Q6600 in ati 5850 vs Gtx 470

[Phynaz]

Nevermind.

 

[happy medium]

Guys, posting links to specific game and AA combinations is meaningless.

The 470 is a bit faster at stock, but generally does not OC very well. It is more power hungry and produces more heat, inherently limiting OC potential besides the fact that it's a binned, low-yield chip.

It's not a bad card, but it is an overall worse price/performance part than the 5850.

Most 5850s will overclock to ~940 with minimal volts, and they overtake stock 5870s at ~880, which I got to without any additional volts at all. The memory chips are literally the same just volt them to 5870 levels and you can clock them just as high.

The gtx 470 overclocked to 775 core is = to the 5870.
It takes a 5850 with 1000 core to match a 5870. Do you relize how much more power and heat the 5850 uses when clocked this high with the extra voltage?

 

[happy medium]

Nevermind.

I did !

 

[santz]

The best way to OC your Q6600 is in the system BIOS.
With a mild overclock you probably won't need to adjust voltages or memory profiles.
They run pretty fast at an even 3.0GHz which you can set it to by using a 333Mhz FSB ratio with the 9 multiplier.
Here's some reading for you...
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=47089

ps.I agree,Obama is awesome
pps.I have an HD5850 and it rocks.

Thanks, marked for reading at home!! I am going to be getting the saphire 5850 within a week!!

 

[happy medium]

Here is some benches from Anandtech website. gtx 465 does rather well compared to the 5850. The gtx 470 is even better @1900x1080.

It equals a 5870 here..

IMPORTANT MINIMUM FRAMERATES!!!

Direct x 11....equaling a 5870 again!

Gtx 465 beating the 5850 again!

Must have some kind of driver issue here .The gtx 480 is slower then the gtx 470? But STILL a WIN for the gtx 470 and this is ATI's best game!!!!!.

ANd here is the MINIMUMS for BAD company 2!!!!! ATI getting its ass kicked by the gtx 465!

Dirt 2 the gtx 470 is .5 fps behind the 5870!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3745/nvidias-geforce-gtx-465/11

 

[Will Robinson]

Aww...you forgot this one.:sneaky:

Check your cherry basket for holes.^_^

*courtesy:techreport.com*

 

[Sp12]

The gtx 470 overclocked to 775 core is = to the 5870.
It takes a 5850 with 1000 core to match a 5870. Do you relize how much more power and heat the 5850 uses when clocked this high with the extra voltage?

1000 core will surpass a 480. You only need 880 to match a 5870 at 850. The 5850 and 5870 perform within 4% per clock.

Admittedly, not every chip is able to reach 1000, regardless of volts, but 880 (5870 performance) is possible, at least on some chips, without any volts.

And look, I can choose specific benchmarks to support my opinion too.

 

[Paratus]

After reading this thread I immediately thought of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tqxzWdKKu8&feature=youtube_gdata

I leave it to the reader to decide which side is the mentally challenged mountain boy.

 

[RussianSensation]

The gtx 470 overclocked to 775 core is = to the 5870.

Maybe with a Core i5 750 at least or faster processor. OP has a Q6600 @ 3.0ghz. There will be little to no difference between a GTX470 and a 5850. 1920x1200 will hammer both of these cards to be honest in the latest games into low 20s-30s frames per second.

It takes a 5850 with 1000 core to match a 5870. Do you relize how much more power and heat the 5850 uses when clocked this high with the extra voltage?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010_4.html#sect0

You are right, 1000 core is most likely impractical due to the need for 1.30+ V core on the gpu. But you may be able to get to 975 and still get good power consumption. Bottom line is, with a Q6600 stock processor, it makes sense to get a 5850 and pocket the price difference between the 5850 and GTX470 towards a platform upgrade instead.

 

[happy medium]

1000 core will surpass a 480. You only need 880 to match a 5870 at 850. The 5850 and 5870 perform within 4% per clock.

Admittedly, not every chip is able to reach 1000, regardless of volts, but 880 (5870 performance) is possible, at least on some chips, without any volts.

And look, I can choose specific benchmarks to support my opinion too.

A 5870 at 1000 core will match a gtx 480. You must be mixed up.
A 5850 needs like 1150 core to match a gtx 480 and 990 core to match a 5870.
Most people know this, and I'm sure they will back me up.

Here is a 5870 super overclocked edition at 950 core vs a gtx 480.

Look at the MINIMUMS here!

RUNS OUT OF MEMORY HERE and cant run 8x aa !!!

Quote"
"We found that on both the GIGABYTE HD 5870 SOC Edition and standard ATI Radeon HD 5870 we could only play at 4X AA at 2560x1600. You can see that the performance is there to run at 8X AA on these video cards, but the 1GB memory capacity is keeping it from being playable"

A tie here..about time.

5870 at 990 core does = or beat a gtx 480.
proof........

So like I said a 5850 at 1000 core has NO chance vs a gtx 480.

Of just in case you wanted to know how hot and how much power a 5870 draws when clocked at 990 core?

Only 35 less watts then a gtx 480 and 2c less heat, and thats with a after market dual fan cooler on the 5870. Go figure!

 

[happy medium]

[/IMG]



Lets stay on topic.............the gtx 470 beats the 5850 90% of the time by 10 /20% and a overclocked 5850 will not beat a overclocked gtx 470.

 

[RussianSensation]

I think that GTX470 is faster than a 5850 on a Q6600 @ 3.0ghz but at 1920x1200? That's 5870 vs. GTX480 space. Neither of these GPUs are fast enough for 1920x1200 in Metro 2033, Crysis/Warhead, STALKER: Call of Pripyat, Alien vs. Predator, etc., while they are already fast enough for the older games. I would say the best decisions rests on the games the OP plays:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-gtx470-sli_6.html#sect1

Sometimes GTX470 can beat 5870, other times it loses.

 

[happy medium]

I don't understand why you guys turned this thread into ATI vs. NV. The whole point of this thread is to help the OP make a decision. Arguing that GTX470 is faster than a 5850 on a Q6600 is trivial since that CPU will be about 40-50% slower than a Core i7 3.5+ ghz at 1680x1050 with either of the cards. This means both of the cards will be bottlenecked unless that CPU is overclocked to 3.3-3.4ghz (and even then they'll be bottlenecked another 10-15% against a Core i7 at 1680x1050).

We covered overclocking his cpu allready.
It's not ATI vs Nvidia, It's 5850 vs gtx 470.

Edit: the op's resolution is 1900x1080 and he also states that the gtx 470 is only 10$ more.

 

[SlowSpyder]

A couple of things worth pointing out.

First, in the first HOCP picture the settings are higher on the Radeon.

Next, don't you think it's somewhat telling that a 5870 overclocked 140MHz on the core, and with voltage added, is still using 35 watts less than the GTX480?

Also, 2GB versions of the 5870 are available. So when 1.5GB runs out (as could with multiple displays...) than will you claim the 5870 is superior due to having more vram?

And lastly, 2C is meaningless in this case. These are different coolers on different sized GPU's. The GTX480 still uses more power, it will still put out more heat overall than the overvolted, overclocked 5870...

Now don't get me wrong, both are perfectly fine parts with strengths and weaknesses, but it's not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be, Happy Medium.

 

[happy medium]

I think that GTX470 is faster than a 5850 on a Q6600 @ 3.0ghz but at 1920x1200? That's 5870 vs. GTX480 space. Neither of these GPUs are fast enough for 1920x1200 in Metro 2033, Crysis/Warhead, STALKER: Call of Pripyat, Alien vs. Predator, etc., while they are already fast enough for the older games. I would say the best decisions rests on the games the OP plays:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-gtx470-sli_6.html#sect1

Sometimes GTX470 can beat 5870, other times it loses.

+1
Agreed.

 

[happy medium]

Now don't get me wrong, both are perfectly fine parts with strengths and weaknesses, but it's not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be, Happy Medium

I just state a fact and back it up is all.

And lastly, 2C is meaningless in this case. These are different coolers on different sized GPU's. The GTX480 still uses more power, it will still put out more heat overall than the overvolted, overclocked 5870...

The difference between the cards is 2c, a whole 35 watts difference for equal performance?
I think a persons breath gives off more heat then 35 watts?

Also, 2GB versions of the 5870 are available. So when 1.5GB runs out (as could with multiple displays...) than will you claim the 5870 is superior due to having more vram?

Why would anyone buy a 2gb 5870 for 500$ unless you have a 30 inch monitor which 1% of us do. It's not much faster then a 1 gb anyway.
But it is nice to know you have a little extra memory on both the Nvidia cards and with card this powerfull it might actually use it?

Next, don't you think it's somewhat telling that a 5870 overclocked 140MHz on the core, and with voltage added, is still using 35 watts less than the GTX480?

I think it shows that you need a much hotter,louder,power hungry 5870 to = a gtx 480 and the point that I was arguing was that a 5850 overclocked CAN NOT BEAT a gtx 480.

First, in the first HOCP picture the settings are higher on the Radeon.

Thats one and with setting that are not detectable with the human eye as pointed out by the reviewers.
Stop nit picking.

 

[Sp12]

Why would anyone buy a 2gb 5870 for 500$ unless you have a 30 inch monitor which 1% of us do. It's not much faster then a 1 gb anyway.
But it is nice to know you have a little extra memory on both the Nvidia cards and with card this powerfull it might actually use it?

You even said above that for ultra-high AA at high resolutions you need more vram. You can't pick and choose when you want to use facts. Memory isn't a big deal unless you want to do ultra-high AA on high resolutions.

I think it shows that you need a much hotter,louder,power hungry 5870 to = a gtx 480 and the point that I was arguing was that a 5850 overclocked CAN NOT BEAT a gtx 480.

But it's not. Even OCed to 990 it uses less power and runs cooler.

Thats one and with setting that are not detectable with the human eye as pointed out by the reviewers.

That isn't a legitimate argument technique. The 5870 is running HIGHER visual settings in those comparisons, yet manages to be very close to the more expensive 480 at lower settings. Who cares if its invisible to your eyes, it's cutting framerates and you're ignoring that in a performance comparison. Granted, they trade games, but this is supposed to be about the 5850 and 470 anyway.

Here's a good chart showing that at the same clockspeed, the 5850 and 5870 are within 2% of eachother. At 880, the 5850 matches an 850 5870.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6940/5850clocks.jpg

 

[Wolfman1862]

Ok I'm trying to narrow down the cards which im looking to purchase

So far its the
EVGA gtx 470 for 336$tax and shipping(well no tax)

His 5870 for 375$ tax and shipping(stupid newegg shipping depot in my state=25dollars tax. Also includes MW2 but I already have it)

5850 is a bit tougher the cheapest I could go for is Visiontek 5850 at 290$ tax and shipping(I don't know much about visiontek, other brands ranged about 10-20$ more. However I believe this card by visiontek is a reference model)

If there are other cards on sale or cheaper please point them out
Again thanks for all the input.
(and also to clarify I am running on a 26inch 1920x1200 monitor)

 

[happy medium]

You even said above that for ultra-high AA at high resolutions you need more vram. You can't pick and choose when you want to use facts. Memory isn't a big deal unless you want to do ultra-high AA on high resolutions.


But it's not. Even OCed to 990 it uses less power and runs cooler.

That isn't a legitimate argument technique. The 5870 is running HIGHER visual settings in those comparisons, yet manages to be very close to the more expensive 480 at lower settings. Who cares if its invisible to your eyes, it's cutting framerates and you're ignoring that in a performance comparison. Granted, they trade games, but this is supposed to be about the 5850 and 470 anyway.

Here's a good chart showing that at the same clockspeed, the 5850 and 5870 are within 2% of eachother. At 880, the 5850 matches an 850 5870.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6940/5850clocks.jpg

Nice chart ,want to see mine ? I can make one too.
Please use large review sites.

 

[happy medium]

Ok I'm trying to narrow down the cards which im looking to purchase

So far its the
EVGA gtx 470 for 336$tax and shipping(well no tax)

His 5870 for 375$ tax and shipping(stupid newegg shipping depot in my state=25dollars tax. Also includes MW2 but I already have it)

5850 is a bit tougher the cheapest I could go for is Visiontek 5850 at 290$ tax and shipping(I don't know much about visiontek, other brands ranged about 10-20$ more. However I believe this card by visiontek is a reference model)

If there are other cards on sale or cheaper please point them out
Again thanks for all the input.
(and also to clarify I am running on a 26inch 1920x1200 monitor)

Wow, thats a tough choice. but the performance = price for all.
Hmmm I'd go for the 5850 (with voltage controll) if its 46$ less then a gtx 470.

The gtx 470 has dipped under 300$ 2 times in the past 2 weeks on Newegg. look out for that deal also.

 

[Sp12]

Nice chart ,want to see mine ? I can make one too.
Please use large review sites.

At this point I'm going to assume you're biased and leave the discussion. It does not take 950 clocks for a 5850 to match a 5870 :/ I'll leave the facts presented previously up for view.

 

[Wolfman1862]

Wow, thats a tough choice. but the performance = price for all.
Hmmm I'd go for the 5850 (with voltage controll) if its 46$ less then a gtx 470.

The gtx 470 has dipped under 300$ 2 times in the past 2 weeks on Newegg. look out for that deal also.

Well I just found out that the visiontek is sold out XD, however I found a diamond 5850 reference for 306$tax and shipping with 30$ MIR so i guess 276$.(but MIR a pain)

And yeah I'm strangely drawn to the gtx 470 why I don't know.

 

[happy medium]

Maybe with a Core i5 750 at least or faster processor. OP has a Q6600 @ 3.0ghz. There will be little to no difference between a GTX470 and a 5850. 1920x1200 will hammer both of these cards to be honest in the latest games into low 20s-30s frames per second.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/gpu-power-consumption-2010_4.html#sect0

You are right, 1000 core is most likely impractical due to the need for 1.30+ V core on the gpu. But you may be able to get to 975 and still get good power consumption. Bottom line is, with a Q6600 stock processor, it makes sense to get a 5850 and pocket the price difference between the 5850 and GTX470 towards a platform upgrade instead.

Thanks Russian,

@SP12
He seems to think so.......A 5850 needs more then 880 core to = a 5870, you are wrong.

 

[busydude]

Well I just found out that the visiontek is sold out XD, however I found a diamond 5850 reference for 306$tax and shipping with 30$ MIR so i guess 276$.(but MIR a pain) And yeah I'm strangely drawn to the gtx 470 why I don't know.

I have to ask, what PSU do you have?

Strike that. I see that you mentioned it in post #11

 

[Wolfman1862]

I have to ask, what PSU do you have?

Strike that. I see that you mentioned it in post #11

If you check back on the first page the link is working now(post 11 for link, post 12 for name)

Its a corsair 750 watt
hah whoops sorry misread your post.