package...
FlameTail
Diamond Member
NAND is more susceptible to failure than DRAM. Which is why soldered storage is a bad idea for laptops.
True, but this can be done in phones...
Mobile chips use Package-on-Package memory so you don't worry about space limitations.
@Raqia Foveros style for NAND is a waste, as you are increasing price without much benefits. Storage is much, much slower so power savings are lot less, and there's no performance benefit.
The only real NAND failure modes are reaching wear limit and the controller going bad. The latter is not a concern if the controller is integrated into the SoC like Apple's (and perhaps Qualcomm?) and the former is only an issue in the limited circumstances where someone is doing a whole lot of writing. That can be mitigated somewhat by provisioning more spare cells, using a better grade of NAND, etc. but will be a problem for the few % of people who have that type of pathologically heavy write workload.
It would be nice if Apple used the modular system in the Mac Studio/Pro where the NAND can be replaced across all their product lines. There isn't a third party source for a raw NAND module like Apple uses, but at least it would be repairable.
poke01
Diamond Member
link broken
FlameTail
Diamond Member
Snapdragon Dev Kit cancelled!
Qualcomm cancels Snapdragon Dev Kit, refunds all orders
Qualcomm cancels Snapdragon Dev Kit, refunds all orders
Qualcomm cancels Snapdragon Dev Kit, refunds all orders
This afternoon I received the following email from Arrow, regarding the Snapdragon Developer Kit for Windows: Dear Valued Customer, Please see this important message from Qualcomm: ”At Qualcomm, we are dedicated to pioneering leading technology and delivering premium experiences to our valued...
www.jeffgeerling.com
"orders"
lol. What a failure.
DrMrLordX
Lifer
That really sucks. By the specs, it was a nice little machine. The review I saw of one was not favorable, even if the build quality was mostly good. It shipped with a Home version of Win11 (on a dev kit lol) for example.
FlameTail
Diamond Member
The Dev Kit had many weird quirks and some of them were flaws, yes.
Tbh, I think the cancellation is a good thing. Better ship nothing at all, instead of shipping a flawed product?
DrMrLordX
Lifer
I guess, but getting Linux support for it would have been boss. Only real flaws from an end-user point-of-view were:
Wrong version of Win11
Having to use USB-C for display
It was easily the best-cooled, highest-end X Elite machine available. If you really wanted to tinker with X Elite to see what it could do pushed to its limits, it was the best rig for the job. Good luck finding the 100 SKU in laptops. It's practically unobtainium.
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