Proof! That liberal progressives want to destroy the country!!

[ProfJohn]

Here you have it. Liberal progressives want to destroy the country!

The Progressive Change Campaign Committee delivered an ultimatum to Obama.
Make any cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and they will withhold their support in 2012.

So they are essentially blackmailing him into a position that is bad for the country.

I wish someone would tell these fools that without cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security our country will be doomed.
According to the CBO Social Security and Medicare along could cost us $2 trillion per year by the end of the decade. At that point 12% of GDP will be spent on these two programs alone. Throw in debt payments and 20% of our GDP will be spent on just three things.

In the end it will crush our economy. We can't afford to have 20% of our GDP going to wealth transfers that have a negative effect on our economy.

Liberal group threatens to pull Obama support
http://news.yahoo.com/liberal-group-threatens-pull-obama-support-191618329.html
BTW my thread title is deliberately provocative... deal with it.

 

[Jhhnn]

Looks like a straight cut and paste from the Weekly Standard, PJ, or from AEI.

We don't need to cut any of those things, if we're willing to raise taxes on America's wealthiest to pre-Reagan levels. It's not as if they're acting as job creators, at all, but rather as consumers of liquidity, pulling money out of the economy, hoarding it, as fast as they can... They want deflation, both to damage the Obama presidency and to enhance the power of wealth...

 

[Generator]

In the end it will crush our economy. We can't afford to have 20% of our GDP going to wealth transfers that have a negative effect on our economy.

The economy isn't suffering because of "wealth transfers" you idealogical dope. The taxes are at an all time low with clever loop holes and tax lawyers, yet still this economy is fucking shit. The rich aren't job makers, they like everyone else is in bed with government on that tit draining tax payer money like all the Hoveround teabagger degenerates.

But you should definitely be worried. Entitlements aren't going anywhere and if a default to bankrupty does happen there will MASSIVE surge for more socialism. All roads lead to the end of employer insurance model. This horseshit has got to go! Your wet dream of having some 12 year old working 11 hour shifts will never happen in this country again, give it up.

 

[Bowfinger]

Hey PJ, can I impose upon your great experience to help me with something? I want to screech and squawk and throw hissy fits at the mods until they either lock the thread or at least edit the title. What's the best way to do that?

Oh wait, never mind. I'm a capable adult. When I see something I don't like, I don't have to run crying to Daddy to protect my fragile ego. I just deal with it myself. In this case, for example, I'm rolling my eyes and laughing at your latest dishonest attempt to demonize the left. In fairness though you've provided countless opportunities to practice.

Toodles,

 

[HeXen]

Your wet dream of having some 12 year old working 11 hour shifts will never happen in this country again, give it up.

:'(

 

[Icepick]

Looks like a straight cut and paste from the Weekly Standard, PJ, or from AEI.

We don't need to cut any of those things, if we're willing to raise taxes on America's wealthiest to pre-Reagan levels. It's not as if they're acting as job creators, at all, but rather as consumers of liquidity, pulling money out of the economy, hoarding it, as fast as they can... They want deflation, both to damage the Obama presidency and to enhance the power of wealth...

Correct.

 

[matt0611]

Looks like a straight cut and paste from the Weekly Standard, PJ, or from AEI.

We don't need to cut any of those things, if we're willing to raise taxes on America's wealthiest to pre-Reagan levels. It's not as if they're acting as job creators, at all, but rather as consumers of liquidity, pulling money out of the economy, hoarding it, as fast as they can... They want deflation, both to damage the Obama presidency and to enhance the power of wealth...

"Pulling money out of the economy"
"Hoarding it"

What do these statements even mean?
You mean to say that "the rich" are taking dollar bills and hiding them under their mattresses? Really? And that's why our economy is bad?

This is what passes for leftist economic thought these days?
Wow.

I'll let you in on a secret, the rich don't give a shit about inflation. Its the poor who should be worried about it.

 

[MovingTarget]

Wow, ProJo admits that Obama losing in 2012 will destroy the country.

 

[JSt0rm]

Tax cuts dont create jobs you nub.

Taxing creates a situation of increased spending to remove the profits from your books. This includes hiring people.

I know you probably just collect a check and dont get to write off expenses but your boss does.

 

[Fern]

At this point, I mostly agree with The Progressive Change Campaign Committee.

Social Security has a surplus. I'd be open to means testing benefits, but at this time I'm wary of cuts in benefits. People have been in a long a long time, and the ROI is already dismal so I can't justify benefit cuts.

Medicare and Medicaid are, IMO, burdened by our fustercluck of the existing HC system problems. You fix that underlying problem, you probably fix Medicare and Medicaid. Trying to fix medicare and Medicaid without fixing the underlying HC problems is foolish.

I really don't understand why SS is mentioned in this whole issue. It's got a $2.6 trillion surplus. SS has been extremely difficult to approach on it's own, to roll it up with the debt ceiling etc strikes me as stupid and unnecessarily problematic.

Fern

 

[Infohawk]

BTW my thread title is deliberately provocative... deal with it.

The main problem is it's just BS. There's no evidence anyone wants to destroy the country. They just have different ideas of what's good for the country. Stop trolling.

 

[MovingTarget]

The main problem is it's just BS. There's no evidence anyone wants to destroy the country. They just have different ideas of what's good for the country. Stop trolling.

QFT. I'm guilty of saying things like "they are destroying the country" from time to time, but it is hyperbole. But what you just said here, Infohawk, needs to be said.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I am annoyed by this kind of political blackmail, but the thread title is absurd, false and hyperbolic. First, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee doesn't speak for all progressives, and second, as misguided as I think this position is, I sure as hell don't think it means they "want to destroy the country," any more than, say, AARP (which holds the same positions) wants to destroy the country.

 

[Craig234]

"Pulling money out of the economy"
"Hoarding it"

What do these statements even mean?
You mean to say that "the rich" are taking dollar bills and hiding them under their mattresses? Really? And that's why our economy is bad?

This is what passes for leftist economic thought these days?
Wow.

I'll let you in on a secret, the rich don't give a shit about inflation. Its the poor who should be worried about it.

Matt, you're just being pathetic.

"The rich" are keeping their money in banks, not mattresses.

Here's a column by Nobel Laureate in Economics Paul Krugman this month explaining it for you:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/cash-is-not-the-problem/

Unfortunately, I guess you are representative of right-wing citizens?

 

[Craig234]

I really don't understand why SS is mentioned in this whole issue.

Ask Willie Sutton.

...to roll it up with the debt ceiling etc strikes me as stupid and unnecessarily problematic.

You say that like it's an obstacle for Republicans.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Yet more proof that PJ is a hopeless partisan hack that has no idea whats good for the country

 

[matt0611]

Matt, you're just being pathetic.

"The rich" are keeping their money in banks, not mattresses.

Here's a column by Nobel Laureate in Economics Paul Krugman this month explaining it for you:

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/cash-is-not-the-problem/

Unfortunately, I guess you are representative of right-wing citizens?

How is lending money to banks, hoarding cash then?

The banks can potentially increase the money supply by $10 for every one dollar deposited in a checking account. How is this "sucking money out of the economy"?

Giving the banks more money gives them more of a reason to lend it out, so how is depositing my money in the bank "deflationary"?

Wow, more evidence of ignorant leftist (but I repeat myself) economic thought. Thanks.

 

[Craig234]

How is lending money to banks, hoarding cash then?

The banks can potentially increase the money supply by $10 for every one dollar deposited in a checking account. How is this "sucking money out of the economy"?

Giving the banks more money gives them more of a reason to lend it out, so how is depositing my money in the bank "deflationary"?

Wow, more evidence of ignorant leftist (but I repeat myself) economic thought. Thanks.

When you reply, I'd prefer you indicate if you read the column linked.

 

[Darwin333]

But you should definitely be worried. Entitlements aren't going anywhere and if a default to bankrupty does happen there will MASSIVE surge for more socialism.

And no one to pay for it...

 

[nonlnear]

How is lending money to banks, hoarding cash then?

The banks can potentially increase the money supply by $10 for every one dollar deposited in a checking account. How is this "sucking money out of the economy"?

Giving the banks more money gives them more of a reason to lend it out, so how is depositing my money in the bank "deflationary"?

Wow, more evidence of ignorant leftist (but I repeat myself) economic thought. Thanks.

Increasing bank reserves does nothing to increase the money supply. Reserves follow lending, not the other way 'round. The money multiplier is generally taught wrong by most introductory (and many upper level) macroeconomic textbooks.

 

[matt0611]

Increasing bank reserves does nothing to increase the money supply. Reserves follow lending, not the other way 'round. The money multiplier is generally taught wrong by most introductory (and many upper level) macroeconomic textbooks.

All things being equal doesn't an increase in reserves increase a banks willingness to lend?
If nothing else, if people are saving more it drives down interest rates making it easier for people to borrow.

Even if my bank is not lending, if I'm giving them cash to lend out, how is that me "hoarding cash"?
They are the ones holding the cash, not me.

 

[MovingTarget]

And no one to pay for it...

Oh, there's plenty to pay for it just as there are plenty to cover the current proposals. The problem is that they keep lobbying more to contribute less to the government/society that they benefit from. This is shortsighted, because as others mentioned here, it will be far worse for them should this country go under.

 

[dmcowen674]

Proof! That liberal progressives want to destroy the country!!

Here you have it. Liberal progressives want to destroy the country!

The Progressive Change Campaign Committee delivered an ultimatum to Obama.
Make any cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and they will withhold their support in 2012.

So they are essentially blackmailing him into a position that is bad for the country.

I wish someone would tell these fools that without cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security our country will be doomed.

For once you are right. Under Republican rule the country is doomed.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

another troll thread snipped

Since you are too chickenshit to answer in one of your other made-up 100% incorrect troll threads, I'll try here, so everyone can see how you blindly post inaccurate information, and when proved to be wrong, you bail and start another thread about a different troll.

My comment on npj's claim that Obama didn't compromise on the debt ceiling:

Still waiting on nPJ to explain how Obama moving to within 2% of the GOP proposal isn't compromise, while the GOP then backtracked away from their proposal of 85/15 to move further away to 100/0.

You started a thread saying he didn't compromise. This shows he did. Are you somehow incapable of defending your posts? Maybe because you know you lied?

 

[cubby1223]

The Progressive Change Campaign Committee delivered an ultimatum to Obama.
Make any cuts to Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security and they will withhold their support in 2012.

Obama has already won the 2012 Presidential election. This progressive group is just making headlines for the sake of attention whoring. Their support is inconsequential to his campaign.