PSA: Do you know what to do when the Star Spangled Banner is played?

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Aluvus

Originally posted by: daniel1113
First of all, it's a meaningless song. The vast majority of the people that sing it do so because it's the thing to do, not because it has any real meaning to it. You consider that an honor?

The Star Spangled Banner celebrates a signficant American military victory in the War of 1812, without which the United States might no longer exist. It is about enduring in a struggle against a vastly more powerful opponent, in defense of one's ideals. This is a distinctly idealized perspective on the War of 1812, but such is the nature of national anthems.

Most people that sing it, or hear it, treat it as just another song. That is certainly true. But if a fraction are reminded of what is good in America, then there is value in that.

Isn't that exactly what I said? I know why the song was written, but most people do not. The fact that they sing it on cue when they have zero understanding of the song just goes to prove how pathetic the whole thing is anyway.

Originally posted by: Aluvus

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Second, people that choose not to take part in singing or any other pointless rituals are not spitting on the graves of others, as you put it. They are being individuals in a sea of excessive nationalism.

They are exercising their freedoms, as they have every right to do. I very much dislike the trope that all sorts of acts are disrespectful toward veterans, both because it is often used inappropriately and because it suggests that everyone that has ever worked to protect American freedoms was carrying a gun.

But the rituals are not pointless. They are a reminder of the dream of what America is supposed to be. There is no king to declare America shall exist, no shared race or religion or thousand-year history to bind its people together. It survives only because its people believe it should. There is perhaps some symbolism in the fact that such rituals are voluntary.

Um, great. If that's what you get out of the song, more power to you. But that's still not a reason for anyone else to take part in singing like the OP seems to expect.

Originally posted by: Aluvus

personal liberty (which is, by the way, the only real principle upon which our country is founded)

Oh, surely you jest.

The founders were big on personal liberty, no doubt there. But they also saw the importance of the rule of law, equality before the law, and the principle that the court system and the government in general should be accessible to all. These were not universally held ideas at the time, even in Western Europe, and they still aren't. There were a lot of other important Big Ideas (separation of powers, checks and balances, equality of opportunity), but those are the most critical.

[/quote]

And why do you think the Founders were so big on all those ideas?

To promote personal liberty.

 

[Kanalua]

I generally exercise my freedom of expression during the National Anthem...more supportive of the Anthem, than standing there with my hand over my heart (sexist)...

 

[moshquerade]

Originally posted by: Kanalua
I generally exercise my freedom of expression during the National Anthem...more supportive of the Anthem, than standing there with my hand over my heart (sexist)...

sometimes it's not even worth questioning...

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Kanalua
I generally exercise my freedom of expression during the National Anthem...more supportive of the Anthem, than standing there with my hand over my heart (sexist)...

sometimes it's not even worth questioning...

Oh, go ahead and ask. Come on, how much can it hurt?

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: halik
Remove hat, stand in attention. I never did understand the hand of heart thing.

It is the civilian version of the military salute, the same as the boy scouts 2 finger salute.

Boy scout salute is 3 fingers, tenderfoot.

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: halik
Remove hat, stand in attention. I never did understand the hand of heart thing.

It is the civilian version of the military salute, the same as the boy scouts 2 finger salute.

Boy scout salute is 3 fingers, tenderfoot.

Correct, the Cub Scout salute is two fingers. A concession to necessity as one finger is often found buried in said Cub Scout's nose.

 

[hiromizu]

http://sc.tri-bit.com/images/f/f7/Whofuckincares.jpg

 

[fstime]

I really don't care, and i'll continue to not care.

Too much pride leads to self destruction in the end, to me, its not that big of a deal; relax.

 

[mxyzptlk]

yea, well before I just didn't give a fuck but now I'm going to continue not giving a fuck AND maybe I'll go a little bit out of my way to be more disrespectful towards the OP, his flag and country in general.


funny how righteous indignation works out that way..

 

[Oceandevi]

The hand goes over the left lung to be precise.

 

[looker001]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: StinkyPinky

Originally posted by: TwiceOver
The last Vikings game I was at some Douche Bag started screaming shit about his team (I can't remember who they were playing, but the Vikings won) during the Anthem. Security came up and everyone pointed him out. Never saw him the rest of the game.

Oh the sweet irony of this. An anthem that celebrates freedom of expression...

I don't think the anthem mentions anything even remotely related to freedom of expression.

That said, it's possible for security to remove people for being especially disorderly. They weren't police - during a game, the team reserves the right to remove people if they think it's necessary.

If you remove me, you better refund me the ticket price.

 

[JMapleton]

I have great respect for my country, but I don't worship a flag, sorry. It's the ideals behind America we should salute, the ideals of freedom.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Oh, okay. Should I get on my knees and face toward D.C. too?

yes. 5 times per day.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: johnjohn320

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: looker001
With all due respect, that law is unconstitutional and can't be enforced. Like it or not, everyone is entitled to free speech and freedom of expression.

With all due respect, please leave this thread.


You have a right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression but if you do not respect the history of this country you do not deserve to have those freedoms.

Thank you, come again.

Uh...what? Do you not understand what those freedoms are? Your post makes no sense at all. You contradict yourself within one sentence.

You have the rights but you do not deserve to have them. How exactly is that contradictory?

It's a complete contradiction.

:laugh:

Indeed. how exactly is having those rights related to deserving those rights. As William Munny put it:

"Deserve's got nuthin to do with it."

 

[Sable]

lol @ yanks

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: TallBill
It's a complete contradiction.

It's just like those who insist on burning the flag. It may really piss me off, but I'll defend your right to do so.

If people don't want to sing the national anthem with a hand (or hat) over their heart (or saluting if in uniform) while standing out of respect, it may really piss someone (like me) off --but it's still your right not to do so.

Don't like it? Tough shit. 🙁

I agree. I also think the "Star-Spangled Banner" is completely inferior to "America the Beautiful," and should have been replaced ages ago as the National Anthem.

I think it's a fine anthem and all, will always stand and remove a hat if I happen to be wearing one, but the chances I will put a hand over my heart are 50/50. Depends on my mood.

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: blurredvision
While I love my country and am proud for what it represents, I think people put too much into the flag and national anthems. Sure, it's a representation of our country, but our actions depict who we truly are, not if we stare at some object with our hats off and hands on our chest. I know most of you will disagree, but whatever. It's my opinion. And for the record, I do take my hat off and do not talk during the national anthem. But that sole fact doesn't define me as an American, not even in the slightest.

Originally posted by: Bateluer
Its almost sickening how people are died to give others the right to spit on their graves.

Someone not giving 100% attention to the flag during a national anthem is not spitting on a veteran's grave. You, and others, have a twisted way of looking at things.

Exactly. Many of those that died may, in some way, feel that this is how they should properly honored, but I'm sure not all of them do. I also feel that others can show their appreciation and respect in other ways, and feel that rather meaningless gestures during routine rehashings of the same procedure pale in comparison to their personal methods of appreciation.

It's like saying that you have to go to church and sleep through yet another boring sermon in order to properly honor Jesus or God or whatever. Hogwash.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I pull my pants down and wave my butt toward the flag. Is that wrong?

 

[manowar821]

-1 for "it's just a god damn song"

 

[IronWing]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I pull my pants down and wave my butt toward the flag. Is that wrong?

Depends. Do you enjoy taking overpriced hotdogs there?

 

[Nik]

Originally posted by: moshquerade

Originally posted by: Kanalua
I generally exercise my freedom of expression during the National Anthem...more supportive of the Anthem, than standing there with my hand over my heart (sexist)...

sometimes it's not even worth questioning...

What, you don't like putting your hand over your heart? Boobs get in the way? I don't understand why you wouldn't like this. Can I put my hand over your heart to see what it is you don't like? :evil:

 

[BudAshes]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I pull my pants down and wave my butt toward the flag. Is that wrong?

Only on Sundays. The lord doesn't approve of butt waving on the holy day.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: looker001
With all due respect, that law is unconstitutional and can't be enforced. Like it or not, everyone is entitled to free speech and freedom of expression.

With all due respect, please leave this thread.


You have a right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression but if you do not respect the history of this country you do not deserve to have those freedoms.

Thank you, come again.

Go f yourself buddy.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Pomp and circumstance is mostly ignorant horsecrap. Rampant nationalism is a danger, not a glorious tradition. Only the stupidest and most vile individuals would become aggressive against those who were not participating in such an event.

Mind you, I generally choose to participate in this particular ritual, though not over the last 8 years as protest. As a former military member I assure you you aren't disrespecting me if you choose not to be a slave to ritual, though I do appreciate an individuals acknowledge of, and participation in, their nation.

:thumbsup:

 

[Nik]

?Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.?