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Info PSA- Public impeachments start today- UPDATE 2/5/2020- Trump wins.

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You know it was a bad day for Trump. Fox’s story is way down their front page and says “pundits say it was damaging to Trump” in the headline. Above that it’s all about the Dem debate and even a story on Peter Strzok.
 
So now that the Dems have been handed this whole Ukraine thing on a silver platter, how are they going to bone this up? First hand testimony where Sondland literally says it was a QPQ and all Republicans can do is attack the character of witnesses? Yet... Trump will probably still be in office to see a vote next year.
 
z1ggy said:
So now that the Dems have been handed this whole Ukraine thing on a silver platter, how are they going to bone this up? First hand testimony where Sondland literally says it was a QPQ and all Republicans can do is attack the character of witnesses? Yet... Trump will probably still be in office to see a vote next year.
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They won’t mess anything up but yes, Trump will still be in office to see a vote next year most likely. This is because Republicans know Trump is guilty and don’t care.
 
Looks like Fiona Hill is going to lay waste to the GOP/Trump assertion that somehow Ukraine was responsible for election meddling.

As she points out, this was something cooked up by the Russians and they have now adopted it. They are literally using a Russian talking point as justification to deny aid to an ally who engaged in open conflict with *checks notes* Russia.

In her opening remarks she is basically saying that Trump and the GOP are endangering the country.

“I have heard, some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country—and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves,” Hill will say during an impeachment hearing Thursday morning, according to prepared remarks obtained by the PBS NewsHour.
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As Republicans and Democrats have agreed for decades, Ukraine is a valued partner of the United States, and it plays an important role in our national security. And as I told this Committee last month, I refuse to be part of an effort to legitimize an alternate narrative that the Ukrainian government is a U.S. adversary, and that Ukraine—not Russia—attacked us in 2016.

These fictions are harmful even if they are deployed for purely domestic political purposes. President Putin and the Russian security services operate like a Super PAC. They deploy millions of dollars to weaponize our own political opposition research and false narratives. When we are consumed by partisan rancor, we cannot combat these external forces as they seek to divide us against each another, degrade our institutions, and destroy the faith of the American people in our democracy.
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www.pbs.org

Read Fiona Hill's full opening statement in Trump impeachment hearing

Fiona Hill, the Trump administration’s former Russia adviser, testified Thursday, along with David Holmes, a top staffer at the U.S. Embassy in Ukraine, in the impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump.
www.pbs.org www.pbs.org
 
Fiona Hill is taking direct aim at Nunes:
www.nbcnews.com

Former White House aide Fiona Hill tangles with GOP lawmakers over Ukraine meddling claims

Hill described Ambassador to the E.U. Gordon Sondland as running "domestic political errand" that would "blow up."
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

“Some of you on this committee appear to believe that Russia” and its spy services didn’t attack the U.S. in 2016 “and that perhaps, somehow, for some reason, Ukraine did.”

“In the course of this investigation, I would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance Russian interests,” Hill plans to say. “I refuse to be part of an effort to legitimize an alternate narrative that the Ukrainian government is a U.S. adversary, and that Ukraine — not Russia —attacked us in 2016.”

This gun be good!
 
This whole process is just depressing to me.

All this damning testimony from countless, collaborative sources and you damn well know, just like the 100s of Congress passed bills before it, this impeachment will go nowhere in the Senate. It's outcome will have little to no effect on the 2020 elections because the outcome lies in the hands of about 100,000 people in a few states. Those people are not going to change their minds no matter what the President is found guilty of doing.

Our system has been gamed and its flaws found and they will be exploited for a long time coming.
 
Homerboy said:
This whole process is just depressing to me.

All this damning testimony from countless, collaborative sources and you damn well know, just like the 100s of Congress passed bills before it, this impeachment will go nowhere in the Senate. It's outcome will have little to no effect on the 2020 elections because the outcome lies in the hands of about 100,000 people in a few states. Those people are not going to change their minds no matter what the President is found guilty of doing.

Our system has been gamed and its flaws found and they will be exploited for a long time coming.
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The outcome won’t come down to Trump supporters, there are simply too few of them to determine it. The outcome will come down to everyone else.

That aside though yes, it is deeply depressing that we have found out just how impotent and fragile the constitution turned out to be where we can’t even remove blatant criminals from office.
 
fskimospy said:
The outcome won’t come down to Trump supporters, there are simply too few of them to determine it. The outcome will come down to everyone else.

That aside though yes, it is deeply depressing that we have found out just how impotent and fragile the constitution turned out to be where we can’t even remove blatant criminals from office.
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It's time for a new constitution for sure.
 
Homerboy said:
This whole process is just depressing to me.

All this damning testimony from countless, collaborative sources and you damn well know, just like the 100s of Congress passed bills before it, this impeachment will go nowhere in the Senate. It's outcome will have little to no effect on the 2020 elections because the outcome lies in the hands of about 100,000 people in a few states. Those people are not going to change their minds no matter what the President is found guilty of doing.

Our system has been gamed and its flaws found and they will be exploited for a long time coming.
Click to expand...

OTOH this has been an illuminating experience based on what people tell me about why they think Trump should not be impeached. The arguments I hear even the people that claim to be libertarians or who went on endlessly about how Obama did illegal things are now entirely exposed as full of shit. They like Trump because they want GOP policies from an old white man who gives them all the feels about their rightful place (atop all the poor/brown people) in the national identity. All other arguments are just bullshit constructed to obfuscate that reality.
 
fskimospy said:
The outcome won’t come down to Trump supporters, there are simply too few of them to determine it. The outcome will come down to everyone else.

That aside though yes, it is deeply depressing that we have found out just how impotent and fragile the constitution turned out to be where we can’t even remove blatant criminals from office.
Click to expand...
Democracy only works when people understand and value it because they understand what life can be like without it.

Thomas Jefferson once said that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.", but I would say that once lost it can only be regained by the tears of regret of those who have allowed it to have slipped away.

Perhaps it is best to see the Republican party for what it has become, the party of tyrants.
 
I only wonder how well Nunes sleeps at night given all the BS he spits out at every hearing. What a waste of space.
 
Moonbeam said:
Democracy only works when people understand and value it because they understand what life can be like without it.

Thomas Jefferson once said that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.", but I would say that once lost it can only be regained by the tears of regret of those who have allowed it to have slipped away.

Perhaps it is best to see the Republican party for what it has become, the party of tyrants.
Click to expand...

I expect the country to limp along until something really bad happens. It’s hard to see a situation where we fix the Constitution until it’s broken beyond all repair. When that happens though it will be because conservatives have broken it to maintain power and they won’t want to give it up without a fight. I expect attempts to restore a functioning democracy will be met with violence from the right.
 
snoopy7548 said:
"I want nothing, I want nothing. I want no quid pro quo!"

Man, if Trump testifies it will be insane.
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It occurs to me that one of the reason Trump did so well in the last election, and still plays well on a lot of news, is that he literally talks in sound bites, and the only words he uses beyond a 4th grade level is 4 letter ones. He appeals to the very basest of our nation.
 
fskimospy said:
I expect the country to limp along until something really bad happens. It’s hard to see a situation where we fix the Constitution until it’s broken beyond all repair. When that happens though it will be because conservatives have broken it to maintain power and they won’t want to give it up without a fight. I expect attempts to restore a functioning democracy will be met with violence from the right.
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Then understand that those who oppose them must be able to do so materially.
 
SMOGZINN said:
It occurs to me that one of the reason Trump did so well in the last election, and still plays well on a lot of news, is that he literally talks in sound bites, and the only words he uses beyond a 4th grade level is 4 letter ones. He appeals to the very basest of our nation.
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Simple talk for simple people.
 
SMOGZINN said:
The idea is silly at best. The winner of any such contest will be whoever can get the military to back them. All the small arms in America is pointless, only thing that matters in an armed revolution is who the military backs.
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The idea that we are having a conversation about this is also silly. That we are in a situation where people might be terrorists to support a corrupt autocrat in America is also silly. That a whole party will throw their entire efforts to support someone worse than Nixon is silly.

It's all silly, yet it's all real. Besides, I'm not talking about participating in a civil war, but surviving what might happen with people who have shown a tendency to participate in or support violence. Please feel free to think it can't happen as is your right, but I know that the world isn't bunnies and puppies first hand. YMMV.
 
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