Putting Christ back into ThanksGiving?

[nageov3t]

I don't get it.

the word christ, jesus, and christian were nowhere in that speach/statement.

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: loki8481
I don't get it.

the word christ, jesus, and christian were nowhere in that speach/statement.

But he said

and may God continue to bless America.

and

in the year of our Lord two thousand six,

so it must be bad.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Thump553

I'd love to see a reference or link to support that.

The original Thanksgiving was a end of the harvest season feast jointly celebrated by settlers and their Indian neighbors.

Google Thanksgiving Massacre.


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History is written by the victors.

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Thump553

I'd love to see a reference or link to support that.

The original Thanksgiving was a end of the harvest season feast jointly celebrated by settlers and their Indian neighbors.

Google Thanksgiving Massacre.


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History is written by the victors.

So then I take it you are working on Thanksgiving and the day after then since you are so against what it stands for?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Jeff7
I've read a few places that Thanksgiving originally started as a celebration of a massacre of Native Americans - thus the colonists were thankful for having security against the "savage natives". So hey, party!
Can't tell that to the kids though, just like we can't tell them that Jefferson had slaves, or had children with his slaves.

That's news to me. Tell me about this celebration of a massacre... with evidence please.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

[No Sarcasm]The current President isn't a Christian so no need for you to worry.[/No Sarcasm]

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

[No Sarcasm]The current President isn't a Christian so no need for you to worry.[/No Sarcasm]

LOL! I think there is only one person who can decide that, and he aint on ATPN, thats for sure.

 

[PELarson]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: PELarson

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

[No Sarcasm]The current President isn't a Christian so no need for you to worry.[/No Sarcasm]

LOL! I think there is only one person who can decide that, and he aint on ATPN, thats for sure.

Actually you should decide for yourself by the persons actions whether they are a Christian or not.

By his actions the President isn't a Christian.

Matthew 7:15-20

"15
9 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.
16
By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
17
Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.
18
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.
19
Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
20
So by their fruits you will know them. "

 

[Czar]

in the year of our Lord

we still use that phrase?

 

[Corbett]

Originally posted by: PELarson
Actually you should decide for yourself by the persons actions whether they are a Christian or not.

Show me in the Bible where it says that, and this time, in context please.

Clue : Try reading John 8 for starters.

Or why dont you try flipping back a few verses to Matt 7:1 even.

 

[Wheezer]

Wikipedia:

The Pilgrims set apart a day to celebrate at Plymouth immediately after their first harvest, in 1621. At the time, this was not regarded as a Thanksgiving observance; harvest festivals were existing parts of English and Wampanoag tradition alike. Several American colonists have personal accounts of the 1621 feast in Massachusetts:

William Bradford, in Of Plymouth Plantation:

"They began now to gather in the small harvest they had, and to fit up their house and dwelling against winter, being all well recovered in health and strength and had all things in good plenty. For as some were thus employed in affairs abroad, others were exercised in fishing, about cod and bass and other fish, of which they took good store, of which every family had their portion. All the summer there was no want; and now began to come in store of fowl, as winter approached, of which this place did abound when they came first (but afterward decreased by degrees). And besides waterfowl there was great store of wild turkeys, of which they took many, besides venison, etc. Besides, they had about a peck of meal a week to a person, or now since harvest, Indian corn to that proportion. Which made many afterwards write so largely of their plenty here to their friends in England, which were not feigned by true reports."

Edward Winslow, in Mourt's Relation:

"Our harvest being gotten in, our governor sent four men on fowling, that so we might after a special manner rejoice together after we had gathered the fruits of our labor. They four in one day killed as much fowl as, with a little help beside, served the company almost a week. At which time, amongst other recreations, we exercised our arms, many of the Indians coming amongst us, and among the rest their greatest king Massasoit, with some ninety men, whom for three days we entertained and feasted, and they went out and killed five deer, which we brought to the plantation and bestowed on our governor, and upon the captain and others. And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us, yet by the goodness of God, we are so far from want that we often wish you partakers of our plenty."

The mention of ninety men in the Winslow account is of interest, as the Native People present would have outnumbered the 50 surviving English at that point. The two preceding passages are the only records of the event, but historians presume that both groups were exposed to unfamiliar forms of celebration.

The Pilgrims did not hold a true Thanksgiving until 1623, when it followed a drought, prayers for rain, and a subsequent rain shower. Irregular Thanksgivings continued after favorable events and days of fasting after unfavorable ones. In the Plymouth tradition, a thanksgiving day was a church observance, rather than a feast day.

Gradually, an annual Thanksgiving after the harvest developed in the mid-17th century. This did not occur on any set day or necessarily on the same day in different colonies in America.

So religion has always played a part in Thanksgiving. Traditionaly people of all races/religions have prayed before meals, (yes that included native American Indians also) why on earth would a day like Thanksgiving be any different?

reguardelss of who you pray to, you are giving thanks to a higher power that you are fortunate enought to have food before you.

I fail to see why anyone is even bothering with this. If your point is to take religion out of it for yourself fine, do so, but be respective of others who believe that thier god(s) have a role in this holiday.

To those that are religous, respect those that just want to enjoy a meal with family without feeling a need to be thankful to a higher power (other than the cook 🙂)

 

[fitzov]

The puritans said prayers for everything--that doesn't make Thanksgiving religious. That's like saying dinnertime is religious because you say grace, or that football games are religious because people pray that their team wins.

Btw, wiki isn't considered an authoritative source for anything--there's a reason why it's not considered a worthy source for research papers. Not that I don't participate in it, but I wouldn't use it for proof of anything.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

I wouldn't mind so much if he didn't wear it on his sleeve.

But if he were a Muslim and wore it on his head, then that would probably be alright with you, right?

No they are more fscked up than the Christians. 3 religions the world would be better off without, Christian, Muslim and Jewish. Of course they are here to stay so I guess we are stuck with dealing with their Bullsh!t.

Im sorry I thought I was having a conversation with DealMoneky. Why dont you go stalk someone else on the internet.

You want a private conversation with DealMonkey use PM's like the everybody else unless he blocked you from PM'ing him.

The difference between Christians/Jews and Muslims, is that there is no open ended mandate to kill in the name of God in the Bible like there is throughout the Koran.

I wouldn't know, I never read the Koran and I bet you haven't either.

 

[Seekermeister]

I have been in the debate section of a number of forums, and I'm accustomed to antiChristian sentiments, but the P&N takes the cake, because I'm continually amazed at how trivially persistent some of the members here are. Anyone that would question the purpose of the original Thanksgiving, and state that it had no religious significance must be willingly blind, because the intelligence found here otherwise, doesn't allow for a lack of education or exposure.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

I wouldn't mind so much if he didn't wear it on his sleeve.

But if he were a Muslim and wore it on his head, then that would probably be alright with you, right?

No they are more fscked up than the Christians. 3 religions the world would be better off without, Christian, Muslim and Jewish. Of course they are here to stay so I guess we are stuck with dealing with their Bullsh!t.

Don't forget the atheists, they caused all kinds of problems, and killed millions. We could do without them as well. Man, wouldn't that be kick-ass if all the Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Atheists never existed? Oh, and the blacks, too, and the whites, and might as well throw in the Mexicans, what with all the crap they do. What about the Hindu's, I bet they have pissed some people off. Let's add them into the group as well. OMG, I forgot about professions. Imagine a world without lawyers, oh, and doctors, those bastards charge way too much money. Let's see, CEO's, and any cast member of Seinfeld. Yeah, let's imagine a world without all of those people. Awesome, that would be kick-ass.

 

[brownzilla786]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

I wouldn't mind so much if he didn't wear it on his sleeve.

But if he were a Muslim and wore it on his head, then that would probably be alright with you, right?

No they are more fscked up than the Christians. 3 religions the world would be better off without, Christian, Muslim and Jewish. Of course they are here to stay so I guess we are stuck with dealing with their Bullsh!t.

Im sorry I thought I was having a conversation with DealMoneky. Why dont you go stalk someone else on the internet.

You want a private conversation with DealMonkey use PM's like the everybody else unless he blocked you from PM'ing him.

The difference between Christians/Jews and Muslims, is that there is no open ended mandate to kill in the name of God in the Bible like there is throughout the Koran.

I wouldn't know, I never read the Koran and I bet you haven't either.

Actually, killing is one of the worst sins a Muslim can commit. That goes along with all religions, killing is never accepted UNLESS they attack you and you are provoked to react in such a way.

 

[wiin]

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

No such thing stated in the Constitution. You need to stop drinking alcohol.

 

[judasmachine]

TG is the celebration of some pretentious bastitches taking advantage of those who were nice enough to help them survive. We all know what happened to the Samoset, and others immediately after.

Viva la genocide! Thank God for making them savages, otherwise we wouldn't have survived long enough to kill them.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: brownzilla786
Actually, killing is one of the worst sins a Muslim can commit. That goes along with all religions, killing is never accepted UNLESS they attack you and you are provoked to react in such a way.

Exactly where do you get this idea? Perhaps you should read this:

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Silas/terrorism.htm

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Vote for Dave: This can be better than the 'Ckicken in Every Pot' !

A nutcase in every thread?

Bwaaahahaha! Awe. Some. 😀

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I have been in the debate section of a number of forums, and I'm accustomed to antiChristian sentiments, but the P&N takes the cake, because I'm continually amazed at how trivially persistent some of the members here are. Anyone that would question the purpose of the original Thanksgiving, and state that it had no religious significance must be willingly blind, because the intelligence found here otherwise, doesn't allow for a lack of education or exposure.

Nice back-handed ad hom. Bravo, well played, sir. I can question anything I damn well please and no, Christianity is not under assault, you are not a victim and the religious are not being persecuted.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Corbett

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Corbett
SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!!! OMG! THE PRESIDENT CANT BE A CHRISTIAN!

I wouldn't mind so much if he didn't wear it on his sleeve.

But if he were a Muslim and wore it on his head, then that would probably be alright with you, right?

Are you asking me? Or telling me?

I guess both, since we both already know what your answer is going to be.

My sentiments would be the same, regardless of what religion was being pushed on the masses. I have no love of Islam if that's what you're getting at.

 

[Seekermeister]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I have been in the debate section of a number of forums, and I'm accustomed to antiChristian sentiments, but the P&N takes the cake, because I'm continually amazed at how trivially persistent some of the members here are. Anyone that would question the purpose of the original Thanksgiving, and state that it had no religious significance must be willingly blind, because the intelligence found here otherwise, doesn't allow for a lack of education or exposure.

Nice back-handed ad hom. Bravo, well played, sir. I can question anything I damn well please and no, Christianity is not under assault, you are not a victim and the religious are not being persecuted.

I would be the last person to attempt to gag you. But, you shall not gag me either. I never said anything about me being a victim, nor are you capable of victimizing me. However, when you attempt to redefine the heritage of this country, you may be victimizing others, but not the Christians, because they are not so easily influenced. The person that you are doing the greatest injustice to is yourself. If someone else chooses to believe your distortion of the truth, then you shall share in the consequences of their waywardness. You already have enough of a burden, just dealing with your own errors.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Seekermeister

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Seekermeister
I have been in the debate section of a number of forums, and I'm accustomed to antiChristian sentiments, but the P&N takes the cake, because I'm continually amazed at how trivially persistent some of the members here are. Anyone that would question the purpose of the original Thanksgiving, and state that it had no religious significance must be willingly blind, because the intelligence found here otherwise, doesn't allow for a lack of education or exposure.

Nice back-handed ad hom. Bravo, well played, sir. I can question anything I damn well please and no, Christianity is not under assault, you are not a victim and the religious are not being persecuted.

I would be the last person to attempt to gag you. But, you shall not gag me either. I never said anything about me being a victim, nor are you capable of victimizing me. However, when you attempt to redefine the heritage of this country, you may be victimizing others, but not the Christians, because they are not so easily influenced. The person that you are doing the greatest injustice to is yourself. If someone else chooses to believe your distortion of the truth, then you shall share in the consequences of their waywardness. You already have enough of a burden, just dealing with your own errors.

Right, so now I've been damned to hell? I just love being judged by you.

 

[Seekermeister]

Did I say anything about you being damned? You are still alive, therefore you are not damned. I do not judge you, but I can and do judge what you say.