PSA: Don't clench your buttocks when near cops

[zinfamous]

That is not exactly true. The DA/State/Feds have to prove more likely than not that the property is being used in criminal activity for an item to be forfeited. IE: They have to go to court to keep the items. It has to be more than an assumption.

The overwhelming majority of asset forfeiture cases are legit.

apparently they don't. This is why this article is appalling.

Granted, it focuses on two or three notoriously corrupt municipalities, but items can be seized on the spot, legally, with no recourse to challenge.

The system is cooked to the point where all of the levels of review--State/DA/Court that examine these cases depend on the funds from seized assets to pay their salary. You know that ain't right.

"hilariously," one of the major offending DA's profiled in this article for defending grossly illegitimate seizures (her salary 100% dependent on seizures) requested funds from the seizure fund to pay for her own defense in court, after a class-action was filed against her.

Appalling is correct.

EDIT:

NS1 quoted the relevant bit: the difference is between "criminal forfeiture" and "civil forfeiture." All the police have to do is claim civil forfeiture for....reasons....and they effectively file a claim against the item. Legally, the item can't claim any rights for itself. You are fucked, basically.

 

[datalink7]

This is ridiculous.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Midway through the third enema, he was heard to scream "OK, OK, the drugs are in my pocket!" Officers, knowing what liars drug smugglers are, carried on with the probing.

 

[BoberFett]

Do you think they should have started with sticking things up his ass, rooting around for gold? Or would you say that an x-ray is the least invasive way to find out what you need to know?

Why do the police need to know why someone is clenching their buttcheeks?

Your insanity knows no bounds, sixone.

 

[BoberFett]

This is why:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman

Many municipalities depend on criminal seizure to fund their department and pay their own salaries. You don't even need to charge someone with anything--Assume they obtained that watch on their wrist with drug money, it is now property of the state, on the spot. Nothing you can do about it.

Kids in the car? Sorry--now they are wards of the state. Fuck you and good day.

This type of abuse seems to fall in line with this absolute determination to validate such practices.

By the way, EVERYONE should read that article. It's outright appalling.

While the entire War on Drugs and all of its side effects disgusts me, I find it somewhat amusing that proponents of a strong federal government tell us it's necessary in order to protect us from the abuses of small town crooks like the ones described in that story. Reality is that now we have now we have the same small town rackets, except that they're totally legal due to federal laws.

 

[zinfamous]

While the entire War on Drugs and all of its side effects disgusts me, I find it somewhat amusing that proponents of a strong federal government tell us it's necessary in order to protect us from the abuses of small town crooks like the ones described in that story. Reality is that now we have now we have the same small town rackets, except that they're totally legal due to federal laws.

You're injecting a belief system into people that you don't understand. People that support a strong, effective government don't generally support the War on Drugs or any such abuses.

You are confusing people that support a government functioning and doing good, with people who want "Big Government" all the time, regardless of consequences.

the last group only exist in Libertarian fantasies.

 

[CLite]

You are confusing people that support a government functioning and doing good, with people who want "Big Government" all the time, regardless of consequences.

Right.

Returning to the days of "The Jungle" or having toxic rivers is not something we should strive for. However, clearly the growing influence of government is not proving to be beneficial for citizens. I think at times the government and big money have done a good job of keeping each other in check. Unfortunately, instead of balancing each other the two seem to be Eiffel Towering the public at this point in time.

It's sad to see the fury with which common citizens attack each other's beliefs (working class conservatives/democrats) while the "people in charge" laugh their asses off at the most unprecedented wealth accumulation since the 1920's in conjunction with an unprecedented loss of civil rights.

I think the people screaming "government save us" are just as screwy as "free markets cure cancer". Although my political leanings leave me with a modicum more faith in government than pure free markets.

 

[IEC]

Tyranny is real.

 

[BoberFett]

You're injecting a belief system into people that you don't understand. People that support a strong, effective government don't generally support the War on Drugs or any such abuses.

You are confusing people that support a government functioning and doing good, with people who want "Big Government" all the time, regardless of consequences.

the last group only exist in Libertarian fantasies.

LOL, how did I know the Libertarian smear would happen almost immediately?

Sorry spanky, with big government comes big abuse. It's just a function of human nature.

 

[1sikbITCH]

I sincerely hope and pray that I am proven wrong in this, but speaking pragmatically;

He's not going to be rich. He's going be taken to collections for outstanding medical bills related to these illegal procedures after blowing any savings he may have trying to fight city hall.


-JR

1. He doesn't spend a dime fighting city hall. The lawyers front all the money hoping to win.

2. Gila Regional Medical Center is going to backpedal so fast it'd make drugs fall out your ass. The national media is reporting that they essentially raped a guy at gunpoint and then billed him for being victimized.

No way in hell they want the press of taking him to court over it.

 

[zinfamous]

LOL, how did I know the Libertarian smear would happen almost immediately?

Sorry spanky, with big government comes big abuse. It's just a function of human nature.

So you believe that it is destined to fail and this is the only possible option,therefore you have no desire to help solve the problem?

that is pure cowardice. I'm not sure why you even bother. No one respects cowardice. It is the same as claiming "God did it, end of discussion."

What do you mean libertarian smear? your comment is the trappings of pure libertarian fantasy--boogey men and false beliefs that are nowhere to be found, and only evoked by those who want to justify themselves as patriots.

You also use Ron Swanson as your avatar--a satire of the purist insanities of Libertarianism. He is meant to be a clown, not meant to be an idol.

(I love the character though---but that's the point)

 

[KaOTiK]

So much wrong, and at the end of the video they said the medical center is charging the dude for all the procedures as well and will send it to collections, wtf.

 

[MrDudeMan]

This is why:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman

Many municipalities depend on criminal seizure to fund their department and pay their own salaries. You don't even need to charge someone with anything--Assume they obtained that watch on their wrist with drug money, it is now property of the state, on the spot. Nothing you can do about it.

Kids in the car? Sorry--now they are wards of the state. Fuck you and good day.

This type of abuse seems to fall in line with this absolute determination to validate such practices.

By the way, EVERYONE should read that article. It's outright appalling.

GG America. WTF.

 

[BoberFett]

So you believe that it is destined to fail and this is the only possible option,therefore you have no desire to help solve the problem?

I have a desire to solve the problem. I simply desire to solve it differently than you would. I would do it by changing our expectations of government, and along with it the size. I'm afraid the only people living in a fantasy world are the ones who believe a massive government can be trusted.

that is pure cowardice. I'm not sure why you even bother. No one respects cowardice. It is the same as claiming "God did it, end of discussion."

And I find those who rely on a nanny state to be the cowards.

What do you mean libertarian smear? your comment is the trappings of pure libertarian fantasy--boogey men and false beliefs that are nowhere to be found, and only evoked by those who want to justify themselves as patriots.

What smear? You just smeared libertarian ideas again. If you disagree fine, but again the only fantasy is by those who believe big government cares about you.

You also use Ron Swanson as your avatar--a satire of the purist insanities of Libertarianism. He is meant to be a clown, not meant to be an idol.

(I love the character though---but that's the point)

Funny, I see Ron Swanson as the [pessimistic] balancing force to the other extreme. Leslie Knope believes there's nothing government can't do, and do better than anyone else, but only if she runs it. That's the fantasy of the statist. "Government would be perfect, if only they would let me be dictator."

 

[Mark R]

This raises the question of who does these cavity searches under more normal circumstances... If doctors do this routinely there must be some legal framework that:

A. Compels the medical profession to do this under court order,

B. Some form of legal protection for the medical people should the court order not be sufficient/valid,

Would be interested to know.

When I trained as a physician, we had the hospital's lawyer tell us:
1. You NEVER do any medical procedure unless it is in the best interests of the patient. If the police, or a lawyer, or the janitor want a medical procedure performed on another person, and it is not medically necessary, then YOU DO NOT GO AHEAD. If the police need something done, it's their job to find a police physician who can do it.

2. If a patient who needs medical treatment, for a genuine medical purpose, and is capable of giving consent (i.e. not mentally ill, "temporarily insane" or incapacitated) but is actively refusing to give that consent, then you call the hospital lawyer. The lawyer will contact a judge, who if they agree that the treatment is required, will issue an order permitting the treatment to go ahead. You do not go ahead until the hospital lawyer has advised that the order is valid.

 

[Jeff7]

holy fuck, +3



I hate the government so much sometimes. (NSA please don't kidnap and anal probe me)

"Your ass has been deemed a threat to national security."

"....thank you?"

But but but...if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about!
...

"We're here for your protection. The stinging sensation you may feel is just the thrill of freedom, nudging its way in."

This is why:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman

Many municipalities depend on criminal seizure to fund their department and pay their own salaries. You don't even need to charge someone with anything--Assume they obtained that watch on their wrist with drug money, it is now property of the state, on the spot. Nothing you can do about it.

Kids in the car? Sorry--now they are wards of the state. Fuck you and good day.

This type of abuse seems to fall in line with this absolute determination to validate such practices.

By the way, EVERYONE should read that article. It's outright appalling.

At a public hearing on July 11th, D.C.’s attorney general, Irvin Nathan, acknowledged “very real problems” relating to due-process rights. But he warned that millions of dollars raised by forfeiture “could very easily be lost” and “an unreasonable burden” placed on his office if the reforms supported by the Public Defender Service were enacted. He proposed more modest changes that would leave the current burden of proof untouched.

"But we've grown dependent on regular ransom payments! You can't take that away from us! Without that money, we might have to pare back the police force that's out there patrolling the streets, finding probable revenue sources."

“We all know the way things are right now—budgets are tight,” Steve Westbrook, the executive director of the Sheriffs’ Association of Texas, says. “It’s definitely a valuable asset to law enforcement, for purchasing equipment and getting things you normally wouldn’t be able to get to fight crime.” Many officers contend that their departments would collapse if the practice were too heavily regulated, and that a valuable public-safety measure would be lost.

Yup.

What is the reasoning behind legally keeping someone's possessions when they have not been found guilty of anything? (Other than simple corruption and greed.)

 

[sourn]

Wow, this went way way to far. First doctor says it's not gonna happen, go to the next hospital don't find anything on the scan, but still go even as far as surgery.

Ya, this gonna is be gonna be rich if he hires the right lawyer.

 

[Triumph]

This is why:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/08/12/130812fa_fact_stillman

Many municipalities depend on criminal seizure to fund their department and pay their own salaries. You don't even need to charge someone with anything--Assume they obtained that watch on their wrist with drug money, it is now property of the state, on the spot. Nothing you can do about it.

Kids in the car? Sorry--now they are wards of the state. Fuck you and good day.

This type of abuse seems to fall in line with this absolute determination to validate such practices.

By the way, EVERYONE should read that article. It's outright appalling.

I had to stop reading that halfway through, just to save my blood pressure. What an absolute abomination.

 

[SheHateMe]

Look on the bright side, he can carry the fat settlement he's about to get in his rectum.

 

[sixone]

Why do the police need to know why someone is clenching their buttcheeks?

Your insanity knows no bounds, sixone.

Does your stupidity?

I've already asked what happened between his getting pulled over and his getting out of the car. If all he did was roll thru a stop sign, he should have gotten a ticket and that's all. Something else happened in between, that MIGHT shed some light on why they went for a warrant.

But you didn't read that part, didja?

 

[Ichinisan]

I'm very impressed he was able to defecate on command with a crowd of doctors and police officers watching him. Now if he was able to do that three times in a row!?!?! Well, that's just superhuman.

Enema helps with that.

 

[xanis]

Sweet Jesus...

I hope this guy absolutely owns every single person involved in this nightmare in court. I'd happily see my tax dollars go towards getting this guy some justice.

 

[KoolAidKid]

He lives in Deming, NM. That right there is reason enough to question his choices in life/his life skills.

:thumbsup:

Deming is a shithole.

 

[sixone]

:thumbsup:

Deming is a shithole.

Does it have a lot of drug traffic, being so close to the border?

 

[KoolAidKid]

Does it have a lot of drug traffic, being so close to the border?

I have heard more about human rather than drug trafficking there, but it's such a craptastic (the jokes don't stop) place I would probably take up meth just to cope if I lived there. I expect many of the residents do.