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Discussion Qualcomm Snapdragon Thread
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FlameTail
Diamond Member
Snapdragon Dev Kit teardown by Jeff Geerling;
Qualcomm Snapdragon Dev Kit for Windows Teardown (2024)
Update - October 17: Today Qualcomm cancelled all remaining orders, and will no longer support the Dev Kit. In late July, a week after ordering the Snapdragon Dev Kit, I wondered where it was. Arrow's website said 'Ships tomorrow' when I ordered, after all. Many developers eager to test their...
www.jeffgeerling.com
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Rumor has it that Qualcomm will have a part based on the ARM X925 called the "8 Gen 4s"
퀄콤이 삼성과 미디어텍 둘다 엿먹일지도 모르겠네요. (정정) - 미코
퀄콤도 Cortex-X925 쓴다는 정보 포착했을 때 "아..누비아가 잘 안되었을 때 백업플랜이군.." 정도로 생각했는데 그게 아닌 스냅드래곤8s Gen4 포지션 제품인듯합니다. 내년부터 레알 준플래그십 성능으로 스냅드래곤...
It's likely to cost less and compete w/ the Samsung and Mediatek flagships as the "8 Elite" will perform a tier above those and likely be priced accordingly.
The branding choices Qualcomm has made seems particularly sensitive to the Chinese perception that "8" is lucky (particularly 3 8's cf. 888) and "4" is unlucky (homonym for death).
We'll see what they do when the inevitable "4" suffix arrives... (for instance "8 Elite Gen 4") but I'm sure they'll try to weasel away somehow.
It will be funny if it's true. The X925 core has a better IPC than Oryon.Rumor has it that Qualcomm will have a part based on the ARM X925 called the "8 Gen 4s"
퀄콤이 삼성과 미디어텍 둘다 엿먹일지도 모르겠네요. (정정) - 미코
퀄콤도 Cortex-X925 쓴다는 정보 포착했을 때 "아..누비아가 잘 안되었을 때 백업플랜이군.." 정도로 생각했는데 그게 아닌 스냅드래곤8s Gen4 포지션 제품인듯합니다. 내년부터 레알 준플래그십 성능으로 스냅드래곤...meeco.kr
It's likely to cost less and compete w/ the Samsung and Mediatek flagships as the "8 Elite" will perform a tier above those and likely be priced accordingly.
The branding choices Qualcomm has made seems particularly sensitive to the Chinese perception that "8" is lucky (particularly 3 8's cf. 888) and "4" is unlucky (homonym for death).
We'll see what they do when the inevitable "4" suffix arrives... (for instance "8 Elite Gen 4") but I'm sure they'll try to weasel away somehow.
Almost certainly; the Oryon 1.5 in the S8 Elite is rumored to have IPC ~ARM X4. However, the added complexity necessary for higher IPC will limit clocks and may not be the knee of the curve for PPA.
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Na. In terms of IPC, the Snapdragon 8 Elite is much higher than the X4. Keep in mind the X4 was in the Snapdragon 8 Gen 3. (I’m using the Galaxy specific versions for the comparison).
Galaxy S24 Ultra scores in the mid 2200s in GB6 ST at a 3.39GHz clock speed. So roughly 655 pts/GHz.
The Snapdragon 8 Elite is looking like it’ll score around the high 3200s at 4.47GHz (for Galaxy), or around 735 pts/GHz.
And the highest by far X925 score was a 3010 at 3.63GHz, or 829 pts/GHz (the median values are like in the 2800s, with some into the 2900s, so 780-820 pts/GHz).
A lot of variance with that right now clearly.
So the Snapdragon 8 Elite is right in the middle when clock normalizing performance. About 20 to 25% less IPC than the X925.
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FlameTail
Diamond Member
FlameTail
Diamond Member
Yep. It seems with the new Adreno 8 series GPU architecture, the new CU is half the size of the old CU in Adreno 7.
Adreno 7 had 512 FP16 ALUs and 256 FP32 ALUs per CU.
FlameTail
Diamond Member
FlameTail
Diamond Member
Although Qualcomm was the first to bring Ray Tracing to mobile with the Adreno 740 (8G2 - 2022); theirs isn't the most advanced Ray Tracing implementation in a smartphone now. The A17 Pro (2023) which came one year later, surpassed it, and I believe the A18 Pro has the lead over Adreno 750 (8G3 - 2023).
Adreno 740/750 - Level 2 RT
A17/A18 - Level 3 RT
Ray Tracing levels as defined by Imagination Technologies;
blog.imaginationtech.com
Perhaps Adreno 830 will upgrade to Level 3 RT. One could hope...
Adreno 740/750 - Level 2 RT
A17/A18 - Level 3 RT
Ray Tracing levels as defined by Imagination Technologies;
Introducing the Ray Tracing Levels System – and what it will mean for gaming - Imagination
Not all ray tracing solutions are created equal. Learn about the Ray Tracing Levels System here.
blog.imaginationtech.com
Perhaps Adreno 830 will upgrade to Level 3 RT. One could hope...
poke01
Diamond Member
Apples RT cores are pretty good but you won’t see them flex their muscle on solar bay, that’s why Geekerwan had to test on an intensive RT benchmark provided by 3D mark.Although Qualcomm was the first to bring Ray Tracing to mobile with the Adreno 740 (8G2 - 2022); theirs isn't the most advanced Ray Tracing implementation in a smartphone now. The A17 Pro (2023) which came one year later, surpassed it, and I believe the A18 Pro has the lead over Adreno 750 (8G3 - 2023).
Adreno 740/750 - Level 2 RT
A17/A18 - Level 3 RT
Ray Tracing levels as defined by Imagination Technologies;
Introducing the Ray Tracing Levels System – and what it will mean for gaming - Imagination
Not all ray tracing solutions are created equal. Learn about the Ray Tracing Levels System here.
Perhaps Adreno 830 will upgrade to Level 3 RT. One could hope...
It is interesting to know what Imagination's developments and patents were used to develop the Apple RT.Although Qualcomm was the first to bring Ray Tracing to mobile with the Adreno 740 (8G2 - 2022); theirs isn't the most advanced Ray Tracing implementation in a smartphone now. The A17 Pro (2023) which came one year later, surpassed it, and I believe the A18 Pro has the lead over Adreno 750 (8G3 - 2023).
Adreno 740/750 - Level 2 RT
A17/A18 - Level 3 RT
Ray Tracing levels as defined by Imagination Technologies;
Introducing the Ray Tracing Levels System – and what it will mean for gaming - Imagination
Not all ray tracing solutions are created equal. Learn about the Ray Tracing Levels System here.
Perhaps Adreno 830 will upgrade to Level 3 RT. One could hope...
poke01
Diamond Member
Imagination and Apple Sign New Agreement - Imagination
Apple signs new IP licence deal with Imagination Technologies
www.imaginationtech.com
Apple probably has access to nearly all of them?
poke01
Diamond Member
ikjadoon
Senior member
The GitHub issue, where Jeff has added some prelim. power numbers:
Qualcomm Snapdragon X Dev Kit for Windows · Issue #51 · geerlingguy/sbc-reviews
Basic information Board URL (official): https://www.arrow.com/en/products/c8380-12c-mp-32g/thundercomm Board purchased from: Arrow Board purchase date: 2024-07-16 (Arrived 2024-09-25) Board specs (...
github.com
GB6 1T
28W total - 11W idle → 17W idle normalized | 4.3 GHz Oryon
Its 1T power seems a good chunk higher than the Apple M2 on a similar-ish mode; the ~800 MHz clock disparity likely plays no small part. I'd hoped for sub-10W (my dear fanless dream) but alas, another generation perhaps.
These 1T numbers (of admittedly the fastest SKU) are between Lunar Lake and the M2.
Rumor has it that Qualcomm will have a part based on the ARM X925 called the "8 Gen 4s"
퀄콤이 삼성과 미디어텍 둘다 엿먹일지도 모르겠네요. (정정) - 미코
퀄콤도 Cortex-X925 쓴다는 정보 포착했을 때 "아..누비아가 잘 안되었을 때 백업플랜이군.." 정도로 생각했는데 그게 아닌 스냅드래곤8s Gen4 포지션 제품인듯합니다. 내년부터 레알 준플래그십 성능으로 스냅드래곤...
It's likely to cost less and compete w/ the Samsung and Mediatek flagships as the "8 Elite" will perform a tier above those and likely be priced accordingly.
Good side: some excellent perf & perf / W comparison data between X925 & Oryon cores!
Curious side: why not sell weaker-bins of the Oryon mobile SoC → cheaper SKUs? X Elite on PC has eight SKUs per its 12C die. Surely some weaker Oryon dies can be binned down. Wouldn't that more cost effective?
Or is the Oryon mobile SoC that pricey that even after binning (e.g., all usable dies exhausted), Qualcomm can't get the per-die price low enough for OEM interest? Would that imply Oryon's production cost >>> X925's licensing and production cost?
CB score of 131 ST at 28W/1227 MT at 99W.The GitHub issue, where Jeff has added some prelim. power numbers:
Qualcomm Snapdragon X Dev Kit for Windows · Issue #51 · geerlingguy/sbc-reviews
Basic information Board URL (official): https://www.arrow.com/en/products/c8380-12c-mp-32g/thundercomm Board purchased from: Arrow Board purchase date: 2024-07-16 (Arrived 2024-09-25) Board specs (...
GB6 1T
28W total - 11W idle → 17W idle normalized | 4.3 GHz Oryon
Its 1T power seems a good chunk higher than the Apple M2 on a similar-ish mode; the ~800 MHz clock disparity likely plays no small part. I'd hoped for sub-10W (my dear fanless dream) but alas, another generation perhaps.
These 1T numbers (of admittedly the fastest SKU) are between Lunar Lake and the M2.
Good side: some excellent perf & perf / W comparison data between X925 & Oryon cores!
Curious side: why not sell weaker-bins of the Oryon mobile SoC → cheaper SKUs? X Elite on PC has eight SKUs per its 12C die. Surely some weaker Oryon dies can be binned down. Wouldn't that more cost effective?
Or is the Oryon mobile SoC that pricey that even after binning (e.g., all usable dies exhausted), Qualcomm can't get the per-die price low enough for OEM interest? Would that imply Oryon's production cost >>> X925's licensing and production cost?
GB score of 3020 ST/15969 MT.
Still going to be weird having their flagship mobile SKU beating their flagship laptop SKU in ST. Just seems backwards; particularly when they’re trying to break in to the laptop space (and supposedly desktop). Granted some devices with the X Elite will have been out for 4-5 months prior to the mobile devices, but still.. odd choice.
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FlameTail
Diamond Member
100 watts? Good lord.Curious side: why not sell weaker-bins of the Oryon mobile SoC → cheaper SKUs? X Elite on PC has eight SKUs per its 12C die. Surely some weaker Oryon dies can be binned down. Wouldn't that more cost effective?
I don't think it has anything to do with Oryon.
It simply seems to be the fact that these dies are so massive, and Qualcomm is only willing to reduce the cost of a binned die by X%, which OEMs don't find satisfactory.
FlameTail
Diamond Member
This is Hamoa.
Purwa has one less Oryon cluster (-16 mm²) and half the GPU (-12 mm²). Also Purwa has a weaker VPU and no PCIe lanes for dGPU.
So I'd guess Purwa is about 130 mm².
Also isn't it interesting how one Oryon cluster is situated far away from the other two? I think this is proof in the die about what Gerard Williams said at Hot Chips 2024 (Paraphrasing) "There are 2 clusters which are operated in a performant manner, and 1 cluster operated in an efficient manner".
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