Proof that hetero and homosexuality are genetic!

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: aidanjm

blah blah blah

:roll: you cant be serious.

I think it is a good thing you would seek to play God and make a gay child straight. Frankly, I would pity the gay child who had to grow up with someone like you. I would especially pity a gay boy having to grow up with someone like you as a father. You would quite simply be incapable of giving him what he would need to thrive. Of course, in an ideal world, gay kids would be given an option to divorce their heterosexual parents and be adopted by a gay couple.

I pitty the heterosexual child that's forced to grow up with two mommies or two daddies. I pitty a heterosexual boy growing up with two homosexual fathers because he'll never be taught what it is to be a real man before it's too late. Hell, his fathers will probably try cramming their homosexual views down his throat early, kinda like some are doing in this thread.

I think it's funny that people base their entire lives around their sexuality.

You're gay? Great. Nobody freakin cares. With few exceptions (some on this very message board), I love how homosexuals prance around and babble constantly about their sexuality like they need someone cheering them on through life for being homosexual. Either that or they've got some big ol' thang broken in their head that makes them feel like they have to tell the world that they are homosexual - like, every single person they meat --er, I mean meet. And it's not good enough that they just tell those people. They have to talk it and walk it so everyone in line-of-site or earshot will know that they're gay. Honestly, who cares?

I don't go around babbling about how I'm heterosexual to everyone I meet. I know there are plenty of exceptions, but I live in Portland Oregon. Come on. The next step up in the gay world is to live downtown San Fran. Portland has a huge gay community and they're always bitching about how they're not accepted. Here's a clue: If you want to be accepted, stop drawing lines between you and everybody else because the only person to blame is YOU. We don't care if you're gay, so quit bringing it up like it's the key to saving the environment or the key to curing cancer.

It's sex. You want to bang some other guy in the ass? Great. Your choice. I choose not to and I don't give a crap what you choose. Life isn't about pushing your homosexuality on everyone else and it's not about pushing my heterosexuality on everyone else.

I feel the same way about homosexuality that I do racism. One of the reasons that it's so huge is that the liberal media loves to drum up little things to make them larger than life. OH NOES GAY RIGHTS! Gay rights? Are there heterosexual rights too? No. The media needs to stop encouraging homosexuals to feel some need to stand out and be different (only to complain that they aren't being treated just like everyone else). Both racism and sexual-preference... uh... ism... need to just be ignored.

And what are you going to do about someone who doesn't like you because you're gay, anyway? Worry about it? Fret over someone who *gasp* doesn't like gays? OH TEH N0ES! Not everyone in the world is going to like you. Deal with it. Don't let it get to you because it's just going to eat you up inside and ruin the rest of your life.

In short, it doesn't matter whether anyone's gay or straight, it's not going to make one bit of difference until one side starts complaining at the other side (WHY do there have to be sides ANYWAY?) for some dumbass reason that gets blown up and fought over, then calms down back to a reasonable level just to start all over again.

This bitching between "factions" sucks and needs to stop. Nobody cares. Now leave me alone cuz I'm not awake. *sips coffee*

 

[Literati]

WATCH ME CARE

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Siva
...Still, its proof enough that sexual attraction genetic...

You can change anything with genetics and we don't know enough about the human genome to say either way for sure -we're nowhere close. We just don't know.

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer
Just a question for you bio type. If it is truely a genetic thing, then won't that geonome become less and less typical in humans as "gay" people tend not to breed? Won't that mean that their will be less and less gay people?

Aside from women related to gay men tending to be more fertile (showing the genetic traits for increased attraction to males exist and can be passed through women to their male children), one might consider that whatever genes influence homosexuality may be subject to a common mutation. So even though homosexuals don't pass the trait on, it may be likely to occur over and over for the remaining history of the human race.

Being gay is like being one of the X-men, but with a super power in looking hot.

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Siva
...Still, its proof enough that sexual attraction genetic...

You can change anything with genetics and we don't know enough about the human genome to say either way for sure -we're nowhere close. We just don't know.

You can't change anything with genetics, you can't change the fact that I like spaghetti, the fact that my favorite TV show is this or that, etc... things SOCIETY (environment) influence. The idea of this article is that there are plenty of people who say sexual attraction is a choice. This shows, at least preliminarily, that sexual preference isn't a preference at but is linked to genes. At least in the fruit fly, which while not nearly as genetically complicated as a human, is definately an indicator of what might exist in humans after many difference branches of evolution.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: EyeMWing

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
This is great news! Now we just need to find that pesky gene that causes homosexuality, so expecting parents can have it removed.
That way, the only children who might be born homosexual, are those whose parents couldn't afford to modify their childrens genetic makeup.
So homosexuality won't necessarily die out, but it will be more prevalent in low income families. Homosexuals will then truely become ostracized. None of that pansy wansy "Gay Bashing" crap. No no that just won't do anymore.
I say we just have taxpayers pay for the "gay gene" removal. After all, it is benefitting society.

My belief is that heterosexual society doesn't deserve people like us in the first place. Maybe it would be for the best.

So many important figures in history were homosexual. Such an impact on the world.
I think it's hard for people to realize what they have until it's gone.
Who will they put down, bash, and blame things on when we are gone? Will the world become one great big ball of harmony and happiness? If it's all genetics, and we were all created by God, what new excuses will we hear from the religious right on how such a thing could happen?

You obviously havn't read the bible, have you? God created a lot of inferior stuff that he tasked humanity to destroy, apparently.

Actually, you are right. I've never read the bible. But from what I know, God is perfect.
And perfection cannot be questioned. Perfection is perfection, and could never be thought otherwise, even by the most unperfect beings. Perfection transcends imperfection. But God is questioned. Perhaps things aren't as they seem?

 

[JasonSix78]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: aidanjm

blah blah blah

:roll: you cant be serious.

I think it is a good thing you would seek to play God and make a gay child straight. Frankly, I would pity the gay child who had to grow up with someone like you. I would especially pity a gay boy having to grow up with someone like you as a father. You would quite simply be incapable of giving him what he would need to thrive. Of course, in an ideal world, gay kids would be given an option to divorce their heterosexual parents and be adopted by a gay couple.

I pitty the heterosexual child that's forced to grow up with two mommies or two daddies. I pitty a heterosexual boy growing up with two homosexual fathers because he'll never be taught what it is to be a real man before it's too late. Hell, his fathers will probably try cramming their homosexual views down his throat early, kinda like some are doing in this thread.

I think it's funny that people base their entire lives around their sexuality.

You're gay? Great. Nobody freakin cares. With few exceptions (some on this very message board), I love how homosexuals prance around and babble constantly about their sexuality like they need someone cheering them on through life for being homosexual. Either that or they've got some big ol' thang broken in their head that makes them feel like they have to tell the world that they are homosexual - like, every single person they meat --er, I mean meet. And it's not good enough that they just tell those people. They have to talk it and walk it so everyone in line-of-site or earshot will know that they're gay. Honestly, who cares?

I don't go around babbling about how I'm heterosexual to everyone I meet. I know there are plenty of exceptions, but I live in Portland Oregon. Come on. The next step up in the gay world is to live downtown San Fran. Portland has a huge gay community and they're always bitching about how they're not accepted. Here's a clue: If you want to be accepted, stop drawing lines between you and everybody else because the only person to blame is YOU. We don't care if you're gay, so quit bringing it up like it's the key to saving the environment or the key to curing cancer.

It's sex. You want to bang some other guy in the ass? Great. Your choice. I choose not to and I don't give a crap what you choose. Life isn't about pushing your homosexuality on everyone else and it's not about pushing my heterosexuality on everyone else.

I feel the same way about homosexuality that I do racism. One of the reasons that it's so huge is that the liberal media loves to drum up little things to make them larger than life. OH NOES GAY RIGHTS! Gay rights? Are there heterosexual rights too? No. The media needs to stop encouraging homosexuals to feel some need to stand out and be different (only to complain that they aren't being treated just like everyone else). Both racism and sexual-preference... uh... ism... need to just be ignored.

And what are you going to do about someone who doesn't like you because you're gay, anyway? Worry about it? Fret over someone who *gasp* doesn't like gays? OH TEH N0ES! Not everyone in the world is going to like you. Deal with it. Don't let it get to you because it's just going to eat you up inside and ruin the rest of your life.

In short, it doesn't matter whether anyone's gay or straight, it's not going to make one bit of difference until one side starts complaining at the other side (WHY do there have to be sides ANYWAY?) for some dumbass reason that gets blown up and fought over, then calms down back to a reasonable level just to start all over again.

This bitching between "factions" sucks and needs to stop. Nobody cares. Now leave me alone cuz I'm not awake. *sips coffee*

My sentiments exactly, A :beer: for you sir.

-Jason

Sig material, too long though.

 

[brigden]

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
This is great news! Now we just need to find that pesky gene that causes homosexuality, so expecting parents can have it removed.
That way, the only children who might be born homosexual, are those whose parents couldn't afford to modify their childrens genetic makeup.
So homosexuality won't necessarily die out, but it will be more prevalent in low income families. Homosexuals will then truely become ostracized. None of that pansy wansy "Gay Bashing" crap. No no that just won't do anymore.
I say we just have taxpayers pay for the "gay gene" removal. After all, it is benefitting society.

My belief is that heterosexual society doesn't deserve people like us in the first place. Maybe it would be for the best.

So many important figures in history were homosexual. Such an impact on the world.
I think it's hard for people to realize what they have until it's gone.
Who will they put down, bash, and blame things on when we are gone? Will the world become one great big ball of harmony and happiness? If it's all genetics, and we were all created by God, what new excuses will we hear from the religious right on how such a thing could happen?

I'm pro-gay rights and very tolerant, but the statement, "So many important figures in history were homosexual" is stupid. Their sexual preference is irrelevant. Are you suggesting that these important figures in history would have been less important and would have left less impact if they weren't gay?

 

[Joemonkey]

Text

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: aidanjm

blah blah blah

:roll: you cant be serious.

I think it is a good thing you would seek to play God and make a gay child straight. Frankly, I would pity the gay child who had to grow up with someone like you. I would especially pity a gay boy having to grow up with someone like you as a father. You would quite simply be incapable of giving him what he would need to thrive. Of course, in an ideal world, gay kids would be given an option to divorce their heterosexual parents and be adopted by a gay couple.

I pitty the heterosexual child that's forced to grow up with two mommies or two daddies. I pitty a heterosexual boy growing up with two homosexual fathers because he'll never be taught what it is to be a real man before it's too late. Hell, his fathers will probably try cramming their homosexual views down his throat early, kinda like some are doing in this thread.

I think it's funny that people base their entire lives around their sexuality.

You're gay? Great. Nobody freakin cares. With few exceptions (some on this very message board), I love how homosexuals prance around and babble constantly about their sexuality like they need someone cheering them on through life for being homosexual. Either that or they've got some big ol' thang broken in their head that makes them feel like they have to tell the world that they are homosexual - like, every single person they meat --er, I mean meet. And it's not good enough that they just tell those people. They have to talk it and walk it so everyone in line-of-site or earshot will know that they're gay. Honestly, who cares?

I don't go around babbling about how I'm heterosexual to everyone I meet. I know there are plenty of exceptions, but I live in Portland Oregon. Come on. The next step up in the gay world is to live downtown San Fran. Portland has a huge gay community and they're always bitching about how they're not accepted. Here's a clue: If you want to be accepted, stop drawing lines between you and everybody else because the only person to blame is YOU. We don't care if you're gay, so quit bringing it up like it's the key to saving the environment or the key to curing cancer.

It's sex. You want to bang some other guy in the ass? Great. Your choice. I choose not to and I don't give a crap what you choose. Life isn't about pushing your homosexuality on everyone else and it's not about pushing my heterosexuality on everyone else.

I feel the same way about homosexuality that I do racism. One of the reasons that it's so huge is that the liberal media loves to drum up little things to make them larger than life. OH NOES GAY RIGHTS! Gay rights? Are there heterosexual rights too? No. The media needs to stop encouraging homosexuals to feel some need to stand out and be different (only to complain that they aren't being treated just like everyone else). Both racism and sexual-preference... uh... ism... need to just be ignored.

And what are you going to do about someone who doesn't like you because you're gay, anyway? Worry about it? Fret over someone who *gasp* doesn't like gays? OH TEH N0ES! Not everyone in the world is going to like you. Deal with it. Don't let it get to you because it's just going to eat you up inside and ruin the rest of your life.

In short, it doesn't matter whether anyone's gay or straight, it's not going to make one bit of difference until one side starts complaining at the other side (WHY do there have to be sides ANYWAY?) for some dumbass reason that gets blown up and fought over, then calms down back to a reasonable level just to start all over again.

This bitching between "factions" sucks and needs to stop. Nobody cares. Now leave me alone cuz I'm not awake. *sips coffee*

I pity the person who expresses negative opinions on things they don't understand.
Also, I hate it when heterosexual males constantly post stuff about girls on this board. I think it needs to stop right here. No one cares about who you find attractive, or who you are dating. Quit pushing your half-naked female pictures down our throats. Stop posting all this crap about your girlfriends.
You are straight! So what? Who cares? Move along.
You see it all over TV all the time. And movies. All this straight BS. Naked women and make-out scenes. Just get over yourselves. 😛


Anyways:

The subject of homosexuality is as popular as it is because it's controversial, as you can clearly see by this thread.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Nik
I pitty the heterosexual child that's forced to grow up with two mommies or two daddies. I pitty a heterosexual boy growing up with two homosexual fathers because he'll never be taught what it is to be a real man before it's too late. Hell, his fathers will probably try cramming their homosexual views down his throat early, kinda like some are doing in this thread.

I think it's funny that people base their entire lives around their sexuality.

You're gay? Great. Nobody freakin cares. With few exceptions (some on this very message board), I love how homosexuals prance around and babble constantly about their sexuality like they need someone cheering them on through life for being homosexual. Either that or they've got some big ol' thang broken in their head that makes them feel like they have to tell the world that they are homosexual - like, every single person they meat --er, I mean meet. And it's not good enough that they just tell those people. They have to talk it and walk it so everyone in line-of-site or earshot will know that they're gay. Honestly, who cares?

I don't go around babbling about how I'm heterosexual to everyone I meet. I know there are plenty of exceptions, but I live in Portland Oregon. Come on. The next step up in the gay world is to live downtown San Fran. Portland has a huge gay community and they're always bitching about how they're not accepted. Here's a clue: If you want to be accepted, stop drawing lines between you and everybody else because the only person to blame is YOU. We don't care if you're gay, so quit bringing it up like it's the key to saving the environment or the key to curing cancer.

It's sex. You want to bang some other guy in the ass? Great. Your choice. I choose not to and I don't give a crap what you choose. Life isn't about pushing your homosexuality on everyone else and it's not about pushing my heterosexuality on everyone else.

I feel the same way about homosexuality that I do racism. One of the reasons that it's so huge is that the liberal media loves to drum up little things to make them larger than life. OH NOES GAY RIGHTS! Gay rights? Are there heterosexual rights too? No. The media needs to stop encouraging homosexuals to feel some need to stand out and be different (only to complain that they aren't being treated just like everyone else). Both racism and sexual-preference... uh... ism... need to just be ignored.

And what are you going to do about someone who doesn't like you because you're gay, anyway? Worry about it? Fret over someone who *gasp* doesn't like gays? OH TEH N0ES! Not everyone in the world is going to like you. Deal with it. Don't let it get to you because it's just going to eat you up inside and ruin the rest of your life.

In short, it doesn't matter whether anyone's gay or straight, it's not going to make one bit of difference until one side starts complaining at the other side (WHY do there have to be sides ANYWAY?) for some dumbass reason that gets blown up and fought over, then calms down back to a reasonable level just to start all over again.

This bitching between "factions" sucks and needs to stop. Nobody cares. Now leave me alone cuz I'm not awake. *sips coffee*

That's an awful lot of words considering that "Nobody cares" 😛
With that said, they're not wearing their sexuality on their sleeves to receive your approval or tolerance. They're doing it for the people that tell them they're disgusting, they're abominations, god hates them, etc. Zealots on one side breed zealots on the other side.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: brigden

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
This is great news! Now we just need to find that pesky gene that causes homosexuality, so expecting parents can have it removed.
That way, the only children who might be born homosexual, are those whose parents couldn't afford to modify their childrens genetic makeup.
So homosexuality won't necessarily die out, but it will be more prevalent in low income families. Homosexuals will then truely become ostracized. None of that pansy wansy "Gay Bashing" crap. No no that just won't do anymore.
I say we just have taxpayers pay for the "gay gene" removal. After all, it is benefitting society.

My belief is that heterosexual society doesn't deserve people like us in the first place. Maybe it would be for the best.

So many important figures in history were homosexual. Such an impact on the world.
I think it's hard for people to realize what they have until it's gone.
Who will they put down, bash, and blame things on when we are gone? Will the world become one great big ball of harmony and happiness? If it's all genetics, and we were all created by God, what new excuses will we hear from the religious right on how such a thing could happen?

I'm pro-gay rights and very tolerant, but the statement, "So many important figures in history were homosexual" is stupid. Their sexual preference is irrelevant. Are you suggesting that these important figures in history would have been less important and would have left less impact if they weren't gay?

Absolutely.
It has nothing to do with them being gay, and everything to do with where being gay led them.
It's funny how something so small can alter your life.
Had I been born straight, I would probably be married right now. I would definately not be where I am now. I would not have accomplished the things I have. I would be in a completely different place because of the choices I would have made.
Would I have been a decent artist?
Would I still have an interest in computers?
My choices in life were absolutely influenced by my sexuality.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Kipper
The #1 problem with this study is that human beings are NOT fruit flies yet we are implictly drawing a cognitive link between them. Since WHEN are fruit flies human beings or anything even closely resembling fruit flies? in any way, shape, or form?

60% of our genetic makeup is identical to that of a fruit fly.
Go sit down. 😛

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Siva

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Siva
...Still, its proof enough that sexual attraction genetic...

You can change anything with genetics and we don't know enough about the human genome to say either way for sure -we're nowhere close. We just don't know.

You can't change anything with genetics, you can't change the fact that I like spaghetti, the fact that my favorite TV show is this or that, etc... things SOCIETY (environment) influence. The idea of this article is that there are plenty of people who say sexual attraction is a choice. This shows, at least preliminarily, that sexual preference isn't a preference at but is linked to genes. At least in the fruit fly, which while not nearly as genetically complicated as a human, is definately an indicator of what might exist in humans after many difference branches of evolution.

With that argument, you could argue that people's life experiences result in homosexuality instead of genetics, as well. Just because some scientist made a female fruit fly lick another female fruit fly doesn't prove or disprove anything other that changing some genes can influence the actions of a fruit fly. It doesn't prove that gays are born gay. It doesn't prove that it's impossible to choose to be gay. It doesn't prove that it's impossible that one's life experiences can lead one toward homosexuality. It just doesn't prove or disprove shiot.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: brigden
I'm pro-gay rights and very tolerant, but the statement, "So many important figures in history were homosexual" is stupid. Their sexual preference is irrelevant. Are you suggesting that these important figures in history would have been less important and would have left less impact if they weren't gay?

Define gay rights?

 

[DainBramaged]

HOW THE FVCK DID THEY GET OUT OF P&N??? *runs for cover*

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

Originally posted by: shilala
See, I don't think everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, whatever, should have the same rights and protections. I think all people should be treated on a case by case basis, as is reasonably possible, the by the government.
I think target programs, affirmative action, and endowments to specific races and social classes are a good thing. I think rich people should pay more taxes, and I think poor people should be given food and shelter. I don't think our women should be forced to serve in the military, I don't think children should be allowed to drink alcohol, I don't think Ladies should be allowed in the Men's restroom, and I don't think gays should be allowed to be married.

My point...
It's not a level or fair playing field. It never was, and it never will be.
In life, we are dealt our hand. I'm fortunate that I was born a white heterosexual male in a white heterosexual male's society. I am grateful that I wasn't born a black homosexual male, because I don't think I could take it.
Gayness does not make anyone so "different" or "special" that they deserve these mythical equal rights that no other class/group/individual on this planet are afforded.

So you basically don't believe in the ideas put forth in the Constitution. You also trust the government to fairly determine who should receive what. You just might be a communist.

Yes I do, no I don't, and wait a minute... *checks McCarthy's list*, not a communist, either. Dammit. I really wanted to be a communist, too.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: DainBramaged
HOW THE FVCK DID THEY GET OUT OF P&N??? *runs for cover*

*grabs your foot and pulls you back in*

 

[jer0608]

Originally posted by: shilala
....
(And to qualify, I think gays deserve equal rights. They don't deserve the unequal rights they are demanding, such as to be married.)

How is this an unequal right? Stripped to its core, when I married my wife, I entered into an equal, exclusive, legal partnership with an unrelated, consenting adult. I did so to secure certain rights and protections for the person I valued above all others. From a legal perspective this is all that I have done. Why should homosexuals not have the same right to such arrangements?

All notions of love, family, united before God, etc. assigned to marriage are an individual's prerogative, and have been throughout history. None of these things should be coded into law, nor are they being asked to be by the homosexual community.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jer0608

Originally posted by: shilala
....
(And to qualify, I think gays deserve equal rights. They don't deserve the unequal rights they are demanding, such as to be married.)

How is this an unequal right? Stripped to its core, when I married my wife, I entered into an equal, exclusive, legal partnership with an unrelated, consenting adult. I did so to secure certain rights and protections for the person I valued above all others. From a legal perspective this is all that I have done. Why should homosexuals not have the same right to such arrangements?

All notions of love, family, united before God, etc. assigned to marriage are an individual's prerogative, and have been throughout history. None of these things should be coded into law, nor are they being asked to be by the homosexual community.

But these 'basic rights" are opposed by many peoples using their hateful religions to justify their bigotry.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: aidanjm
The presence of differences between people doesn't mandate that different rights be accorded to those people.

Yes it does, every day, all over the world.

To clarify, my comments pertain to Western/ first world democracies like the UK, Australia, the USA. Within this context of a first world liberal democracy, the presence of differences does not MANDATE that different legal rights and protections BE ACCORDED to those different people. For example, asian people are not accorded different rights and protections than causasian people, and there is no reason why asians necessarily SHOULD be accorded different rights to caucasions.

Originally posted by: shilala
Men and women are not accorded different legal rights for example.

Yes they are, every day, all over the world.

Within the context of a liberal democracy in the first world, women and men have essentially the same fundamental legal rights and protections.

You could dregde up affirmative action for women as an exception (for certain jurisdictions). But then, affirmative action can be framed as equalizing rights and opportunites for disadvantaged groups, it can reasonably be argued that affirmative action secures equal rights and protections. There are disparities for men and women in the rulings of family courts (women more likely to get custody of kids, etc.) but these disparities aren't coded into law.

Originally posted by: shilala
Go back in and think out those points for a couple minutes. I have to leave right now, but if you haven't come up with examples, I'll toss out a few.

Lol, thanks for the condescension.

Originally posted by: shilala
(And to qualify, I think gays deserve equal rights. They don't deserve the unequal rights they are demanding, such as to be married.)

Denial of marriage (and it's associated rights, protections) to same-sex couples is simply a form of gender discrimination. There is really no reasonable or plausible reason for that gender discrimination to be continued.

At any rate, I didn't actually raise the issue of rights -- you did. I was talking simply of the glaring differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals (for example, a woman is raped every 18 seconds by a heterosexual man in the USA; gay males OTOH simply do not physically or sexually brutalize other people to such a great extent.)

[/quote]

Right out the gate aidanjm, I want to apologize. My intent was not at all to come off as condescending. I literally had to leave to attend a meeting. I'm debating this with you because I immediately respected your intelligence, and I hope you can sway my thinking, or at least cast some points I haven't covered.

We're arguing whether basic rights are being denied gay people unfairly at this point.

I equate marriage being denied to gay couples simply as not meeting the criteria.
If I go into the welfare office, file a claim, and am denied because I make too much money, am I being denied my rights?
If I go to the Social Security Office and file for benefits and am turned away because I'm too young or not disabled, am I being denied my rights?
If I ask my employer to extend health benefits to my girlfriend and her children because we live together, love each other, and raise children together and he denies me because I am not married, are my rights being violated?

What the Gay Marriage Supporters are telling me is that when Sam and Ed walk into the courthouse and ask for a marriage certificate and are denied because they are both men, their rights are being violated.
It's bullshyt. It's not liking that hand that was dealt.

So what do we do when we don't like a law? We try to change it.
Hell is, now I need a decent argument to change the law.
"My rights are being violated" isn't getting it with me.
Gays are good people. Valid argument, equal argument among peers.
Gays are capable of raising children and fostering a nurturing environment. Excellent argument, equal among peers.
Gays deserve the right to all the benefits marriage offers. Excellent argument, equal among peers.

Gays deserve the right to gain a marriage certificate and be married?
They already do. They simply need to meet the criteria.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: jer0608

Originally posted by: shilala
....
(And to qualify, I think gays deserve equal rights. They don't deserve the unequal rights they are demanding, such as to be married.)

How is this an unequal right? Stripped to its core, when I married my wife, I entered into an equal, exclusive, legal partnership with an unrelated, consenting adult. I did so to secure certain rights and protections for the person I valued above all others. From a legal perspective this is all that I have done. Why should homosexuals not have the same right to such arrangements?

All notions of love, family, united before God, etc. assigned to marriage are an individual's prerogative, and have been throughout history. None of these things should be coded into law, nor are they being asked to be by the homosexual community.

All you benefit by getting married is a different tax system. There are zero "rights" that you cannot attain, such as being the legal decision maker in a medical emergency, etc., without getting married. Some of the "rights" that I saw on TV used by the homosexual campaign for marriage were rights that even married couples don't get automatically. Take some time to fill out some legal documents and *bam* you're no different than a married couple with the exception of in the IRS's eyes.

Big freakin deal.

That being said, I don't think homosexuals should be excluded from this right honorable ability of being eligible for being taxed differently by the IRS.

I also believe that the state should get out of the business of marriage. As long as you're marring another human being, who the fvck cares?

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: aidanjm
The presence of differences between people doesn't mandate that different rights be accorded to those people.

Yes it does, every day, all over the world.

To clarify, my comments pertain to Western/ first world democracies like the UK, Australia, the USA. Within this context of a first world liberal democracy, the presence of differences does not MANDATE that different legal rights and protections BE ACCORDED to those different people. For example, asian people are not accorded different rights and protections than causasian people, and there is no reason why asians necessarily SHOULD be accorded different rights to caucasions.

Originally posted by: shilala
Men and women are not accorded different legal rights for example.

Yes they are, every day, all over the world.

Within the context of a liberal democracy in the first world, women and men have essentially the same fundamental legal rights and protections.

You could dregde up affirmative action for women as an exception (for certain jurisdictions). But then, affirmative action can be framed as equalizing rights and opportunites for disadvantaged groups, it can reasonably be argued that affirmative action secures equal rights and protections. There are disparities for men and women in the rulings of family courts (women more likely to get custody of kids, etc.) but these disparities aren't coded into law.

Originally posted by: shilala
Go back in and think out those points for a couple minutes. I have to leave right now, but if you haven't come up with examples, I'll toss out a few.

Lol, thanks for the condescension.

Originally posted by: shilala
(And to qualify, I think gays deserve equal rights. They don't deserve the unequal rights they are demanding, such as to be married.)

Denial of marriage (and it's associated rights, protections) to same-sex couples is simply a form of gender discrimination. There is really no reasonable or plausible reason for that gender discrimination to be continued.

At any rate, I didn't actually raise the issue of rights -- you did. I was talking simply of the glaring differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals (for example, a woman is raped every 18 seconds by a heterosexual man in the USA; gay males OTOH simply do not physically or sexually brutalize other people to such a great extent.)

Right out the gate aidanjm, I want to apologize. My intent was not at all to come off as condescending. I literally had to leave to attend a meeting. I'm debating this with you because I immediately respected your intelligence, and I hope you can sway my thinking, or at least cast some points I haven't covered.

We're arguing whether basic rights are being denied gay people unfairly at this point.

I equate marriage being denied to gay couples simply as not meeting the criteria.
If I go into the welfare office, file a claim, and am denied because I make too much money, am I being denied my rights?
If I go to the Social Security Office and file for benefits and am turned away because I'm too young or not disabled, am I being denied my rights?
If I ask my employer to extend health benefits to my girlfriend and her children because we live together, love each other, and raise children together and he denies me because I am not married, are my rights being violated?

What the Gay Marriage Supporters are telling me is that when Sam and Ed walk into the courthouse and ask for a marriage certificate and are denied because they are both men, their rights are being violated.
It's bullshyt. It's not liking that hand that was dealt.

So what do we do when we don't like a law? We try to change it.
Hell is, now I need a decent argument to change the law.
"My rights are being violated" isn't getting it with me.
Gays are good people. Valid argument, equal argument among peers.
Gays are capable of raising children and fostering a nurturing environment. Excellent argument, equal among peers.
Gays deserve the right to all the benefits marriage offers. Excellent argument, equal among peers.

Gays deserve the right to gain a marriage certificate and be married?
They already do. They simply need to meet the criteria.


[/quote]

It's not the fact that homosexuals don't meet the criteria. That can be changed, and will be in time.
It's the fact that people are trying to bar that change from happening, on religious beliefs.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
It's the fact that people are trying to bar that change from happening, on religious beliefs.

Not everyone, so don't generalize. I'm torn, really. While the liberal democrats pulled some serious bullsh|t to "legalize" gay marriage, which I don't give a flying four letter word for copulation about, they changed the law without the people's opinion (vote). THAT is why I am against the bullsh|t that went on last year. I'm not against gay marriage, but changing the law in such a big way without the concent of the people is wrong. Little things would nickel-and-dime the voting system to death, but something that's obviously so debated in society shouldn't just be one of those "little things" where the stupid state government thinks they can supercede federal law and make the decision for themselves.

Since it's apparently such a huge issue, make it a national vote and get it over with. Those that vote against gay marriage need to loosen their grip and realize that there's loads of other crap going on in the world that they may not agree with but that doesn't mean that allowing gays to get married will force those same controlling (mostly religious) folks to be required to change their opinion or something.

 

[DPmaster]

This is the ultimate gift for the guys at Anandtech!

1. Make all the guys outside of Anandtech homosexual
2. Make all the women heterosexual
3. Said heterosexual women now have no choice but to date the guys from Anandtech
4. PROFIT LIKE LINDSAY LOHAN AT A CRACK WAREHOUSE!!!!!!