PSA: College bound HS Seniors!

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: aswedc
I know plenty of these people. The kind that major in photography, or fashion, or don't even go to college. Because they want to do what they enjoy, and there's nothing wrong with that right? Wrong.

Life takes money. If you don't go to college and major in something useful, you simply don't have enough money to live.

Now I'm not taking an estate and a SUV. This is paying your rent, food, and bills, and having something left over. You think you can do that on 30k? What a joke.

These people invariably leech of others, whether it be their parents, friends, or significant other, or are lazy bums who never go out to eat because it costs too much money, never go on vacation, never drive anywhere, have furniture and clothes entirely from the Goodwill, and are essentially tied to their cut rate or shared living spaces.

This is reality people. Other than rare exceptions, which are pure luck, this is your life. Either you take money from other people (all too common), or you can't even afford a $10 dinner. Have fun with that.

Umm, you could definitely survive on $30K, its called knowing how to budget. I made less than that on my internship, and I made more than enough money to live comfortably, in a major city no less. Plus, you gotta figure most households are dual-income these days anyway.

Am I saying I don't want to make more than that? Of course I do, but to say you'll be a leach on friends and family if you make $30K, you're wrong.

Plain and simple, people should do what they want to do with their lives. If what they want to do can make them 100K, great, if it will make them less than 40K, hey, if they know how to budget, good for them too.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Umm. If she wants to be a photographer..who the hell areyou to tell her she cant. If you arnt going to be happy doing anything but photography..then do it. My uncle makes tons of money as a photographer and he loves it. He has done shots for large magazines..and even flew into a hurricane once. There are a lot of jobs for people that like to take photos...sure the avg pay may not be as high as a Engineer but...who cares.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: aswedc

I don't understand why you think you can't make $$ in photography. We have 4 random clients that are either independent wedding or studio photogs, and they all take home atleast 70k a year.

You're probably in a position where you're only exposed to successful photographers. How many wedding or freelance photographers can the market support at 70k? Some, but not many. There are millions of people who wasted money on a photography education they'll never earn back. See the difference between that and something like engineering?

I see your point to an extent, but just because you can earn a degree in X doesn't mean you're entitled to a job. It still takes hardwork for anything that you decide to do.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: randumb

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: randumb
You forgot mathematics.

nothing immediatley comes to mind when I think of the job possiblities for anyone majoring in mathematics, but not proceeding to masters or PhD.

Care to share? I'm curious.

Math majors can easily enter almost any of your mentioned fields. Eric Lander got his degrees in math and ended up teaching managerial economics and then becoming the head of the Human Genome Project. Math majors also have lucrative immediate career paths in actuarial science and investment banking. Specialized majors within math like statistics are actually worse in general, at least at the undergraduate level.

He is right. There are a lot of jobs for math majors..but none of them sound fun to me lol. You could get jobs at banks, teaching, insurance companies, and such.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: heelside23
last I checked, "university" was spelled with 1 "n"

Pot meet kettle. That's not a complete sentance asshole.

[The] last [time] I checked, "university" was spelled with [one, not '1'] 'n'. <-- single quotes for characters

god you guys really are dorks

I just have a problem with people who try to troll in a thread that hasn't yet disentegrated into neffing nonsense. I really am enjoying hearing what you have to say and I'm patiently waiting to hear what you thought of my last post.

I agree with you to an extent, the GM dudes is a decent example but for anything you can not predict that you will be just as happy 40 years in the future, that holds true for any job really, regardless about how much you love it at the get go, hell you may hate it at first and then decide its the best thing ever,

I will say that you don?t seem to understand the photography isn?t the sacrifice you thing it is in terms of money for love, there is a SH!T LOAD of money in photography more then you know, I know photographers that make over 100K a year. You seem to think that we will all be starving artists, and we will not, you are thinking of painters

I for 1 want to teach in college, I enjoy teaching and college lvl is the top end of it, if it requires me to get my PHD then I will do that if needed after my MFA, and I?m sure you saw that college professor was ranked like 3rd on that "Best Jobs to have" list

I see where you're coming from, but I hope you also realize what I was pointing out when I observed that with the pressure on for both partners in a household to be out making money in stable jobs that the numbers of people who will want to take those kinds of paths in higher education will almost surely decrease. Less interest in non-introductory courses will give institutions less incentive to bring on permanent faculty. College professor is only a great job to have if you're permanent... there is no stability in adjuncting, as I'm sure you know. I see this whole thing as a sociology problem.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: LordMaul
Meh. Electrical Engineering degrees, for instance, aren't all that. Show me their salaries compared to, say, some medical-geared professions from people who majored in Biology. You should put that up there a couple more times. 😉

edit: I see, no grad school...well, maybe not, in that case. EEs still have a lot of certification and post-BS work to do, though. 🙂

I don't know if you're aware of this, but certifications mean dick-all for 99% of EE jobs.

While we're at it, the problem with Biology majors is that you end up being a tech unless you pursue your education past your BSc. So even though they might have decent wages, their chances for advancement without any further degrees are rather slim.

What certifications for EE?😕

<-- BSEE

I assume he was referring to the MCSE & CCNE, which mean dick-all to anyone with an actual engineering degree

What about PE & FE?

Most EE's work for industry and PE/FE aren't really relevant. Now, if we're talking Civil and Aerospace...then you've got a point.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: aswedc
I know plenty of these people. The kind that major in photography, or fashion, or don't even go to college. Because they want to do what they enjoy, and there's nothing wrong with that right? Wrong.

Life takes money. If you don't go to college and major in something useful, you simply don't have enough money to live.

Now I'm not taking an estate and a SUV. This is paying your rent, food, and bills, and having something left over. You think you can do that on 30k? What a joke.

These people invariably leech of others, whether it be their parents, friends, or significant other, or are lazy bums who never go out to eat because it costs too much money, never go on vacation, never drive anywhere, have furniture and clothes entirely from the Goodwill, and are essentially tied to their cut rate or shared living spaces.

This is reality people. Other than rare exceptions, which are pure luck, this is your life. Either you take money from other people (all too common), or you can't even afford a $10 dinner. Have fun with that.

Umm, you could definitely survive on $30K, its called knowing how to budget. I made less than that on my internship, and I made more than enough money to live comfortably, in a major city no less. Plus, you gotta figure most households are dual-income these days anyway.

Am I saying I don't want to make more than that? Of course I do, but to say you'll be a leach on friends and family if you make $30K, you're wrong.

Plain and simple, people should do what they want to do with their lives. If what they want to do can make them 100K, great, if it will make them less than 40K, hey, if they know how to budget, good for them too.

Deeko, I'd expect that you of all people would agree with those numbers. Do you know any way to have a morgage with under 40k a year in the Philly area without having to weld iron gates to all of your windows and doors?

 

[Deeko]

I come from a family of teachers, my mom, aunt, brother, and eventually my sistier when she graduates. I'm pretty much the only one that isn't in teaching, so I guess I'm used to the idea.

Buying a house in a nicer part of the city for that kind of money? Unlikely. Suburbs? Possible. In fact, my older brother who graduated with a major in math and education in 2004 (thus he's been teaching almost 2 years now) just moved into his rather nice new house in the Reading area (an hour from Philly).

Like I said, sure you can do a lot better with more money, personally I hope to start out at $50K and double that by the time I'm 30, but it is FEASIBLY POSSIBLE to live on a photography/fashion/whatever major. That's alls I'm saying.

 

[aswedc]

Umm, you could definitely survive on $30K, its called knowing how to budget. I made less than that on my internship, and I made more than enough money to live comfortably, in a major city no less. Plus, you gotta figure most households are dual-income these days anyway.

Am I saying I don't want to make more than that? Of course I do, but to say you'll be a leach on friends and family if you make $30K, you're wrong.

I didn't say that. I said you'll either leech off people, or live a drastically cut lifestyle.

My point is that it's not like you can do whatever you enjoy and all you'll have to give up is that BMW and those first class airplane tickets.

If you choose a major with limited marketability you're going to be living with major financial hardships the rest of your life, that prevent you from doing everyday things people enjoy that are as simple as taking a drive with gas prices at $3/gallon.

Now I admit the picture isn't as bleak as I made it to be if you are a young single person with no other responsibilities. But add a kid, a recession, a health problem, or a multitude of other random things, and it definitely becomes as bad if not worse.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: aswedc

Umm, you could definitely survive on $30K, its called knowing how to budget. I made less than that on my internship, and I made more than enough money to live comfortably, in a major city no less. Plus, you gotta figure most households are dual-income these days anyway.

Am I saying I don't want to make more than that? Of course I do, but to say you'll be a leach on friends and family if you make $30K, you're wrong.

I didn't say that. I said you'll either leech off people, or live a drastically cut lifestyle.

My point is that it's not like you can do whatever you enjoy and all you'll have to give up is that BMW and those first class airplane tickets.

If you choose a major with limited marketability you're going to be living with major financial hardships the rest of your life, that prevent you from doing everyday things people enjoy that are as simple as taking a drive with gas prices at $3/gallon.

Now I admit the picture isn't as bleak as I made it to be if you are a young single person with no other responsibilities. But add a kid, a recession, a health problem, or a multitude of other random things, and it definitely becomes as bad if not worse.

b-b-b-b-b-ingo

 

[Deeko]

Ok. Now lets figure that the average person makes what, a little under $40K? Lets say you take a somewhat more marketable major (not everyone is cut out to be an electrical engineer). Lets figure you make $45K, rather than $35K. Now, with that extra $10K/year (probably more like $6K-$7K all things considered), you can certainly live a little more comfortably, in a little bigger house, etc.

There's also a good chance you'll absolutely hate your life from 9-5.

Which would you prefer?

 

[aswedc]

Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

 

[JinLien]

Depends on where you live, but here in Canada West Coast a BS or BA with Bio, Chem, Econ, Phys, Stat, Spanish, and Computer is almost as useless as an underwater basket weaving degree. A master in Bio, Chem, and Edu might get you a job for 50-55K CAD per annum if you are lucky, and good luck at landing a job if you have PHD in Lang, Physics, Chem, Bio, or Edu because you have over educated yourself out of a job.

<-- BS & BA degrees and I'm working in the trades. I'm still better of than many of my friends that are now working in the trades or lowly office job for much less than 50K per year that have PHDs in science.

 

[TitanDiddly]

Thanks for your backing of Engineering. Job market for my line of work is great right now. No, I won't tell you what it is.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I come from a family of teachers, my mom, aunt, brother, and eventually my sistier when she graduates. I'm pretty much the only one that isn't in teaching, so I guess I'm used to the idea.

Buying a house in a nicer part of the city for that kind of money? Unlikely. Suburbs? Possible. In fact, my older brother who graduated with a major in math and education in 2004 (thus he's been teaching almost 2 years now) just moved into his rather nice new house in the Reading area (an hour from Philly).

Like I said, sure you can do a lot better with more money, personally I hope to start out at $50K and double that by the time I'm 30, but it is FEASIBLY POSSIBLE to live on a photography/fashion/whatever major. That's alls I'm saying.

mmm reading...legacy beer?

And yes...its unrealistic to think that all the people going into photography will get a job in the field. but thats true for any major..its hard to get a good job..you have to know what you are doing. IN the case of photography..you need to have some skill...

 

[aswedc]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Ok. Now lets figure that the average person makes what, a little under $40K? Lets say you take a somewhat more marketable major (not everyone is cut out to be an electrical engineer). Lets figure you make $45K, rather than $35K. Now, with that extra $10K/year (probably more like $6K-$7K all things considered), you can certainly live a little more comfortably, in a little bigger house, etc.

There's also a good chance you'll absolutely hate your life from 9-5.

Which would you prefer?

The big thing here is that marketable majors go up fast. The rest, typically, do not.

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

I think it goes without saying.... just look at all of the business and marketing majors that are in that boat.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft30.shtml

 

[acemcmac]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft30.shtml

From your link:

Median annual earnings of salaried photographers were $24,040 in 2002. The middle 50 percent earned between $17,740 and $34,910. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $14,640, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $49,920. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of salaried photographers were $15.12 for newspapers and periodicals and $10.51 for other professional or scientific services.

Wow, that's just as bad as I thought

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

I think it goes without saying.... just look at all of the business and marketing majors that are in that boat.

:roll:

Just like anything else, photography is what you make of it. The days where you can go out to X magazine or whatever to get a job is gone. What you can do is market the skills you possess and find your niche. A small business is as successful as you make it, regardless of what it is. While maybe 1 out of 5 photogs can't support themselves off of photography, but is it fault in their talent, or fault in their drive to make their business a success? A degree in X major is not a free lunch pass for life.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

I think it goes without saying.... just look at all of the business and marketing majors that are in that boat.

:roll:

Just like anything else, photography is what you make of it. The days where you can go out to X magazine or whatever to get a job is gone. What you can do is market the skills you possess and find your niche. A small business is as successful as you make it, regardless of what it is. While maybe 1 out of 5 photogs can't support themselves off of photography, but is it fault in their talent, or fault in their drive to make their business a success? A degree in X major is not a free lunch pass for life.

Please see this link:
http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft30.shtml

Ace pointed it out clearly that only the top 10% make 50k or above a year.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

I think it goes without saying.... just look at all of the business and marketing majors that are in that boat.

:roll:

Just like anything else, photography is what you make of it. The days where you can go out to X magazine or whatever to get a job is gone. What you can do is market the skills you possess and find your niche. A small business is as successful as you make it, regardless of what it is. While maybe 1 out of 5 photogs can't support themselves off of photography, but is it fault in their talent, or fault in their drive to make their business a success? A degree in X major is not a free lunch pass for life.

Please see this link:
http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft30.shtml

Ace pointed it out clearly that only the top 10% make 50k or above a year.

Salaried photographers (IE: the slaves who work in the big studios that just click the shutter because boss said so or just post process)

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

I think it goes without saying.... just look at all of the business and marketing majors that are in that boat.

:roll:

Just like anything else, photography is what you make of it. The days where you can go out to X magazine or whatever to get a job is gone. What you can do is market the skills you possess and find your niche. A small business is as successful as you make it, regardless of what it is. While maybe 1 out of 5 photogs can't support themselves off of photography, but is it fault in their talent, or fault in their drive to make their business a success? A degree in X major is not a free lunch pass for life.

Please see this link:
http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft30.shtml

Ace pointed it out clearly that only the top 10% make 50k or above a year.

Salaried photographers (IE: the slaves who work in the big studios that just click the shutter because boss said so or just post process)

You have selective reading:

Salaried photographers?more of whom work full time?tend to earn more than those who are self-employed. Because most freelance and portrait photographers purchase their own equipment, they incur considerable expense acquiring and maintaining cameras and accessories. Unlike news and commercial photographers, few fine arts photographers are successful enough to support themselves solely through their art.

 

[tfinch2]

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: BigJ

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: acemcmac

Originally posted by: tfinch2

Originally posted by: aswedc
Oh, and please, lets stop it with the rich photographers.

How many kids are in school majoring in photography or some other kind of art right now? Probably millions. For every successful photographer, there are going to be at least five working at McDonalds. There just aren't that many weddings and magazines out there!

And this is with a healthy economy. If we can agree on anything, it should be that the economic future in this country is very uncertain. And guess who is going first at any sign of trouble?

Do you have the statistics to prove this fact?

I think it goes without saying.... just look at all of the business and marketing majors that are in that boat.

:roll:

Just like anything else, photography is what you make of it. The days where you can go out to X magazine or whatever to get a job is gone. What you can do is market the skills you possess and find your niche. A small business is as successful as you make it, regardless of what it is. While maybe 1 out of 5 photogs can't support themselves off of photography, but is it fault in their talent, or fault in their drive to make their business a success? A degree in X major is not a free lunch pass for life.

Please see this link:
http://www.collegegrad.com/careers/proft30.shtml

Ace pointed it out clearly that only the top 10% make 50k or above a year.

Salaried photographers (IE: the slaves who work in the big studios that just click the shutter because boss said so or just post process)

You have selective reading:

Salaried photographers?more of whom work full time?tend to earn more than those who are self-employed. Because most freelance and portrait photographers purchase their own equipment, they incur considerable expense acquiring and maintaining cameras and accessories. Unlike news and commercial photographers, few fine arts photographers are successful enough to support themselves solely through their art.

Oh well, no use going back and forth. I call it like I see it with my personal experiences. I've never met a pro photog who isn't success if they have a strong love for what they do and a drive for success, which goes for any field.