Push for $15 minimum wage

[JSt0rm]

They'd pay for it one way or the other.

Your simple rigid mind cant get past our current economic system. You are exactly the kind of person it will leave behind.

 

[buckshot24]

Your simple rigid mind cant get past our current economic system. You are exactly the kind of person it will leave behind.

How does my supposed simple mind show that free things offered by government doesn't have a cost to those who receive them? It doesn't. Do you have anything other than a fallacy or not?

 

[JSt0rm]

free things offered by government doesn't have a cost to those who receive them? It doesn't

We will be beyond the current economic model OR there will be tons of pain and suffering. Kinda glad I dont live fully in that transition period. We will see it first with automatic cars. Very interested to witness what we do.

 

[buckshot24]

We will be beyond the current economic model OR there will be tons of pain and suffering. Kinda glad I dont live fully in that transition period. We will see it first with automatic cars. Very interested to witness what we do.

Did you quote me dishonestly or did you just make a mistake?

Are you hoping we go back to digging ditches by hand? Don't you think that not wasting our time on things we can do more efficiently may actually increase our productivity? How could it not?

 

[JSt0rm]

when did I argue we shouldn't move forward?

 

[1prophet]

A minimum income does not mean they have as good a life as someone who is successful.

Exactly, and as long as the end consumer is willing to pay for shoddy workmanship, lower quality, poor service over and over again, it should be no problem for employers filling their ranks with employees that can barely chew gum and walk at the same time, if they even bother showing up to work.

 

[elitejp]

Im all for Jstorms society of everything being given to me for free and me sitting around and doing whatever I want. Throw in the option of me being able to pick whatever hot girl that I want for the day and you got my vote. Afterall we just want a better quality of life.

 

[JSt0rm]

Im all for Jstorms society of everything being given to me for free and me sitting around and doing whatever I want. Throw in the option of me being able to pick whatever hot girl that I want for the day and you got my vote. Afterall we just want a better quality of life.

Fleshlight and vr goggles and you get it all. Vote jst0rm.

 

[Meghan54]

Maybe for large companies, but what about small businesses?

My dad is a mechanic in the Bay Area of CA. His shop is near a 2 High Schools and kids have come looking for a job. He could pay a kid a few $ to clean the shop, but that is about it. He would benefit and the kid would benefit, but he cannot. That is because the cost of labor is simply too high for it to be worth it. So, he cleans his own shop, and the HS kid does not get the job.

So, what you're saying is that your dad is incapable of hiring HS kids part time? I only ask because full time students that work are exempt from receiving the full minimum wage and are restricted on the number of hours they can work. They are covered to 85% of min. wage. and limited to 20 hrs. of work per week while in school.

Here's the relevant part of the Fair Labor Standards Act that covers this:

Full-Time Student Program


This program is for full-time students employed in retail or service stores, agriculture, or colleges and universities. The employer that hires students can obtain a certificate from the Department of Labor which allows the student to be paid not less than 85% of the minimum wage. The certificate also limits the hours that the student may work to 8 hours in a day and no more than 20 hours a week when school is in session and 40 hours when school is out, and requires the employer to follow all child labor laws. Once students graduate or leave school for good, they must be paid at least the Federal minimum wage.

http://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/docs/ftsplink.asp

 

[elitejp]

Fleshlight and vr goggles and you get it all. Vote jst0rm.

so its basically a fantasy world no matter how you cut it

 

[elitejp]

So, what you're saying is that your dad is incapable of hiring HS kids part time? I only ask because full time students that work are exempt from receiving the full minimum wage and are restricted on the number of hours they can work. They are covered to 85% of min. wage. and limited to 20 hrs. of work per week while in school.

its still 12.75 an hr for part time work.

 

[Newbian]

its still 12.75 an hr for part time work.

If you hire a kid for a hour or two a day to clean up or so and you can't make up that with actual work you can profit from in that type of job then you are running the business wrong.

As a mechanic having more uptime vs downtime of just cleaning up should be worth it.

 

[elitejp]

your limiting minimum wage to businesses that only need a couple of hrs of work a week needed to help them out. What about the other businesses that they are hiring minimum wage people to keep the shop open for 12hr days like fast food places or shops in the mall. In these situations you have a staff of multiple people. How many cashiers do you need in a grocery store to be open for a 14hr day 7 days a week? thats a 98hr week where a grocery store would need to pay anywhere from 1250 dollars to almost 1500 depending on whether they can hire part time school kids or need to hire graduates. Now multiply that by how many registers you want to have open.

Salary is a huge cost in any business. Insurance, rent, supplies all factor in to running a business. Most places arent making huge profits. The bigger places are making enough to want to stay open. Many smaller places are already in a catch 22 position where they arent making money but if they close down they will lose even more. When they shut down they file bankruptcy and lose most of what they have, the employees take a vacation and when they feel like it start looking for a new job

 

[Orignal Earl]

Im all for Jstorms society of everything being given to me for free and me sitting around and doing whatever I want. Throw in the option of me being able to pick whatever hot girl that I want for the day and you got my vote. Afterall we just want a better quality of life.

your limiting minimum wage to businesses that only need a couple of hrs of work a week needed to help them out. What about the other businesses that they are hiring minimum wage people to keep the shop open for 12hr days like fast food places or shops in the mall. In these situations you have a staff of multiple people. How many cashiers do you need in a grocery store to be open for a 14hr day 7 days a week? thats a 98hr week where a grocery store would need to pay anywhere from 1250 dollars to almost 1500 depending on whether they can hire part time school kids or need to hire graduates. Now multiply that by how many registers you want to have open.

Salary is a huge cost in any business. Insurance, rent, supplies all factor in to running a business. Most places arent making huge profits. The bigger places are making enough to want to stay open. Many smaller places are already in a catch 22 position where they arent making money but if they close down they will lose even more. When they shut down they file bankruptcy and lose most of what they have, the employees take a vacation and when they feel like it start looking for a new job

May I ask you what your skill set is?

 

[Spungo]

Your simple rigid mind cant get past our current economic system. You are exactly the kind of person it will leave behind.

I'm so glad our experiments with mice have proven that socialism actually does work, and it doesn't lead to 1 mouse doing 99% of the work while 2 other mice live like parasites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si4uof3Y-Wo


edit
I should add more detail to this. I'm not arguing that all social safety nets are bad. I'm a huge supporter of helping the poor. My point is that utopia does not exist. Having an unequal system that is mostly capitalistic is the only system that seems to work. For a very long time, Scandinavia had a very free market system, and they had the fastest growth in the world. Once they went too far into socialism, growth dramatically slowed down. Even the social democrats in Sweden had to eat their own hats and admit too much socialism was a problem, and they reformed their system to be a little more on the side of free markets.

 

[fskimospy]

You guys realize there's actually quite a bit of research on the employment effects of minimum wage, right? It mostly says that there is either no net effect on employment or at most a small negative one.

This is why anecdotal evidence is bad.

 

[glenn1]

I'm so glad our experiments with mice have proven that socialism actually does work, and it doesn't lead to 1 mouse doing 99% of the work while 2 other mice live like parasites.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si4uof3Y-Wo

Mouse #3 must be a Republican because if he were a Democrat he'd just be shouting "collective action problem" in Mouse language.

 

[Spungo]

Mouse #3 must be a Republican because if he were a Democrat he'd just be shouting "collective action problem" in Mouse language.

Mouse #2 is calling mouse #3 a racist.

 

[ivwshane]

You guys realize there's actually quite a bit of research on the employment effects of minimum wage, right? It mostly says that there is either no net effect on employment or at most a small negative one.

This is why anecdotal evidence is bad.

They chose to ignore it. I already explained it to them and linked to a relevant study.

 

[BoberFett]

You guys realize there's actually quite a bit of research on the employment effects of minimum wage, right? It mostly says that there is either no net effect on employment or at most a small negative one.

This is why anecdotal evidence is bad.

First, let's assume that the minimum wage is perfectly spherical and in a vacuum...

 

[fskimospy]

They chose to ignore it. I already explained it to them and linked to a relevant study.

It is pretty amusing to watch a bunch of people act like they are hard nosed realists when they are actually deliberately ignoring research so they can keep living in their fantasy world.

 

[JSt0rm]

I'm so glad our experiments with mice have proven that socialism actually does work, and it doesn't lead to 1 mouse doing 99% of the work while 2 other mice live like parasites.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si4uof3Y-Wo


edit
I should add more detail to this. I'm not arguing that all social safety nets are bad. I'm a huge supporter of helping the poor. My point is that utopia does not exist. Having an unequal system that is mostly capitalistic is the only system that seems to work. For a very long time, Scandinavia had a very free market system, and they had the fastest growth in the world. Once they went too far into socialism, growth dramatically slowed down. Even the social democrats in Sweden had to eat their own hats and admit too much socialism was a problem, and they reformed their system to be a little more on the side of free markets.

These are very good points for today. But in the future with automation doing most of everything what are people going to do? Capitalism breaks down at the point when there is a certain % of people who did everything right but there are no jobs for them.

 

[mizzou]

$15.00 is ridiculous. Anywhere except major urban centers where COL is extremely high, $15.00 is just too high. There is no reason the market rate should all of a sudden make minimum wage jobs compete with educated labor markets.

People who went to school for social services and enjoy working in that field should not be paid less or equal to a fast food employee.

Sorry, but it's too much.

Now....the current min. wage is too low. $15.00 across the board is just silly and overreaching.

 

[JSt0rm]

Educated labor market is in the 15 range? Damn that's sad.

 

[WackyDan]

I already said why. Do you want a wall-e world? No. We want people enriched via whatever they want and higher education can give them that. All of the things people hate about higher edu are the things that will have value in the future. Literature, Art studies, film studies, music. These things have a de-emphasis in todays world. In the future they wont and they will need more edu to perfect.

We don't need free education for those that wish to learn the finer things in life when they aren't going to apply them being productive for society. I would suggest the education would need to be free for those wanting to be doctors, scientists and engineers... Those are the jobs that will still exist.