Property Taxes: Are they *needed*?

[NoStateofMind]

If you buy a house or car you should own it outright. Otherwise its just 'renting' by another name. Fail to pay taxes on your house, watch the goobers come and take that house you 'own' and sell it to the highest bidder. You never 'really' own anything of value (house/car), the government owns it and allows you to keep it providing you pay them a fee every year. Property taxes should be removed IMO. What do you think?

 

[nismotigerwvu]

Well, as our system is currently structured these funds go to the school districts in the area. Not a perfect system but at least he money goes to a good place.

 

[spidey07]

All for it.

But that money (constant tax revenue) has to come from somewhere. Of all tax, property taxes are about the only thing I actually get something back for paying - services, etc.

 

[Rainsford]

I think you should be able to keep your house without paying property taxes...providing you can move your house and the land it's on to a neutral part of the ocean and live there. But even if you own your house outright, you still consume services provided by your city and state. Police, fire fighters, schools, etc, are not free.

And I think property taxes are among the best ways to pay for those things, since it taxes the people who live there and use those services. Property tax is generally more "local" than other taxes, which means it's more likely to be used on things that actually benefit you and less likely to be squandered by idiots in Alaska electing corrupt and wasteful Senators (to cite just one example).

 

[Brainonska511]

The good thing about property taxes is that they are used to fund local services (fire department, schools, garbage pickup, local police, etc).

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I think you should be able to keep your house without paying property taxes...providing you can move your house and the land it's on to a neutral part of the ocean and live there. But even if you own your house outright, you still consume services provided by your city and state. Police, fire fighters, schools, etc, are not free.

And I think property taxes are among the best ways to pay for those things, since it taxes the people who live there and use those services. Property tax is generally more "local" than other taxes, which means it's more likely to be used on things that actually benefit you and less likely to be squandered by idiots in Alaska electing corrupt and wasteful Senators (to cite just one example).

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
The good thing about property taxes is that they are used to fund local services (fire department, schools, garbage pickup, local police, etc).

Granted, but those taxes do not have to come from things you *own*. They could just as well be funded by sales tax, income tax, state tax etc. But what I get from you guys, and is most disturbing, is that you agree that no one really owns their house and we are better for it. Your points are understandable and well intentioned, but I know there are other ways to accrue the revenue needed to secure such services such as fire department etc.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Granted, but those taxes do not have to come from things you *own*. They could just as well be funded by sales tax, income tax, state tax etc. But what I get from you guys, and is most disturbing, is that you agree that no one really owns their house and we are better for it. Your points are understandable and well intentioned, but I know there are other ways to accrue the revenue needed to secure such services such as fire department etc.

So you support sales tax, income tax, state income tax?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Granted, but those taxes do not have to come from things you *own*. They could just as well be funded by sales tax, income tax, state tax etc. But what I get from you guys, and is most disturbing, is that you agree that no one really owns their house and we are better for it. Your points are understandable and well intentioned, but I know there are other ways to accrue the revenue needed to secure such services such as fire department etc.

So you support sales tax, income tax, state income tax?

I am strongly against income taxes, but I've beat that dead horse.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I am strongly against income taxes, but I've beat that dead horse.

Ok, so what taxes do you support?

 

[bozack]

Here in MA they are certainly needed, as well as income tax, sales tax, excise tax, tobacco tax...

They should tax everything, and raise tax rates...

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I am strongly against income taxes, but I've beat that dead horse.

I was, but since I was in the 30% here and we got beaten down by the 70% I have decided that we all need more taxes...alot more, and especially those who make between 60-200 thousand a year.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I think you should be able to keep your house without paying property taxes...providing you can move your house and the land it's on to a neutral part of the ocean and live there. But even if you own your house outright, you still consume services provided by your city and state. Police, fire fighters, schools, etc, are not free.

And I think property taxes are among the best ways to pay for those things, since it taxes the people who live there and use those services. Property tax is generally more "local" than other taxes, which means it's more likely to be used on things that actually benefit you and less likely to be squandered by idiots in Alaska electing corrupt and wasteful Senators (to cite just one example).

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
The good thing about property taxes is that they are used to fund local services (fire department, schools, garbage pickup, local police, etc).

Granted, but those taxes do not have to come from things you *own*. They could just as well be funded by sales tax, income tax, state tax etc. But what I get from you guys, and is most disturbing, is that you agree that no one really owns their house and we are better for it. Your points are understandable and well intentioned, but I know there are other ways to accrue the revenue needed to secure such services such as fire department etc.

A local property tax allows for the direct distribution of those taxes to fund local services for you and your property.

If I'm from out of state, why should I have to pay a higher sales/income tax so that you can have all of your local services (fire/police/water/sewer/schools/hospitals/etc)?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
I am strongly against income taxes, but I've beat that dead horse.

Ok, so what taxes do you support?

Sales tax is probably at the bottom of my list. But I'm just trying to be more selective in my political arguments.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

A local property tax allows for the direct distribution of those taxes to fund local services for you and your property.

If I'm from out of state, why should I have to pay a higher sales/income tax so that you can have all of your local services (fire/police/water/sewer/schools/hospitals/etc)?

There is state income tax and sales tax.

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

There is state income tax and sales tax.

We also have state income and sales tax, word is prop taxes are going up next year as well...bring it on baby...tax tax tax away!

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

A local property tax allows for the direct distribution of those taxes to fund local services for you and your property.

If I'm from out of state, why should I have to pay a higher sales/income tax so that you can have all of your local services (fire/police/water/sewer/schools/hospitals/etc)?

There is state income tax and sales tax.

And how would you divide that revenue to fund local services to individual towns? Property taxes are probably one of most fairer taxes out there as they stay locally. That's why you'll see states eliminate income/sales tax but not property taxes.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Granted, but those taxes do not have to come from things you *own*. They could just as well be funded by sales tax, income tax, state tax etc. But what I get from you guys, and is most disturbing, is that you agree that no one really owns their house and we are better for it. Your points are understandable and well intentioned, but I know there are other ways to accrue the revenue needed to secure such services such as fire department etc.

Who's going to plow my road in the winter? I think the only person in my town who collects sales tax is Lenny, at Lenny's Auto Repair. Should we raise the sales tax to 150% at Lenny's so we have enough money to plow our roads?

Or, do you think it's better to have the money go to the state via an income tax, then fought over by our elected representatives, hopefully some distributed to our town, and we end up paying more money overall because of the extra layers of bureaucracy?

 

[bozack]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Who's going to plow my road in the winter? I think the only person in my town who collects sales tax is Lenny, at Lenny's Auto Repair. Should we raise the sales tax to 150% at Lenny's so we have enough money to plow our roads?

Or, do you think it's better to have the money go to the state via an income tax, then fought over by our elected representatives, hopefully some distributed to our town, and we end up paying more money overall because of the extra layers of bureaucracy?

Honestly I agree and wish that my fellow constituents voted down our income tax and then municipalities were allowed to raise their property tax rate, at least then I would have been sure the money I paid in taxes had a better shot of improving things of direct benefit to me...

but the campaign against the measure played on emotion, used some nearly laughable commercials that showed nurses complaining about how they would be out of work..and in radio spots talked of teachers and police being fired.....like any of those jobs would be in any jeapordy...sure some social services would have been cut, but given how this state mis manages its money it might not have been a bad thing...

People here love to pay taxes though, so I say bring them on.

 

[DrPizza]

Also, regarding taxes being more centralized than local. I'm not sure about your state, but every other municipality seems to have some major project going on, such as rebuilding a larger/newer school or something. When those projects are pushed, people are told "don't worry, our city only has to cover 6-8% of the total cost. The state is going to pick up the rest of the cost." And, people either don't realize that they're still paying for it, since the state's money comes from somewhere, else they realize that hey, everyone else is doing it, so they should get their share too. But, there have been a hell of a lot more projects approved than would ever have been approved if it were only up to the local communities to pay for it. "No way, I'm not paying for that project. Huh? Well, sure, if someone else is paying for it, let's build it."

Tell you what though, if my local services were provided by the state, rather than locally, my community would insist on all of those same services that the majority of other people in the state are receiving. Street cleaners go down your street? They never go down my road. I want them now, and you get to help pay for them. Garbage collection? Hell yeah! I hate driving to the landfill every couple of weeks to get rid of my non-burnable garbage (plastic). The 3 foot high, 200 foot long pile of leaves that I raked to the edge of the road over the course of several days before spending another 4 hours & breaking a rake just loading them into a trailer (many loads) and dumping them on our side road - Hey, you guys need to pay a little more in income tax or sales tax, because I want the town to pick those leaves up for me from the edge of the road.

In short, you are going to help subsidize every community that suddenly decides that they want their cake too. Those communities have worked hard to keep their own property taxes down, but now that we're all paying the same sales tax, or income taxes, why the hell shouldn't we get identical services.

Hopefully, this helps you realize that local spending would end up spiraling out of control.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon
Sales tax is probably at the bottom of my list. But I'm just trying to be more selective in my political arguments.

You realize that sales tax implies that the government owns a piece of every transaction made, right?

Your tax preferences are aesthetic. This is only changing the type of club the government beats you with.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Hopefully, this helps you realize that local spending would end up spiraling out of control.

I think that is a valid argument, but perhaps if the local governments had more power, they'd get more attention. How many people in the US only vote every 4 years and only because its a presidential election? How many people know who the president is, but aren't sure who their state's governor is? My guess is, way too many.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: bamacre
I think that is a valid argument, but perhaps if the local governments had more power, they'd get more attention. How many people in the US only vote every 4 years and only because its a presidential election? How many people know who the president is, but aren't sure who their state's governor is? My guess is, way too many.

Actually, the local governments should be dismantled first. It is on the local level that people should learn how to live without government.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: PC Surgeon

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I think you should be able to keep your house without paying property taxes...providing you can move your house and the land it's on to a neutral part of the ocean and live there. But even if you own your house outright, you still consume services provided by your city and state. Police, fire fighters, schools, etc, are not free.

And I think property taxes are among the best ways to pay for those things, since it taxes the people who live there and use those services. Property tax is generally more "local" than other taxes, which means it's more likely to be used on things that actually benefit you and less likely to be squandered by idiots in Alaska electing corrupt and wasteful Senators (to cite just one example).

Originally posted by: Brainonska511
The good thing about property taxes is that they are used to fund local services (fire department, schools, garbage pickup, local police, etc).

Granted, but those taxes do not have to come from things you *own*. They could just as well be funded by sales tax, income tax, state tax etc. But what I get from you guys, and is most disturbing, is that you agree that no one really owns their house and we are better for it. Your points are understandable and well intentioned, but I know there are other ways to accrue the revenue needed to secure such services such as fire department etc.

Of course you own your house, why should that mean the government can't tax you for keeping it in a city that provides services you use? The repossession consequence if you don't pay taxes doesn't mean the government owns your house any more than they own your freedom when you get sent to jail for committing a crime. Owning property is not mutually exclusive for having responsibilities you have to meet.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: bamacre
I think that is a valid argument, but perhaps if the local governments had more power, they'd get more attention. How many people in the US only vote every 4 years and only because its a presidential election? How many people know who the president is, but aren't sure who their state's governor is? My guess is, way too many.

Actually, the local governments should be dismantled first. It is on the local level that people should learn how to live without government.

Then who determines local laws, local services, etc and manages local tax revenue and it's distribution?

 

[KlokWyze]

Man.. I have to agree with the OP, though a lot of you put forth reasonable explanations. Why can't these services just be paid for by sales, gasoline, alcohol, tobacco, etc.

I mean why should it cost something to "own" something, that's just so blatantly contradictory that maybe it had to be justified by being used to pay for local stuff that is necessary. I don't see any reason why these things can't be paid for by sales taxes.