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Putin writes op-ed in New York Times: "A Plea for Caution From Russia"

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I find it highly illuminating that Putin gets a free pass for being a lying hypocrit because he's "right" about Syria. I strongly suspect if Russia was considering bombing some country and Obama wrote an op-ed containing a bunch of lies and hypocrisy - for example, stating that no country should ever act militarily without UN authorization - that there would be discussion of literally nothing else but Obama's lies and hypocrisy.

Yeah, keep swinging from the nutsacks of people like Putin and Assad just because they're in opposition to the Obama administration. Including when he lectures us about how "God" created us all "equal" after signing a bill that criminalizes open homosexuality in Russia.

Putin is a pig, and you guys are so transparent.
 
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If Putin had America's military power at his fingertips, what the hell do you think he would be doing with it? He wouldn't have a fraction of the restraint that the US has shown so far.
 
Limbaugh opened with a 1-hour monologue on his definition of American exceptionalism.

I don't believe in "American" exceptionalism but I don't disagree with Rush's own definition of what he thinks it actually is. And he claims that his definition is not what most people think it is.
 
Woolfe9998, you're acting like we're voting Putin President. Chill out for a moment.

You want to call Putin a hypocrit? Fine. I don't object. His... honor and lack thereof is not nearly as important as whether President Obama is actively arming Islamic Terrorists in Syria. Actively harming the only government standing between them and Chemical Weapons.

There is a larger issue at stake here.

If all you want to talk about is Putin touting the international "law", fine, but the United States both present and past administrations have worked to undermine it. So I guess we ARE all created equal.

Moreover, I'm pretty sure American exceptionalism died in our response to September 11th. Of Patriot Acts, Iraq, the TSA and NSA. Americans are vigorously abused by their government. It is dangerous to pretend otherwise, to try and sweep our own crimes against ourselves and others under the rug in order to maintain a Sean Hannity-esq style of American Patriotism and Fascism.

Stop being worried about saving face and calling others hypocrites and start worrying about solving our very serious internal problems. We need to start being on the correct side of things, and assisting Al Qaeda is NOT correct.

Maybe you should thank Putin for trying to stop us there, instead of flipping out over trivialities.
 
No-more-war-on-Syria.jpg


Putin's "Plea for Caution" wasn't his first NY Times Opinion Piece.

You can find his Nov 99 piece, here.

... I ask you to put aside for a moment the dramatic news reports from the Caucasus and imagine something more placid: ordinary New Yorkers or Washingtonians, asleep in their homes. Then, in a flash, hundreds perish in explosions at the Watergate, or at an apartment complex on Manhattan's West Side. Thousands are injured, some horribly disfigured. Panic engulfs a neighborhood, then a nation.

Russians do not have to imagine such a calamity....
That was almost two years before 9/11...

I'm pleased that Putin is able to talk directly to the American Public.

And I think that he is right to discourage Obama from committing a unilateral military strike.

Make no mistake. Putin's responsibility is to Russia not the US. And any trust would need to be verified.

Nonetheless, even if his plan is a sham, if it leads to a diplomatic rather than a military solution, then it will have had value ...

How do you think the people in Lybia feel about Obama's bombing their country? How do you think the people of Egypt feel about how Obama's foreign policy has worked out for them?

However you define the problem in Syria, a handful of cruise missiles isn't a solution.

Uno
 
The only reason we're talking about Putin is because of the Laurel and Hardy President we have.

A consensus assessment of the past week's events could easily form around Oliver Hardy's famous lament to the compulsive bumbler Stan Laurel: "Here's another nice mess you've gotten us into!"

In the interplay between Barack Obama and John Kerry, it's not obvious which one is Laurel and which one is Hardy. But diplomatic slapstick is not funny. No one wants to live in a Laurel and Hardy presidency. In a Laurel and Hardy presidency, red lines vanish, shots across the bow are word balloons, and a display of U.S. power with the whole world watching is going to be "unbelievably small." ........................

The past week was a perfect storm of American malfunction. Colliding at the center of a serious foreign-policy crisis was Barack Obama's manifest skills deficit, conservative animosity toward Mr. Obama, Republican distrust of his leadership, and the reflexive opportunism of politicians from Washington to Moscow. .............
It is Barack Obama's impulse to make himself and whatever is in his head the center of attention. By now, we are used to it. But this week he turned himself, the presidency and the United States into a spectacle. We were alternately shocked and agog at these events. Now the sobering-up has to begin.

The world has effectively lost its nominal leader, the U.S. president. Is this going to be the new normal? If so—and it will be so if serious people don't step up—we are looking at a weakened U.S president who has a very, very long three years left on his term.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...9069291111631648.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop
 
It's sad that the right wing is focusing on a couple sentences in the last paragraph and blowing them out of proportion, while ignoring the 90% substance of Putin's letter. I for one find John McCain's twitter remarks distasteful. John McCain is frankly a moron, and he does not speak for me.
 
Which is in sharp contrast to what's allowed in Russia. IIRC 3 members of Pussy Riot got sentenced to 2 years in prison for offending Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church.

So its not allowable to speak directly to the American public in Russia, is that what you're saying? 😕
 
I find it highly illuminating that Putin gets a free pass for being a lying hypocrit because he's "right" about Syria. I strongly suspect if Russia was considering bombing some country and Obama wrote an op-ed containing a bunch of lies and hypocrisy - for example, stating that no country should ever act militarily without UN authorization - that there would be discussion of literally nothing else but Obama's lies and hypocrisy.

Yeah, keep swinging from the nutsacks of people like Putin and Assad just because they're in opposition to the Obama administration. Including when he lectures us about how "God" created us all "equal" after signing a bill that criminalizes open homosexuality in Russia.

Putin is a pig, and you guys are so transparent.

Exactly. I think nearly everyone in this discussion agrees that attacking Syria was/is a bad idea. So on the merits of the case in that respect, there isn't much to discuss. Even though Putin is doing it for bad reasons it's a good outcome that he was able to help dissuade Obama from bombing Assad. (IMO at least)

This thread is about the letter that Putin wrote, and the OP talked about how reasonable he sounded. This letter was nothing more than dishonest, hypocritical, self serving bullshit. The guy is a repressive dictator that has nothing but contempt for international law, yet he tries to lecture us on equal rights under god and respecting the principles of nonaggression? Fuck that guy.
 
The only reason we're talking about Putin is because of the Laurel and Hardy President we have.



http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...9069291111631648.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop

I'm gonna have to brush this article off as the baseless ranting of a desparate critic. Before Obama's efforts, Assad used chemical weapons to kill almost 1,500 civilians. Now thanks to Obama we have a diplomatic solution on the table that could very well remove those chemical weapons. And not a single American soldier was sent to Syria.

Contrast those developments to what we had 10 years ago, and I'd say that Obama is doing incredibly well.
 
Exactly. I think nearly everyone in this discussion agrees that attacking Syria was/is a bad idea. So on the merits of the case in that respect, there isn't much to discuss. Even though Putin is doing it for bad reasons it's a good outcome that he was able to help dissuade Obama from bombing Assad. (IMO at least)

This thread is about the letter that Putin wrote, and the OP talked about how reasonable he sounded. This letter was nothing more than dishonest, hypocritical, self serving bullshit. The guy is a repressive dictator that has nothing but contempt for international law, yet he tries to lecture us on equal rights under god and respecting the principles of nonaggression? Fuck that guy.

It's quite parallel to another thread where people were praising Assad's remarks in a recent media interview, wherein he repeatedly lies but does so "articulately."

I think for the anti-Obama crowd, the enemy of their enemy is their friend. Don't worry, they'll go back to hating lying hypocritical dictators like Putin and Assad once there's a republican in office.
 
I'm gonna have to brush this article off as the baseless ranting of a desparate critic. Before Obama's efforts, Assad used chemical weapons to kill almost 1,500 civilians. Now thanks to Obama we have a diplomatic solution on the table that could very well remove those chemical weapons. And not a single American soldier was sent to Syria.

Contrast those developments to what we had 10 years ago, and I'd say that Obama is doing incredibly well.

Shockingly enough, that author still thinks the Iraq war was a great idea, btw.
 
It's quite parallel to another thread where people were praising Assad's remarks in a recent media interview, wherein he repeatedly lies but does so "articulately."

I think for the anti-Obama crowd, the enemy of their enemy is their friend. Don't worry, they'll go back to hating lying hypocritical dictators like Putin and Assad once there's a republican in office.

I remember that. Assad is so awful he makes Putin look good, yet people were talking about how they respected Assad the genocidal dictator more than Obama.

I remember when conservatives referred to Bush Derangement Syndrome. How deranged do you have to be to be so full of praise for a mass murderer just because he opposes your own president?
 
I'm gonna have to brush this article off as the baseless ranting of a desparate critic. Before Obama's efforts, Assad used chemical weapons to kill almost 1,500 civilians. Now thanks to Obama we have a diplomatic solution on the table that could very well remove those chemical weapons. And not a single American soldier was sent to Syria.

Contrast those developments to what we had 10 years ago, and I'd say that Obama is doing incredibly well.
Obama's handling of this mess has been horrible...yet you act as if this was his plan all along. Surely you aren't that delusional.

Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while.
 
Woolfe9998, you're acting like we're voting Putin President. Chill out for a moment.

You want to call Putin a hypocrit? Fine. I don't object. His... honor and lack thereof is not nearly as important as whether President Obama is actively arming Islamic Terrorists in Syria. Actively harming the only government standing between them and Chemical Weapons.

There is a larger issue at stake here.

If all you want to talk about is Putin touting the international "law", fine, but the United States both present and past administrations have worked to undermine it. So I guess we ARE all created equal.

Moreover, I'm pretty sure American exceptionalism died in our response to September 11th. Of Patriot Acts, Iraq, the TSA and NSA. Americans are vigorously abused by their government. It is dangerous to pretend otherwise, to try and sweep our own crimes against ourselves and others under the rug in order to maintain a Sean Hannity-esq style of American Patriotism and Fascism.

Stop being worried about saving face and calling others hypocrites and start worrying about solving our very serious internal problems. We need to start being on the correct side of things, and assisting Al Qaeda is NOT correct.

Maybe you should thank Putin for trying to stop us there, instead of flipping out over trivialities.

I don't want to sweep anything under the rug. Our problems are our problems, and we can discuss/debate them amongst ourselves. However, I'm not all that interested in listening to outsiders lecture us over matters for which they are as bad or worse. And lecturing us by way of inserting propaganda into our own newspapers no less. I'm curious if American presidents are permitted to place "op-ed" pieces in Russian newspapers, in an attempt to sway Russian public opinion against their leaders. The fact that we allow this sort of thing where they undoubtedly would never allow it speaks volumes about the differences between the two societies and political systems. I'm sorry, but when the head of state of an oppressive dictatorship like Russia takes advantage of freedoms which exist in our system but do not exist in theirs, it doesn't sit well with me.

No sir, we do not need Vladimir Putin lecturing us about anything because unlike in his country, we have the freedom to be self-critical. And I don't need to "thank" him for anything because he is acting 100% in Russian interests. If at any time a course of action he suggests turns out to be right for the US, it's entirely coincidental.
 
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I remember that. Assad is so awful he makes Putin look good, yet people were talking about how they respected Assad the genocidal dictator more than Obama.

I remember when conservatives referred to Bush Derangement Syndrome. How deranged do you have to be to be so full of praise for a mass murderer just because he opposes your own president?
Who exactly are these people praising Assad for opposing Obama? You have quotes or are you making this up?
 
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Not correct. Russia holds the record for security council vetoes by a wide margin. (unless you're not counting Soviet Union vetoes as Russian vetoes, but that would no longer be an apples to apples comparison)

Yeah I dont count the Soviet Unions vetoes against Russia. Why would you? And even if you did the vast majority of Soviet votes happend over 50 years ago. Anything past the mid 80s and the US has quite a bit more than Russia\crumbling Soviet Union.


As for what points I disagree with:

- There is not 'every reason to believe' that the Syrian opposition gassed themselves. While it is not 100% certain that it was government forces that conducted the attack it is by far the most likely answer. If you look at Russia's record in the Security Council on Syria Putin's duplicitous statement here is nothing new.

This is a really minor point in the piece imo. A valid critcism but imo not worth fretting over.

- The idea that the Security Council would go the way of the League of Nations if the US engaged in a military intervention is obviously wrong as proven by...well... all the other times the US engaged in a military intervention without the UN collapsing.

I think his point is the UN would go the way of the LoN when it comes to having credibility to stop aggression. And I think he has a point. And you are proving it by pointing out all the times security member nations have disregarded the UN. And this point comes into play when certain nations are trying to acquire WMD. They dont have confidence the UN will stop aggressor nations(mainly the united states). So they are taking defense into their own hands.

- "We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law". That's a transparent lie, as shown by Russia's actions since 2011. The idea that the conflict is fueled by foreign weapons given to the opposition is 1.) also a lie. and 2.) neglects to mention that Russia is arming the Syrian government.

You chopped off the point of bringing this up. International law requires authorization for the use of force by the UN unless in self defense. Unless we get the security council to authorize our use of force. We are in violation of international law.

I am curious who you believe is funding\supplying weapons to the rebels? In the videos I have seen they are using rather sophisticated equipment for a poor rebel army. A lot of western equipment with western optics.

And of course now we have this.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...cf2ed8-1b0c-11e3-a628-7e6dde8f889d_story.html


- Most of the consequences he mentions (nonproliferation, etc) would happen with or without US intervention in Syria.

I could go on.

i think his proliferation is the strongest part of his piece. Iran, NK, and Syria. Two of the three axis of evil are or have developed nuclear weapons in the last decade? Why would they go about doing such a thing now? We like to believe it is because they want to funnel it to a terrorist organization to detonate on our home soil. Makes for a nice Tom Clancy novel. But what are the chances we will invade NK now? Once Iran goes nuclear think we dare step foot in their borders? Iran watching Iraq and Afghanistan go boom and now Syria about to go boom. It makes complete logical sense for self preservation to develope a nuclear weapon.

As for the spread of terrorism. What do you think people in the ME will think when seeing American bombs dropping on another ME capital unprovoked? Think they will run to join our side or the side of the nutjobs? How about after a drone kills their friends and family?

As for the rest of his piece. It is pretty spot on. Discusses civilian casualties from our bombs, the examples of our interventions killing so many and solving nothing(Iraq,Afghanistan), and our getting involved with civil wars that ends not so well for everybody involved.

As an anecdote. On the anniversary of Benghazi killing 4 US citizens, including a diplomat. A car bomb detonates in Benghazi.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/explosion-damages-libya-foreign-ministry-article-1.1451904

Mission accomplished!
 
This thread is about the letter that Putin wrote, and the OP talked about how reasonable he sounded. This letter was nothing more than dishonest, hypocritical, self serving bullsh*t.

The accusations of self serving BS and hypocrisy etc can be applied to pretty much every politician, most certainly including our dear leader. The messenger is not relevant as to whether the message is correct. I think his op-ed was correct, even if it's completely hypocritical coming from him.

You just don't like the fact that a scumbag like Putin once again showed how pathetic our dear leader is on the big stage when he doesn't have a teleprompter to give him the answer.
 
The accusations of self serving BS and hypocrisy etc can be applied to pretty much every politician, most certainly including our dear leader. The messenger is not relevant as to whether the message is correct. I think his op-ed was correct, even if it's completely hypocritical coming from him.

You just don't like the fact that a scumbag like Putin once again showed how pathetic our dear leader is on the big stage when he doesn't have a teleprompter to give him the answer.

The fact that you repeatedly use "dear leader" in reference to Obama shows exactly where your own objectivity lies. I strongly suspect if this was Obama writing something "correct, but hypocritical" your reaction would be all about the hypocrisy and more about the messenger than the message.

Clearly for you partisanship doesn't end at our nation's border.
 
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