Property issues

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I believe the police are acting appropriately. Think of it from the point of view of the other people - they could be saying the same thing if somehow you prevented them from gaining access - shouldn't the police help them gain access to what they have the right to have access to?

However, good luck in getting to the bottom of this. Personally, I'd be friendly toward the people making this claim. You probably don't want to make enemies out of them, especially if it's later found that their claim is valid. The last thing you'd want is someone running a PWC at 6am just to spite you.

Problem is, it's the OP's land, thus he decides who can use it. Their "right" to use something, can't superceed the OP's property rights. What's to stop them from using a Mac truck and driving across his property to get to the lack, and in the process destroying his yard?


Want to fix the issue, put a lien on the boats on your property. If they owners don't comply, then they don't get their boats back.
If they are being dicks, then you have to play that game as they don't understand anything else.

To the OP: If the local PD doesn't do anything, call the Sherrif, if they don't do anything call the State Police.

 

[JDMnAR1]

If your property isn't posted with 'No Trespassing' signs, might want to think about doing that.

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
I was just wondering if there were any legal experts on ATOT.

About 7 years ago, I built my house. I purchased the property through a builder/developer in a 20 some home development. My property and 4 of my neighbors are along the lake. As this is NJ, the township made the developer subdevide the lake. The lake and the land under the lake is included in the properties of about 8 homes. The township mandated the establishment of a lake association that allows these homes and about 15 others that border the lake to share the use of the lake. All the property in and around the lake is privately owned and the association owns no property. The associations main duty is to collect dues to treat the lake for weed, which costs $7000/year.

Now the problem.
About 50 years ago, the owner of the property including about 3/4 of the lake, built another development about 1/2 a mile away. These homes claim to have rights to use the lake included in their deeds. In addition 3 boats have been parked on an area of my property that borders the lake along the road, and the owners refuse to remove them.

My questions are.

1. Lets assume that these rights were legally given to these homes 50 years ago. Would that allow them to use the lake without being responsible to share in the upkeep, ie join the lake association.

2. Rights of use of the lake do not automatically grant the right of egress accross my property to get to the lake, nor the right to park a boat on my property.

3. If these people claim rights, isn't their responsibility to prove their rights to use my property rather than mine to prove that they do not. And shouldn't the authorities enforce my property rights until such a time as they file suit. I had an officer out but he refused to do anything stating that this is a civil matter, but the other party has not filed any civil suit or even had a lawyer produce any appeal to the association.

I am looking into legal counsel but the cost is much more than the association can bare.

Any serious suggestions appreciated.
All jovial suggestions expected.

Thanks

talk to your Title company. should be free, since you paid many thousands of $ during closing for it. they're the ones who should have told you if there was something amiss b4 you signed the final papers and actually own the house

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I believe the police are acting appropriately. Think of it from the point of view of the other people - they could be saying the same thing if somehow you prevented them from gaining access - shouldn't the police help them gain access to what they have the right to have access to?

However, good luck in getting to the bottom of this. Personally, I'd be friendly toward the people making this claim. You probably don't want to make enemies out of them, especially if it's later found that their claim is valid. The last thing you'd want is someone running a PWC at 6am just to spite you.

Great, so you mean I should be able to come park my boat in your driveway until you prove to me that I can't? The owner 50 years ago told my grandpa that we would have boat parking rights forever. Prove me wrong, and then I'll move my boat. It's there, on your lawn. Good luck getting out your front door, and don't scratch my boat or I'll get angry and sue you.

 

[nweaver]

Fence your yard...with their boats in your yard, and make sure your gates are locked, and you have a "trespassers will be shot" and "Guard Dog" signs...go get a 16 gauge and a rottie.

What state is this? I know some states, the sheriff can't take a leak without getting permission from another agency. Usually you either have Sheriff that can do stuff, or a State Police.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I believe the police are acting appropriately. Think of it from the point of view of the other people - they could be saying the same thing if somehow you prevented them from gaining access - shouldn't the police help them gain access to what they have the right to have access to?

However, good luck in getting to the bottom of this. Personally, I'd be friendly toward the people making this claim. You probably don't want to make enemies out of them, especially if it's later found that their claim is valid. The last thing you'd want is someone running a PWC at 6am just to spite you.

Great, so you mean I should be able to come park my boat in your driveway until you prove to me that I can't? The owner 50 years ago told my grandpa that we would have boat parking rights forever. Prove me wrong, and then I'll move my boat. It's there, on your lawn. Good luck getting out your front door, and don't scratch my boat or I'll get angry and sue you.

As ridiculous as you think that extreme example is, at my old house, that's exactly the case. My neighbors had on their deed the right to use the driveway on my property between the houses. The houses are close together on relatively narrow lots. This was caught by the title company, or someone, when we purchased our home (and it may have even been on the deed to our home), and we had to sign an agreement that we understood this before we could go forward with that purchase. (The agreement basically said we were aware and would not hold the title company or whoever responsible) If this wasn't caught, our neighbors would still have had the right to use the driveway, we just wouldn't have known, and a third party would have been in trouble for not disclosing this to us. Furthermore, if we didn't know and had our neighbor's boat towed from the driveway, we'd potentially be screwed if anything happened to that boat. Plus, we'd have to live next door to people who weren't very happy with us, hence my advice to be polite to the people claiming they have the right to access. Now, in regard to blocking the driveway - that's exactly what it is, a civil matter. I still own that house and rent it out - lately, since the house next door has been sold, that point has been a huge pain in the neck for me as our tenants and the new neighbors have been involved in multiple disputes. The police have been called a few times, but for the most part, remain uninvolved.

 

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Update

I have no easements on my plat or the plat of the property prior to subdivision, that would indicate right of use or egress/ingress. Unfortunately as is usual in the deeds in my area, copies of prior deeds, and easements are not included in the paperwork or the disclosure at closing. I have been able to print recent deeds online but all the old books are not available. Again this would be included in documents 50 years old. I am planning to get down to the county office and research this stuff myself.


I think that if I ever by another property again I will demand copies of all old deeds, and easements. Of course my lazy a$$ title company didn't do there job, but includes in their exclusions any "lake rights".

I am not licensed in NJ and I am not giving you legal advice, but it seems to me that your first call would be to the title insurance company and make it their problem. If they allowed you to buy the property without clear title, then they would be on the hook to you - and they do not like being on the hook.

Once you put them on notice, I bet they will get all the info you need and you will ahve all your answers.

MotionMan

 

[FoBoT]

how long is your title insurance good for?

have the boats towed/impounded if you want to force the issue, but make sure you are right first or you'll end up paying them back in small claims court for the cost of the tow/impound

if you/the association isn't able to hire a lawyer to sort it out, you'll just have to go with the status quo

 

[RKS]

Originally posted by: MotionMan

Originally posted by: mattpegher
Update

I have no easements on my plat or the plat of the property prior to subdivision, that would indicate right of use or egress/ingress. Unfortunately as is usual in the deeds in my area, copies of prior deeds, and easements are not included in the paperwork or the disclosure at closing. I have been able to print recent deeds online but all the old books are not available. Again this would be included in documents 50 years old. I am planning to get down to the county office and research this stuff myself.


I think that if I ever by another property again I will demand copies of all old deeds, and easements. Of course my lazy a$$ title company didn't do there job, but includes in their exclusions any "lake rights".

I am not licensed in NJ and I am not giving you legal advice, but it seems to me that your first call would be to the title insurance company and make it their problem. If they allowed you to buy the property without clear title, then they would be on the hook to you - and they do not like being on the hook.

Once you put them on notice, I bet they will get all the info you need and you will ahve all your answers.

MotionMan

The title is probably good/clear since they already seemed to have noted/excepted any "lake rights". In Ohio title exams for purchases are required to go back 40 years so the title company probably has a copy of the prior deeds, open mortgages, liens, etc. They may also have a copy of the Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, Restrictions, and Easements associated with lake-related home ownership.

 

[nweaver]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: nweaver

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I believe the police are acting appropriately. Think of it from the point of view of the other people - they could be saying the same thing if somehow you prevented them from gaining access - shouldn't the police help them gain access to what they have the right to have access to?

However, good luck in getting to the bottom of this. Personally, I'd be friendly toward the people making this claim. You probably don't want to make enemies out of them, especially if it's later found that their claim is valid. The last thing you'd want is someone running a PWC at 6am just to spite you.

Great, so you mean I should be able to come park my boat in your driveway until you prove to me that I can't? The owner 50 years ago told my grandpa that we would have boat parking rights forever. Prove me wrong, and then I'll move my boat. It's there, on your lawn. Good luck getting out your front door, and don't scratch my boat or I'll get angry and sue you.

As ridiculous as you think that extreme example is, at my old house, that's exactly the case. My neighbors had on their deed the right to use the driveway on my property between the houses. The houses are close together on relatively narrow lots. This was caught by the title company, or someone, when we purchased our home (and it may have even been on the deed to our home), and we had to sign an agreement that we understood this before we could go forward with that purchase. (The agreement basically said we were aware and would not hold the title company or whoever responsible) If this wasn't caught, our neighbors would still have had the right to use the driveway, we just wouldn't have known, and a third party would have been in trouble for not disclosing this to us. Furthermore, if we didn't know and had our neighbor's boat towed from the driveway, we'd potentially be screwed if anything happened to that boat. Plus, we'd have to live next door to people who weren't very happy with us, hence my advice to be polite to the people claiming they have the right to access. Now, in regard to blocking the driveway - that's exactly what it is, a civil matter. I still own that house and rent it out - lately, since the house next door has been sold, that point has been a huge pain in the neck for me as our tenants and the new neighbors have been involved in multiple disputes. The police have been called a few times, but for the most part, remain uninvolved.

Exactly, they had the right in your title. The OP has examined his deed, and has no such easments. Not only are they using his land as a right of way, but as a parking lot. The police should enforce the laws of private property. Until they provide proof (in the form of his deed showing a specific right they have to his private property) they should enforce the law, which is that they have no right to park their boats on his private land.