PSA: Taxes on ALL ONLINE purchases are imminent

[Kamrooz]

This is a sad day for online shopping =*(. But it was inevitable....But in a bright note. At least when people come into my store (Work at an electronics store) and ask to price match, and complain about not having to pay tax online, I could tell them otherwise and to piss off =P.

 

[Craig234]

Why would you point out things that were put in place before half this board was born? They've steadily went downhill over time and it's pretty much a given Social Security is just a money sink these days for anyone not already retired.

Like I said, last 10 years. Things are not like they were in the 50's. Hi guys, did you know they banned slavery? And I think women can vote now.

ss - 1935
Medicare - 1966
Unions - 1886
Freedom of Information Act - 1966
Nuclear Test Ban Treaty - 1963

Since your question is actually addressed to me, because I was making a point.

Good government actually really is a good thing. That's a society where the people's interests are represented.

It did things like greatly increase our freedom - real freedom, not some tea party abuse of the word that calls the pollution of a river 'freedom' - and create the middle class.

Since about Reagan, we've had this nasty shift, where 'government is the problem' - and the people who say that make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. The people AREN'T represented much. They're the reason one of my favorite political quotes, from anonymous, is "Politicians have to LOOK good to voters, and DO good for donors".

That's why CEO pay has gone from 25 times workers to 300 times workers, why the top 1% has greatly increased its ownership of all financial wealth to the vast majority of it, and their share of income something like 300% from 8% to 24% IIRC, why our economic productivity has shot up for decades more than doubling our economy, but unlike normal times when everyone shares in the increase, all of it has gone to a few at the top, and many more things - as our political system has been corrupted by the money of those few.

The problem is, many people don't even understand what 'good government' is, don't understand any benefits of democracy anymore; for them the problems with 'corrupt government' are simply problems with 'government'. Government is just NEVER good, can't do anything good for the people. These people would pretty much happily throw the American experiement out the window, because it's become hijacked, making what could be a temporary disaster into a permanent one.

You cited a couple historical things - the banning of slavery, and the right for women to vote. Except we're sliding back even there in ways. Effective slavery - human trafficking, and especially slave-like conditions for workers in many places including US territories, is exploding. The Marianas islands are one example where horrific slave conditions existed for some factory owners to profit; when discovered, the entire Senate voted for reform *unanimously*, but the owners paid off Republican House leadership who were given paid golf trips to see the place, and who promised the factory leaders the legislation wouldnever get a vote in the House - which it didn't until Democrats took over.

Chinese young women were lured under false pretenses, paid far under minimum wage locked in by barbed wire, subjected to forced abortions and prostitution - all to get the desired "Made in the USA" label on the clothes they made. Tom DeLay blocked the legislation and at a party for the business owners toasted them, as reported:

"When one of my closest and dearest friends, Jack Abramoff, your most able representative in Washington, D.C., invited me to the islands, I wanted to see firsthand the free-market success and the progress and reform you have made," DeLay said before an audience of Abramoff's clients in the islands' garment industry—whom, upon his return to Washington, he helped win an extended exemption from federal immigration and labor laws.

Not disgusting enough?

In August 1999, Abramoff's firm, Greenberg Traurig (which, all told, received $4.04 million from 1998 to 2002 from the Commonwealth), hired Millennium Marketing (a division of the Ralph Reed-founded Century Strategies) to "sen[d] out a mailer to Alabama conservative Christians asking them to call then-Rep. Bob Riley (R-Ala.) and tell him to vote against legislation that would have made the CNMI subject to federal minimum wage laws. "The radical left, the Big Labor Union Bosses, and Bill Clinton want to pass a law preventing Chinese from coming to work on the Marianas Islands," the mailer from Reed's firm said. The Chinese workers, it added, "are exposed to the teachings of Jesus Christ" while on the islands, and many "are converted to the Christian faith and return to China with Bibles in hand."

This isn't unique. But far more than 'slavery', across the nation we have the biggest attacks on voting rights since the laws were improved in the 1960's. They are too numerous to list, but include fraudulent anti-black voter purge lists, closing of early voting on weekends dominated by black voters, voter id laws that almost entirely affect Democratic voters, lines of many hours discouraging voting, rampant gerrymandering (a million more Americans voted for Democrats to the House in 2012, but Republicans got a solid majority; in some states where Democrats got a majority of the votes, Republicans took 75% or more of the seats); same-day registration is under attack, voter-registration drives are under attacks; the League of Women of Voters has stopped operating where outrageous laws making them vulnerable to large penalties were passed, the voter registration act from 1965 is being challenged in the Supreme Court this year, and much more. So, yes, it's worth nothing the contrast with 'good government' when laws to help those things were passed.

So I answered you with a reminder that there is such a thing as 'good government', to remind people who as you note have never experienced much of it, that it can be one.

And in answering you that way, I was sort of agreeing with your point that there isn't nearly enough to cite of good government happening for the last ten years.

There's still a lot that is still functioning, but not much new that has passed. Air quality is far, far better in our cities that it was when the EPA was created, because the EPA still functions in areas. For all our neglect of climate change, the benefits of our curtailing the use of CFC's to protect the ozone layer are still enjoyed. We still have Social Security and Medicare and many other good things - they would just never pass today.

Save234

 

[ImpulsE69]

Since your question is actually addressed to me, because I was making a point.

Good government actually really is a good thing. That's a society where the people's interests are represented.

It did things like greatly increase our freedom - real freedom, not some tea party abuse of the word that calls the pollution of a river 'freedom' - and create the middle class.

Since about Reagan, we've had this nasty shift, where 'government is the problem' - and the people who say that make it a self-fulfilling prophecy. The people AREN'T represented much. They're the reason one of my favorite political quotes, from anonymous, is "Politicians have to LOOK good to voters, and DO good for donors".

That's why CEO pay has gone from 25 times workers to 300 times workers, why the top 1% has greatly increased its ownership of all financial wealth to the vast majority of it, and their share of income something like 300% from 8% to 24% IIRC, why our economic productivity has shot up for decades more than doubling our economy, but unlike normal times when everyone shares in the increase, all of it has gone to a few at the top, and many more things - as our political system has been corrupted by the money of those few.

The problem is, many people don't even understand what 'good government' is, don't understand any benefits of democracy anymore; for them the problems with 'corrupt government' are simply problems with 'government'. Government is just NEVER good, can't do anything good for the people. These people would pretty much happily throw the American experiement out the window, because it's become hijacked, making what could be a temporary disaster into a permanent one.

So I answered you with a reminder that there is such a thing as 'good government', to remind people who as you note have never experienced much of it, that it can be one.

And in answering you that way, I was sort of agreeing with your point that there isn't nearly enough to cite of good government happening for the last ten years.

There's still a lot that is still functioning, but not much new that has passed. Air quality is far, far better in our cities that it was when the EPA was created, because the EPA still functions in areas. For all our neglect of climate change, the benefits of our curtailing the use of CFC's to protect the ozone layer are still enjoyed. We still have Social Security and Medicare and many other good things - they would just never pass today.

Yea, I kind of wondered if that was your point, but didn't quite come off that way. The internet tax isn't necessarily a bad thing in and of itself, but it is the reality of what it represents and one more slap in the face to the regular citizen when you look at everything that is in motion lately to take away freedoms and/or all the other counter-average citizen pro government/corporation movements. More taxation is not what the country needs. At this point, I would say that is the least of this country's problems, but by god, that's what we'll focus on.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Actually, the government does that very well generally, when it's actually running something. For example, take a look at the massive social security program - it has very low overhead and it's estimated that if it were privatized, the overhead to running it would INCREASE several times.

Now, government has waste - when we DON'T have the citizens represented, like the military weapons and financial sector policies. But that's not what gets cut first.

You're using a broken system as your example of a well run government program? Seriously?

SS is a ponzi scheme.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Whatever. I pay taxes on everything else. People need to quit bitching about it, really. Just because you got used to something doesn't mean you have the right to it. Everyone knew they were getting away with tax evasion from the beginning of online shopping.

That said, I'm definitely against taxes in general. The government doesn't need any more money.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Ah, just the kick bitcoin needs. While you guys are paying 4% in Paypal fees and 10% more in tax, I'll be buying things at a discount for bitcoin and paying neither.

Yeah... You still have to pay taxes on transactions involving bitcoins.

Speaking for purely informational purposes only...

An individual only has a basis in the bitcoins equal to the dollar value for which he originally purchased the bitcoins and if he exchanges the bitcoins for goods that have a fair market value in excess of that basis amount, he will owe income tax on the excess of the fair market value of the goods he received above his basis in the bitcoins.

Because that is income, he'll be taxed at income rates, which are significantly higher than sales tax rates.

Unless, of course, that individual intends to engage in tax evasion by failing to report the transactions to the IRS.

Most states also apply sales tax to barter transactions too, which is almost certainly how the IRS is going to characterize bitcoin transactions, so chances are that individuals will be liable for sales tax on purchases made with bitcoins.

Realistically speaking, it is all but certain that people will be liable for both income and sales tax on purchases made using bitcoins.

But hey, what do I know. I've only represented clients in front of the IRS Appeals Office. It's not like the IRS is aggressive in pursuing tax fraud or anything, after all.

ZV

***DISCLAIMER*** Per Treasury Department Circular 230: Any U.S. federal tax advice contained in this communication (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.

 

[Craig234]

You're using a broken system as your example of a well run government program? Seriously?

SS is a ponzi scheme.

No, actually, it's not 'broken', it's the most popular program in US history and one of the most beneficial, and minor tweaks have it continuing forever. It's not a "Ponzi Scheme".

In fact, before SS elder poverty was 90%. After SS, it graduall declined over decades until it reversed to 90% NOT in poverty. Even while there were more payments needed.

It's an enormous success on policy and moral grounds.

You can criticize the government borrowing from it, that's not SS's fault.

 

[ViRGE]

What about us Oregonians?

Life remains good for us.

 

[Chiropteran]

Yeah... You still have to pay taxes on transactions involving bitcoins.

You also had to pay "use tax" on online purchases, long before this thread. I wonder how many people were paying their use tax... hmm...

 

[Craig234]

You also had to pay "use tax" on online purchases, long before this thread. I wonder how many people were paying their use tax... hmm...

About 6%, according to reports I've seen. (I'm one of them, and resent the low rate).

It was created back around the 1930's as I recall.

 

[highland145]

About 6%, according to reports I've seen. (I'm one of them, and resent the low rate).

It was created back around the 1930's as I recall.

Why? My state sales tax is 6%.


Isn't it 5AM there? WTH are you doing up?

 

[PingSpike]

I have to admire the real reason Amazon supports this. Its because they're launching a tax collecting service for etailers for a fee of course. Which was really a brilliant move once they realized online sales tax was unavoidable.

Well, large companies can relatively easily able to absorb increased regulatory burdens and are capable to navigating complex tax codes whereas their smaller competitors are not in comparison. That's when they don't flat out use lobbying power to get themselves exempted. Like when mattel sold everyone those lead painted toys which caused congress to pass a law requiring inspections, which Mattel was then made exempt from and allowed to do it in house...even though they were the reason the law was passed. Big win for Mattel on that one. They got to sell lead painted toys for years and their reward when they got caught was congress hamstrung their competitors for them who had done nothing wrong previously.

That said the last I heard this bill as a million dollar annual sales cutoff where a company doesn't have to collect. Not that large companies are going to be remotely threatened by any entity with less than a million in sales. I wonder if some one will come up with a decentralized system to dodge the requirement. It'd probably be more trouble than it was worth though.

 

[exdeath]

How does this affect private sellers of used items or unopened unused new items that already had sales tax paid on them and then resold down the road?

 

[Anubis]

PSA i live in NY everything is taxed already

honestly i dont remember the last time i ordered something online and didnt pay tax on it

 

[PingSpike]

How does this affect private sellers of used items or unopened unused new items that already had sales tax paid on them and then resold down the road?

The last version of this bill I read about had a million dollar annual sales cutoff before the requirement to collect came into force. I have no idea if that is what the current version is though, I haven't been paying that close of attention.

 

[LTC8K6]

Amazon is probably in favor of it because it will bother the smaller competition more than it will bother Amazon. Amazon can deal with it more easily.

 

[BoomerD]

Why? My state sales tax is 6%.


Isn't it 5AM there? WTH are you doing up?

I think he means about 6% of the people who OWE the use tax actually pay it.

 

[highland145]

I think he means about 6% of the people who OWE the use tax actually pay it.

Got it. Thanks.


WTH are you doing up so early, pensioner?
Besides keeping me straight.


Oh, and my car, what you did was wrong.

 

[BoomerD]

Got it. Thanks.


WTH are you doing up so early, pensioner?
Besides keeping me straight.


Oh, and my car, what you did was wrong.

Can't fucking sleep.
Went to bed at 0200...woke up at 0500 and couldn't go back to sleep.

I see a nap in my future today.

 

[Anonemous]

Looks like eBay is sending out these emails to their users.

 

[Oakenfold]

Actually, the government does that very well generally, when it's actually running something. For example, take a look at the massive social security program - it has very low overhead and it's estimated that if it were privatized, the overhead to running it would INCREASE several times.

Now, government has waste - when we DON'T have the citizens represented, like the military weapons and financial sector policies. But that's not what gets cut first.

Disagree totally. Government keeps asking for more of my money and this is not okay.
I don't know why everyone is okay with paying taxes to begin with.

What is the justification for this tax increase? There should be an opt out to this. Any idiot that wants to pay this tax can go ahead, I'm tired of my money going to someone else.

If that means cuts to programs because the government didn't get to steal from me then so be it. This is legal theft out of my pocket and I don't agree with it.

 

[Craig234]

Disagree totally. Government keeps asking for more of my money and this is not okay.

I'm sorry that my adding qualifications is a waste of time with you.

"All states with sales taxes also have use taxes". "Not Oregon, they have no sales tax!"

I don't know why everyone is okay with paying taxes to begin with.

What is the justification for this tax increase? There should be an opt out to this. Any idiot that wants to pay this tax can go ahead, I'm tired of my money going to someone else.

If that means cuts to programs because the government didn't get to steal from me then so be it. This is legal theft out of my pocket and I don't agree with it.

Oh, you're one of those.

Let me file this... 9/11 truther... birther... flat worlder... here we go, all taxes are thefters.

 

[Craig234]

Looks like eBay is sending out these emails to their users.

Translation: "This will hurt our profits by taking away our unfair advantage over local stores on sales taxes, because 94% of people are tax cheats. So vote for our profits."

 

[Oakenfold]

I'm sorry that my adding qualifications is a waste of time with you.

"All states with sales taxes also have use taxes". "Not Oregon, they have no sales tax!"

Oh, you're one of those.

Let me file this... 9/11 truther... birther... flat worlder... here we go, all taxes are thefters.

You pay it then.
p.s. your qualifications are flawed. Social security is a scam and you know it.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

As long as us Oregonians arent charged sales tax, i'm for it. Our income tax is ridiculous.