Pull a 9500pro Insert 9600xt

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ruckas
I don't want to get off topic to much. But does the 9800 none pro have 8 pixel pipelines?

Thanks, Ruckas-

Yup, and so did your 9500 pro!!!. Your shiny new 9600XT has only 4. So, in a way, you downgraded.

what does it matter if there it has 4 pipelines and it performs better?

if i'm not mistaken, the 5900 is only 4 pipelines. so does that mean it is slower than an 8 pipeline 9500 pro?

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: Blastman
The 9500 series scores on 3Dmark2001 are inflated when you compare them to actual game benchmarks. I would give a small edge to the 9600XT but at high resolutions like 1600x1200 the 9500pro would probably have the edge. A 9500pro and 9600XT are generally very close in performance so if the 9600XT is cheaper you could potentially save money and get HL2 free.

This review has a 9600XT and 9500pro in it ?

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTQwLDM=

IMHO, neither card will sufficently run newer games @ 1600*1200

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ruckas
I don't want to get off topic to much. But does the 9800 none pro have 8 pixel pipelines?

Thanks, Ruckas-

Yup, and so did your 9500 pro!!!. Your shiny new 9600XT has only 4. So, in a way, you downgraded.

what does it matter if there it has 4 pipelines and it performs better?

if i'm not mistaken, the 5900 is only 4 pipelines. so does that mean it is slower than an 8 pipeline 9500 pro?

You are mistaken in a way. Fx5900 is a 4x2 pipeline design, so it works like a 8x1 for some things and 4x1 for another ones.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Evdawg
mmm.... i would disagree with overclocked to 9700 speeds

i'm talking about stock VS stock

also, a 9500 pro clocked to 9700 speeds would perform nearly as well as a 9700 cuz its 128 bit vs 256 bit

9500 pro is 256bit.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Evdawg
mmm.... i would disagree with overclocked to 9700 speeds

i'm talking about stock VS stock

also, a 9500 pro clocked to 9700 speeds would perform nearly as well as a 9700 cuz its 128 bit vs 256 bit

9500 pro is 256bit.

Is 128bit memory bus.

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: McArra
I wouldn't change a 9500Pro with a 9600XT. 8 Pipelines vs 4.... I think 8 is winner for the near future.

9600 XT beats 9500 pro in 30 out of 36 tests

seems to me the 9600 XT is the clear winner

I don't think so. Look what happens in DX9.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: McArra

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: Evdawg
mmm.... i would disagree with overclocked to 9700 speeds

i'm talking about stock VS stock

also, a 9500 pro clocked to 9700 speeds would perform nearly as well as a 9700 cuz its 128 bit vs 256 bit

9500 pro is 256bit.

Is 128bit memory bus.

correct

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: McArra

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: McArra
I wouldn't change a 9500Pro with a 9600XT. 8 Pipelines vs 4.... I think 8 is winner for the near future.

9600 XT beats 9500 pro in 30 out of 36 tests

seems to me the 9600 XT is the clear winner

I don't think so. Look what happens in DX9.

The 9600 XT is better for the price. $155 vs. $179.
If you plan on OC'ing and get it to 550MHz, they should be even, at worst. Otherwise it's a toss-up, and I can't see any reason to 'upgrade' to a 9600 Pro o r XT.

 

[Richdog]

Christ, a three second GOOGLE SEARCH would answer just about all of the questions in here, I wish people would use it. 9500 PRO is 128-bit memory bus, 9500 non-pro was 256-bit memory bus hence why some of them could be modded to 9700's.

A 9600XT is indeed marginally faster than a 9500PRO in the majority of situations, but blatantly not enough to justify an upgrade unless you get it free. What people seem to forget is that the speed difference would be between a few percent max i.e. not enough to notice in anything other than benchmarks, it's barely an upgrade at all.

As for swapping the card without re-installing drivers, it should be fine. The Catalys drivers, like Nvidia's detonator drivers, are unified... which they pretty much cover all of the Radeon family.

As always someone correct me if i'm wrong.:beer:

 

[McArra]

Originally posted by: Richdog
Christ, a three second GOOGLE SEARCH would answer just about all of the questions in here, I wish people would use it. 9500 PRO is 128-bit memory bus, 9500 non-pro was 256-bit memory bus hence why some of them could be modded to 9700's.

A 9600XT is indeed marginally faster than a 9500PRO in the majority of situations, but blatantly not enough to justify an upgrade unless you get it free. What people seem to forget is that the speed difference would be between a few percent max i.e. not enough to notice in anything other than benchmarks, it's barely an upgrade at all.

As for swapping the card without re-installing drivers, it should be fine. The Catalys drivers, like Nvidia's detonator drivers, are unified... which they pretty much cover all of the Radeon family.

As always someone correct me if i'm wrong.:beer:

It's a very little of an upgrade in some games but a bigger downgrade in others. Upgrade is 2-3fps in some past gen games, but a 4-7fps downgrade for new gen ones and UT2003. I'll keep the 9500pro.

 

[sandorski]

I would Uninstall the drivers, just to be safe.

That said, **you must** uninstall the 9500 Pro from Device Manager first. Not doing so will result in a borked system.

 

[Ruckas]

well, I have been playing all the games I own at 1280x1024 with everything maxed. No chopping, or crappy gameplay. That's a big increase for me. However I'm just worried I got screwed. Because I spent $234.00 bucks on this 9500pro. When I could get the very same scores with a $200.00 9600xt (and HL2)..

I'm a college kid. I'm broke as all hell.. So every penny counts; you know?

By the way, it says right on the box, that it's a 128bit memory bus.. It also has Infineon memory, I checked my buddies 9600xt, it has samsung memory. Which is yet another reason I'm seriously considering taking this back. I have 11 more days...

Thank you guys for all your advice, I really appreciate it.

Ruckas-

 

[Richdog]

Ohh... I didnt realize you could still get a full refund for it. If so then definately take it back and get a 9600XT, you'll save the money and lose no performance. It's a no-brainer.:beer:

 

[Cerb]

ditto richdog. If you can get your money back on thr 9500 Pro, get a 9600 XT for $170 or less (or a bit more w/ the HL2 voucher) and have fun.

 

[Ruckas]

I'm trying to use Driver Cleaner right now to get rid of the drivers. My buddy is bringing his 9600xt over. After uninstalling the uninstall utility, and the control panel (as was suggested). I reboot so I can use the driver cleaner. Only Win ME just reinstalls the old drivers, putting me back at square one. I do I tell it NOT to install the 3.10s again? Is there a key I hit when it goes "found new hardware?" Dah, same crap used to happen with my Nvidia drivers. I think ME is crapified so if someone deletes a bunch of stuff, it will "save the day."

My plan is to install the 9600xt, run both 3dmarks, and play a little quake 3 RA3, wolfenstien ET, Generals and Tribes 2.. Compare FPS...

Oh, and Richdog, that's why I buy chips retail, so I can take it back if something goes horribly wrong.

Wurd-

Ruckas-

 

[Cerb]

Worst case, start in safe mode and then reinstall the 3.10s (not let it do anything...tell it nothing is there but a standard VGA controller, and install them). Maybe that won't work, as WinME is crap, but it should.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ruckas
I don't want to get off topic to much. But does the 9800 none pro have 8 pixel pipelines?

Thanks, Ruckas-

Yup, and so did your 9500 pro!!!. Your shiny new 9600XT has only 4. So, in a way, you downgraded.

what does it matter if there it has 4 pipelines and it performs better?

if i'm not mistaken, the 5900 is only 4 pipelines. so does that mean it is slower than an 8 pipeline 9500 pro?

Are we really gonna do this? ::sigh::

Ok here we go. This lad just ditched his 9500pro (which is an awesome card) for a similarly capable 9600XT. Shady, would you upgrade to a 9600XT from a 9500pro? Of course you wouldn't. Your next "worthwhile upgrade would have to be at least a 9700pro or 9800np to justify that upgrade. And we are not comparing Nvidia to ATI (apples to oranges thing. 4 pipe architecture/eight pipe architecture). I would like to see you ( lifer status into consideration here) tell me that this persons upgrade was wise and just, or did he just make a misinformed impulse purchase. Is the performance gain (which is minimal) worth the money? Nope.

So yes, driver cleaner2 should work nicely and someone here mentioned a Cat uninstaller available on the ATI website.
Keys

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: shady06

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ruckas
I don't want to get off topic to much. But does the 9800 none pro have 8 pixel pipelines?

Thanks, Ruckas-

Yup, and so did your 9500 pro!!!. Your shiny new 9600XT has only 4. So, in a way, you downgraded.

what does it matter if there it has 4 pipelines and it performs better?

if i'm not mistaken, the 5900 is only 4 pipelines. so does that mean it is slower than an 8 pipeline 9500 pro?

Are we really gonna do this? ::sigh::

Ok here we go. This lad just ditched his 9500pro (which is an awesome card) for a similarly capable 9600XT. Shady, would you upgrade to a 9600XT from a 9500pro? Of course you wouldn't. Your next "worthwhile upgrade would have to be at least a 9700pro or 9800np to justify that upgrade. And we are not comparing Nvidia to ATI (apples to oranges thing. 4 pipe architecture/eight pipe architecture). I would like to see you ( lifer status into consideration here) tell me that this persons upgrade was wise and just, or did he just make a misinformed impulse purchase. Is the performance gain (which is minimal) worth the money? Nope.

So yes, driver cleaner2 should work nicely and someone here mentioned a Cat uninstaller available on the ATI website.
Keys

i never said i would make that upgrade, but it certainly isnt a "downgrade" because it is 4 pipelines. and i am not trying to compare ATi and nvidia, i;m just trying to make the point that just because it is a 4 pipline card, it doesnt necesarily mean it is a downgrade...

 

[Keysplayr]

I certainly agree with you. But it is certain that when you drop 4 piplines in the same architecture, something is getting sacrificed. The 9600XT is almost twice the clock speed of the 9500pro. Drop the 9600XT to 9500 pro speeds and you have a slug.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I certainly agree with you. But it is certain that when you drop 4 piplines in the same architecture, something is getting sacrificed. The 9600XT is almost twice the clock speed of the 9500pro. Drop the 9600XT to 9500 pro speeds and you have a slug.

We already had that: the Radeon 9500. If it didn't mod to a 9700, you had a crappy card, even with the 256-bit memory.

 

[Corporate Thug]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
I certainly agree with you. But it is certain that when you drop 4 piplines in the same architecture, something is getting sacrificed. The 9600XT is almost twice the clock speed of the 9500pro. Drop the 9600XT to 9500 pro speeds and you have a slug.

i agree with that, core/mem speeds is a way to compensate for less pipes

 

[Ruckas]

Ok, so when you sacrifice the 4 pipelines and increase the speed of the gpu and memory. Wouldn't that shorten the life of the video card as a whole?

I'm hoping that asking these simple questions will help not only myself. But other users who are perhaps in a similar situation..

I've noticed in comparison to my Gf2u. Where when I'm playing a game with everything maxed, say wolfenstien ET. At a high resolution, I could turn off all the settings, and go up a resolution which would add frames. However, with the 9500pro. I can keep piling stuff on, and the framerate always stays solid. It's almost as if the card is going "keep it comin!"

I haven't sold it yet. I still have 8 more days. My buddy backed out from letting me install his 9600xt. Said he wants to wait a little bit.. He's just worried I'm going to mess it up.. Heh.. I've installed several video cards. But he just got it, so I can't blame him.

BTW, america is going to take over the world soon. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Thanks for all the advice guys...Gonna go kill some nazis MuwahahhahHH!

Ruckas-

 

[Ruckas]

oh! and one more question!

What is AGP Apature? I noticed it in my bios, it's set to 128mb. But it can go up to 256mb... Would someone mind explaining what it does? Maybe what would happen if I put it up to 256?

Thanks alot..
Ruckas-

 

[Corporate Thug]

Ok, so when you sacrifice the 4 pipelines and increase the speed of the gpu and memory. Wouldn't that shorten the life of the video card as a whole?

not at all, both the core and memory are rated to run at those speeds

 

[Ruckas]

ok, so the higher clock speed of the GPU/memory, the hotter the chip gets? Therefor the more cooling required? My 9500pro runs quite a bit hotter than my old geforce2 ultra. Even when it's just doing 2D stuff.

Also, after viewing this, I've decided I should take back my 9500pro. This guy has 100 more mhz on his cpu, with the exact same system. Only he's killing my 9500pro with a 9600xt.

Thanks, Ruckas-