Pros and Cons of the AppleTV

[TheStu]

i don't care how much power the box uses; i prefer the better quality picture and multipurpose machine. all my movies are readily transcodable to my *.portable devices, if not i can jump in and transcode it to what i need. download/upload what i want; record tv (QAM/ATSC), storage. cost of electricity does not mean anything - quality of service does.

you really like to watch a 1080p video stutter? might as well watch 480p without stutter.

You mean, might as well watch a 720p without stutter, which is what you get now. It will playback 720p content all day, every day.

You aren't wrong, you get better quality from the HTPC, and any number of other things, put the right GPU in there, and now you have a couch gaming PC too, that is if you don't already own a PS3 and 360. But to compare a full HTPC to the AppleTV is unfair and you know it. $99, sips power, is absolutely silent and is the size of a hockey puck. Conversely, there is the HTPC which is going to run you... $300+ if you opt to go with Linux w/ XBMC, another $100 if you want to have Windows with MC on there (and I hear incredible things about MC). $50 for mobo, $50 for the CPU, $25 for 2GB RAM, $50 for case, $40 for PSU, $50 for HDD, ~$20 for the remote/IR, and $20 for the optical drive (if you want it), finally $50 or so for the GPU.

I'm just saying, it isn't a fair comparison.

 

[HaukSwe]

Personally, I absolutely love the ATV2 with XBMC on it. Small, quiet, fanless and cheap..!!

Got all my storage hooked to my airport and XBMC just grabs the content from there, works beautifully. Am getting an extra one for the bedroom...

I also quite like the remote.

XBMC makes it great. Netflix, trailers, photo viewing and playing iTunes is quite nice as well.

 

[Aikouka]

I also quite like the remote.

I'm not a huge fan of the Apple remote with XBMC. Although, I may need to switch to telling XBMC that the remote sends keyboard commands so it will emulate the arrow keys, which brings up the menu during playback.

 

[Emulex]

$184 for core2q8300 (2.5ghz), 8gb ddr2, geforce 220,1tb drive, win7 home premium (Cowboom) $79 for antec microfusion newegg. $25 for lenovo wireless keyboard. $50 for silicondust hdhomerun (used) dual tuner for recording.

Could skip the antec microfusion case but it looks nice. so $250 for a full htpc with dual atsc/qam recording. xbmc can do 4K video. 8gb of ram to do other things. having a plasma tv - i dont care about power. I do enjoy recording two high def shows and watching a recorded one. airvideo to transcode anything to my ios devices. airplay. full bitstream out. The $184 unit did not include a $29.99 (BF Newegg) blu-ray player but i use the virtual clone drive to mount iso's since my laptop has a bd-re drive.

No restrictions. I give you power and size of apple tv but a bargain shopper can do it for less than I can. i didn't even try. also i can use tmpgenc to transcode video with GPU acceleration. auto-unrar. saznbd

 

[TheStu]

$184 for core2q8300 (2.5ghz), 8gb ddr2, geforce 220,1tb drive, win7 home premium (Cowboom) $79 for antec microfusion newegg. $25 for lenovo wireless keyboard. $50 for silicondust hdhomerun (used) dual tuner for recording.

Could skip the antec microfusion case but it looks nice. so $250 for a full htpc with dual atsc/qam recording. xbmc can do 4K video. 8gb of ram to do other things. having a plasma tv - i dont care about power. I do enjoy recording two high def shows and watching a recorded one. airvideo to transcode anything to my ios devices. airplay. full bitstream out. The $184 unit did not include a $29.99 (BF Newegg) blu-ray player but i use the virtual clone drive to mount iso's since my laptop has a bd-re drive.

No restrictions. I give you power and size of apple tv but a bargain shopper can do it for less than I can. i didn't even try. also i can use tmpgenc to transcode video with GPU acceleration. auto-unrar. saznbd

Great, you win, congratulations. The HTPC is the end-all, be-all of the living room.

My simple point was just that comparing a $99 little plastic puck to a full on HTPC is not a fair fight. That is like scoffing at the iPhone because you can't play Crysis whilst transcoding 1080p movies and doing god knows how many other things like your desktop can.

You're right, the fact that the AppleTV cannot playback 1080p, full bitstream HD-DT-Whatever is a definite con. The fact that it is within the price range of the average consumer, takes all of 30 seconds to physically set up, and then 5 minutes past that to software setup, and can still do 720p video is a Pro.

My plan is both, but stage one of the plan is an AppleTV.

 

[Emulex]

i agree its a great device for people that don't mind sacrifices or can't tell the difference. all speakers are the same. all big screen tv's look the same. that's most of the population. some folks are enthusiasts. appletv is pretty overpriced for what it does imo. then again most apple products are but i can appreciate (stock $$$) the fact they can sell a $10 item for $99 and throw in some accessories and rent tv shows. makes me more money as they stock skyrockets. love it.

 

[TheStu]

i agree its a great device for people that don't mind sacrifices or can't tell the difference. all speakers are the same. all big screen tv's look the same. that's most of the population. some folks are enthusiasts. appletv is pretty overpriced for what it does imo. then again most apple products are but i can appreciate (stock $$$) the fact they can sell a $10 item for $99 and throw in some accessories and rent tv shows. makes me more money as they stock skyrockets. love it.

Accept it isn't a $10 item, it is easily $11. It has roughly the same guts as say... the iPod Touch. It has 8GB NAND, the A4 chip, and wireless N. If all companies started selling items for only what it cost to make them (disregarding marketing, packaging, shipping, storage, research and development and all other costs of course) then there would be no more companies.

 

[Emulex]

only apple makes that margin my friend. only apple.

 

[Tyranicus]

No restrictions. I give you power and size of apple tv but a bargain shopper can do it for less than I can.

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can't. There is no way to make an HTPC as small as the Apple TV.

only apple makes that margin my friend. only apple.

Firstly, you're exaggerating the profit margin quite a bit. Secondly, does anyone else make a set top box for this cheap that can do what it can? Thirdly, if Apple can charge this much, and people will pay for it, why on earth would they not do it?

 

[Emulex]

seriously dude go to ifixit. they break it down for you. the macbook air is 30-40% margin device (amazing since most companies are not anywhere near that). the idevices (which atv2 is part of) have massive profit margin due to apples huge scale of purchase. the same cpu - the same flash - same core o/s - the profit margin on apple tv is insane like the rest of their products. i wish i could sell apple at those margin but they got people locked out to 3-4% margin for resellers. I APPLAUSE APPLE for this capitalism.

** on size - I made no claims on size. but i also enjoy my 60" plasma - so if you could pancake a htpc behidn that big ass mofo - (yes you can) even with a mount - you could hide the whole damn thing. ** power ** i have a 60" plasma i am not concerned about power really or i'd be doing something green .

I was saying appletv is not for everyone and that you can build something out of junk that will do a great job. imo win7 media center is one of the best tv interfaces (it has evolved even since win7 was released). better than tivo imo. especially given the price is built in the crapbox you bought.

My tv does all the netflix/youtubes so if you take that away there is renting (pssh) tv and airplay. Airplay is cool. renting tv shows that come OTA is not. netflix is ubiquitous in everything (blu-ray/pc/etc) so i don't give any brownie points there.

Now that the ATV2 has been cracked (like the atv1) you can at least load some warez on it but you'll find like the atv1 they severely underpowered the unit for the sake of margin since ATV3 will be out in 9 months or less with all new hotness.

ATV3 with 1080p and maybe xbmc as an app store purchase - sink another $99 and throw the ATV2 in the box with the ATV1 - meanwhile my htpc will rock out for the next 5 years or more as-is. until they rip windows media center out of windows 8

 

[TheStu]

That is like the people that are bitching about the iPad being 'overpriced'. If you look at what competition is out there you will find that the iPad and the AppleTV are priced right in line with the market. You can call it expensive, but you can't call it overpriced.

 

[Emulex]

the magic of apple holding back features (like 1080p on the atv2) is getting old. the lack of camera on the ipad - old. there is only one reason. to sell the same consumer the same product (new version) 1 year later.

But who can 'dis their profits man i am impressed. clearly they know more than i do but the fact that i'm getting tired of their "magic" - i can't be alone on this feeling. i want the best tech now. i'm willing to pay for it now. Maybe they should have given folks ATV2 and ATV2+ for $25 more.

i believe they see this feeling since they are exploring iphone nano - and seeing their numbers fall in market share in every area.

 

[HaukSwe]

Let's not forget Apple is including it's software, arguably the best there is, at no extra cost. Did iFixit include the cost of that when calculating their margin? Now this is mainly in reference to profit margins on iPod touch and Macbook Air mentioned above, which is a bit OT.

Most other hardware manufacturers doesn't do software. 99 USD for the ATV2 with it's jail broken features is a steal.

And HTPC... well, in my experience there's usually a lot of tinkering to have that working nicely, am very happy with how the ATV is working. You'd also need to take all things into consideration: Size is an aspect that holds a lot of value to many.

One of my TV's is mounted on the wall in the bedroom. The ATV sits on top, barely noticeable. Do that with Antec "microfusion" case... Do I really A: Want or B: Need another PC in my home? I wouldn't want the above mentioned HTPC even if the price was the same 99.

Power consumption? Fan noise?

I've got two screens and will have ATV2's on both, external USB hdd's connected to my airport extreme, for the amount paid that's a very nice, efficient and competent setup that requires minimal to no maintenance.

 

[Emulex]

xbmc is the best software out there. why are people jailbreaking them and loading xbmc on them? Because the software rock that comes with it pwns the world?

lol. no. not even close. with sigma working with xbmc team the ATV2 is going to get decimated with cheap shenzen boxes that work perfectly without the apple tax.

seriously can anyone say they RENTED house last monday from itunes? lol.

 

[HaukSwe]

Not that you really read my post, but I think we're making progress anyway since the discussion is now the about the attractively priced, nicely working and well designed ATV2 vs Shenzhen hardware not yet in existence.

"Decimate".. definition of being "to kill or remove a large part of", right? So, can we expect a superior alternative for $50 odd or so coming out of Shenzhen real soon then?

Dare I state that for 80% who wants to run XBMC there is no hardware with more pro's and fever con's than the ATV2 at this time? I think so...

 

[Aikouka]

I've been wondering more about the next version of the Apple TV. If it does end up being equipped with the A5, which should be a decently potent SoC, who's to say that Apple won't try and allow things like games to play on it? The only question then is input methods. It'd be easy enough to allow something like Sony's PS3 controllers to be able to connect (the current ATV2 does have bluetooth capabilities) or possibly allowing an iOS touchscreen device to control the game (for games that require touch input).

It'd be a hell of a lot better than trying to play some of the adventure games using those silly on-screen "joysticks."

EDIT:

The only thought is that if you allow multiple sources to play from... say going from a bus ride home and playing a game on my phone to playing it on the TV using ATV3... you'd need to have a way to simplify sharing progress. Something like Steam's Cloud service.

 

[Emulex]

you realize almost every other "player" similar to atv that exists uses sigma technologies. there are probably more sigma based boxes sold in the world (10 fold) than atv's. the US is not the largest market segment. XBMC running flawlessly on a sigma based product will have a huge impact. They are officially working together now because sigma has realized the impact of the software (free no less). I guess you could say android is open source and sucks and nobody uses it. but it sure the heck is eating into iphone/bbm growth figures.

Who knows maybe apple will sell XBMC and torrent for the atv so we can eztv it nah that would ruin their awesome tv rental model right?

did you rent the new simpsons episode yet? it's pretty good.

 

[Fox5]

Actually, I'm pretty sure you can't. There is no way to make an HTPC as small as the Apple TV.



Firstly, you're exaggerating the profit margin quite a bit. Secondly, does anyone else make a set top box for this cheap that can do what it can? Thirdly, if Apple can charge this much, and people will pay for it, why on earth would they not do it?

There are prebuilt barebone boxes close to the size of the AppleTV. Atom and AMD Zacate are being fit into things that are roughly DVD case sized. Plus, many of these boxes can be mounted onto the back of a TV or monitor, so who cares how small as long as it's small enough to be easily hidden?
In AppleTV's price range though, it's only real competition is the Roku box, which is more streaming focused and less local media. If you're already locked into iTunes, AppleTV is probably a great choice for you. For those who talk about jail breaking an AppleTV, well now then you've taken away the Apple magic and opened up just as many issues as an HTPC could have.

Boxee is a reasonable upsell, but if you're geeky enough to buy a Boxee and put up with its issues, its price isn't far off from a decent HTPC. $100 AMD Zacate + $50 case/psu + $20 memory + $50 hard drive (or how ever cheap you can get it) + some media center control ($20-$50) and for around $250 you have something way better than Boxee Box, with the potential upsell of doing way more. (note, probably need to have an extra copy of windows laying around to make this worthwhile from a cost perspective)

 

[Tyranicus]

In AppleTV's price range though, it's only real competition is the Roku box, which is more streaming focused and less local media. If you're already locked into iTunes, AppleTV is probably a great choice for you. For those who talk about jail breaking an AppleTV, well now then you've taken away the Apple magic and opened up just as many issues as an HTPC could have.

You don't "take away the Apple magic." A jailbroken Apple TV can still do all the same things it did before it was jailbroken. That's what i love about my jailbroken Apple TV. It allows seamless streaming of non-iTunes content with XBMC as well as streaming of my iTunes library and iPhoto pictures. Also, Netflix.

 

[momnextdoor]

...New here....A friend suggested this site to obtain information. I feel very intimidated by all the knowledgeable people though.....We are remodeling our home and everything is down to the studs....perfect time to run wires and cable for our AV system. We are considering Apple TV so it is very interesting reading the comments......

Thank you for your posts!

 

[TheStu]

...New here....A friend suggested this site to obtain information. I feel very intimidated by all the knowledgeable people though.....We are remodeling our home and everything is down to the studs....perfect time to run wires and cable for our AV system. We are considering Apple TV so it is very interesting reading the comments......

Thank you for your posts!

For $99 (if you use iTunes a lot) it is hard to beat for its ease of use.

 

[Ka0t1x]

It shouldn't matter how you run your cables, prepare for a bigger system, always.. but the Apple TV will just pop in place of an HTPC either way. (HDMI+Optical Audio)

 

[Kaido]

...New here....A friend suggested this site to obtain information. I feel very intimidated by all the knowledgeable people though.....We are remodeling our home and everything is down to the studs....perfect time to run wires and cable for our AV system. We are considering Apple TV so it is very interesting reading the comments......

Thank you for your posts!

The big question for setting up a new system is how do you acquire your media?

* If you buy a lot of movies, TV shows, and music in iTunes, then the AppleTV is great.
* If you watch Youtube and Netflix, the AppleTV is great.
* If you want to convert your own movies to iTunes format, the AppleTV is great.
* If you don't mind doing a little hacking, you can stream non-iTunes content via XBMC (although it's still very much beta right now).

The nice thing about the AppleTV is that it can act as satellites to your PC or Mac, which stores all of the movies/music content in iTunes. You can put one $99 box on every TV in the house, then stream your entire library from the computer to any of those AppleTV units. It's a lot cheaper than a dedicated Home Theater Computer, but also has those format limitations (unless you hack it).

 

[momnextdoor]

For $99 (if you use iTunes a lot) it is hard to beat for its ease of use.

Thank you for answering back so quickly! Wow! That was nice! I only did a little research before.....but it's nice to know I have your support to pass along to hubby.....he is sooooooooo not into anything electronic. He wants everything to look and sound good, but has no idea how to get there....or where to look for the information!

 

[momnextdoor]

It shouldn't matter how you run your cables, prepare for a bigger system, always.. but the Apple TV will just pop in place of an HTPC either way. (HDMI+Optical Audio)

The big question for setting up a new system is how do you acquire your media?

* If you buy a lot of movies, TV shows, and music in iTunes, then the AppleTV is great.
* If you watch Youtube and Netflix, the AppleTV is great.
* If you want to convert your own movies to iTunes format, the AppleTV is great.
* If you don't mind doing a little hacking, you can stream non-iTunes content via XBMC (although it's still very much beta right now).

The nice thing about the AppleTV is that it can act as satellites to your PC or Mac, which stores all of the movies/music content in iTunes. You can put one $99 box on every TV in the house, then stream your entire library from the computer to any of those AppleTV units. It's a lot cheaper than a dedicated Home Theater Computer, but also has those format limitations (unless you hack it).

Thank you for the information......Since the walls and ceiling are open, I do have the opportunity to run all my cables neatly in the walls (it was a mess in there before) I already spoke with the hubby and asked if we could run the wires for later use.....right now we are waaaaaaay over budget - as all remodels usually are....so we are going to put in the minimum. If and when we have more funds, we can upgrade the system. Right now we are going with a 5.1 surround system in the family room, ceiling speakers in the game room, kitchen, and dining room....rather than the keypad (more expensive) we are going for the universal remote with volume controls in each room.....We are also running cables to the Master Bedroom and getting a huge flat screen in there...That way parents can enjoy a movie if kids are taking over the family room....lol....Music capabilities will also be available in that room also. I installed speakers in my back patio a couple of years ago, so we only need to run the new system to those wires. Because I entertain a lot, this will be a wonderful system......

I love all the things that you are telling me about Apples capabilities....as far as hacking though.....I am clueless.....