Proof that hetero and homosexuality are genetic!

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Kipper

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Kipper
The #1 problem with this study is that human beings are NOT fruit flies yet we are implictly drawing a cognitive link between them. Since WHEN are fruit flies human beings or anything even closely resembling fruit flies? in any way, shape, or form?

the study is just an excuse for yet another nature/ nurture debate.

Well, then where is the evidence for the nature? In a study by fruit flies? That's awfully sketchy evidence to base a claim on, because we know fruit flies are not human beings.

you can look to the twins studies with humans. they can be interpreted as supporting the notion that homosexuality in humans is at least in part mediated by genetics

 

[cain]

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
This is great news! Now we just need to find that pesky gene that causes homosexuality, so expecting parents can have it removed.
That way, the only children who might be born homosexual, are those whose parents couldn't afford to modify their childrens genetic makeup.
So homosexuality won't necessarily die out, but it will be more prevalent in low income families. Homosexuals will then truely become ostracized. None of that pansy wansy "Gay Bashing" crap. No no that just won't do anymore.
I say we just have taxpayers pay for the "gay gene" removal. After all, it is benefitting society.

i aint paying

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Your title: Proof that hetero and homosexuality are genetic!

This post isn't meant to be either pro or anti homosexuality, but I felt compelled to point out that nothing in this article suggests that homosexuality is genetic. What this article proves is that humans can tweak the genetic code of fruitflies so that they behave differently than the non-tweaked versions. This doesn't even mean that there are genetically homosexual fruitflies - it just means that genetic codes are subject to tampering, the results of which are observable altered behaviors. Do genetically homosexual fruitflies even exist? If so, then the OP's title might carry a little more weight. As it stands, the title to this thread is inaccurate.

A good virus will tweak the settings of my pc so that it will operate differently than before; that doesn't mean that my pc is supposed to operate the way it does after it gets infected.

So the homosexual crowd shouldn't go into a big celebration just yet.

Good post, but everyone is ignoring it because they know you are right.

aidanjm, i know you are trying to remain unbias, but you are the same hypocrite you accuse all straight people of being, and it is painfully obvious in most of your posts. wild exaggerations and unsupported claims is all you spew, and dont ask me for examples becuse there are at least a few in this thread alone.

id be curious to see a poll on "would you alter your child to be straight if it was definitely going to be gay?" i would, and im not a homophobe at all. im also not going to explain myself just to piss a few of you off. everyone needs to learn to respect others opinions.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: cain

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
This is great news! Now we just need to find that pesky gene that causes homosexuality, so expecting parents can have it removed.
That way, the only children who might be born homosexual, are those whose parents couldn't afford to modify their childrens genetic makeup.
So homosexuality won't necessarily die out, but it will be more prevalent in low income families. Homosexuals will then truely become ostracized. None of that pansy wansy "Gay Bashing" crap. No no that just won't do anymore.
I say we just have taxpayers pay for the "gay gene" removal. After all, it is benefitting society.

i aint paying

All they have to do is sign a bill into law.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: shilala

See, I don't think everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, whatever, should have the same rights and protections. I think all people should be treated on a case by case basis, as is reasonably possible, the by the government.
I think target programs, affirmative action, and endowments to specific races and social classes are a good thing. I think rich people should pay more taxes, and I think poor people should be given food and shelter. I don't think our women should be forced to serve in the military, I don't think children should be allowed to drink alcohol, I don't think Ladies should be allowed in the Men's restroom, and I don't think gays should be allowed to be married.

My point...
It's not a level or fair playing field. It never was, and it never will be.
In life, we are dealt our hand. I'm fortunate that I was born a white heterosexual male in a white heterosexual male's society. I am grateful that I wasn't born a black homosexual male, because I don't think I could take it.
Gayness does not make anyone so "different" or "special" that they deserve these mythical equal rights that no other class/group/individual on this planet are afforded.

not saying i dont mostly agree, but wow you are gonna get flamed for giving your honest opinion.

 

[datalink7]

None. The prevailing social pressure (both within the gay and straight communities) is for gays to butch it up, be "straight acting". It takes huge balls to be a swishy, effeminate, flaming gay in this day and age.

I would disagree. My sister is Homosexual, so I've met quite a few gay men. Particularly among the "activist" crowd, there is huge pressure to identify yourself with being gay, and you do this by acting "effeminate" and thus setting yourself apart from the "straight" male community.

Just an observation. I'm not gay myself so I could be wrong but I know people in high school who came "out of the closet", but still acted the same, untill they started hanging out with a certain crowd (local gay activist community) and "turned effeminate/stereotypical gay."

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: shilala
Gayness does not make anyone so "different" or "special" that they deserve these mythical equal rights that no other class/group/individual on this planet are afforded.

Gay people deserve equal rights not because they are "special" or "different" but because they are citizens. They should have the same rights and the same responsibilities and obligations as every other citizen.

I find it odd that you have chosen to bring a discussion of rights into what was a discussion on difference. The presence of differences between people doesn't mandate that different rights be accorded to those people. Men and women are not accorded different legal rights for example.

Progressive taxation, welfare for the disadvantaged, etc. are not incompatible with the notion that everyone be treated equally before the law with regard to basic/ fundamental legal rights and protections. Affirmative action is a complicated special case.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Your title: Proof that hetero and homosexuality are genetic!

This post isn't meant to be either pro or anti homosexuality, but I felt compelled to point out that nothing in this article suggests that homosexuality is genetic. What this article proves is that humans can tweak the genetic code of fruitflies so that they behave differently than the non-tweaked versions. This doesn't even mean that there are genetically homosexual fruitflies - it just means that genetic codes are subject to tampering, the results of which are observable altered behaviors. Do genetically homosexual fruitflies even exist? If so, then the OP's title might carry a little more weight. As it stands, the title to this thread is inaccurate.

A good virus will tweak the settings of my pc so that it will operate differently than before; that doesn't mean that my pc is supposed to operate the way it does after it gets infected.

So the homosexual crowd shouldn't go into a big celebration just yet.

Good post, but everyone is ignoring it because they know you are right.

aidanjm, i know you are trying to remain unbias, but you are the same hypocrite you accuse all straight people of being, and it is painfully obvious in most of your posts. wild exaggerations and unsupported claims is all you spew, and dont ask me for examples becuse there are at least a few in this thread alone.

id be curious to see a poll on "would you alter your child to be straight if it was definitely going to be gay?" i would, and im not a homophobe at all. im also not going to explain myself just to piss a few of you off. everyone needs to learn to respect others opinions.

I didn't ignore it, and NuclearNed is absolutely right. But it does ambiguously lend creedence to the assumption (and proof positive that has already been found in the human genome), that sexual preference is genetically influenced. Sexual preference can also be *gasp* a preference.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Your title: Proof that hetero and homosexuality are genetic!

This post isn't meant to be either pro or anti homosexuality, but I felt compelled to point out that nothing in this article suggests that homosexuality is genetic. What this article proves is that humans can tweak the genetic code of fruitflies so that they behave differently than the non-tweaked versions. This doesn't even mean that there are genetically homosexual fruitflies - it just means that genetic codes are subject to tampering, the results of which are observable altered behaviors. Do genetically homosexual fruitflies even exist? If so, then the OP's title might carry a little more weight. As it stands, the title to this thread is inaccurate.

A good virus will tweak the settings of my pc so that it will operate differently than before; that doesn't mean that my pc is supposed to operate the way it does after it gets infected.

So the homosexual crowd shouldn't go into a big celebration just yet.

Good post, but everyone is ignoring it because they know you are right.

aidanjm, i know you are trying to remain unbias, but you are the same hypocrite you accuse all straight people of being, and it is painfully obvious in most of your posts. wild exaggerations and unsupported claims is all you spew, and dont ask me for examples becuse there are at least a few in this thread alone.

id be curious to see a poll on "would you alter your child to be straight if it was definitely going to be gay?" i would, and im not a homophobe at all. im also not going to explain myself just to piss a few of you off. everyone needs to learn to respect others opinions.

I'm not saying you believe in God, or are a christian, but isn't that up to God?
I mean, letting science change your child, instead of using the blueprint God created.
I know many people who consider themselves Christian or religious, who would modify their children's genes before birth, as if God's perfect plan wasn't so perfect after all.
Who are you to change what will happen? We may not be able to create life, but if we can modify it, how far away from creation are we?

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: shilala
See, I don't think everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, whatever, should have the same rights and protections. I think all people should be treated on a case by case basis, as is reasonably possible, the by the government.
I think target programs, affirmative action, and endowments to specific races and social classes are a good thing. I think rich people should pay more taxes, and I think poor people should be given food and shelter. I don't think our women should be forced to serve in the military, I don't think children should be allowed to drink alcohol, I don't think Ladies should be allowed in the Men's restroom, and I don't think gays should be allowed to be married.

My point...
It's not a level or fair playing field. It never was, and it never will be.
In life, we are dealt our hand. I'm fortunate that I was born a white heterosexual male in a white heterosexual male's society. I am grateful that I wasn't born a black homosexual male, because I don't think I could take it.
Gayness does not make anyone so "different" or "special" that they deserve these mythical equal rights that no other class/group/individual on this planet are afforded.

So you basically don't believe in the ideas put forth in the Constitution. You also trust the government to fairly determine who should receive what. You just might be a communist.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
This is great news! Now we just need to find that pesky gene that causes homosexuality, so expecting parents can have it removed.
That way, the only children who might be born homosexual, are those whose parents couldn't afford to modify their childrens genetic makeup.
So homosexuality won't necessarily die out, but it will be more prevalent in low income families. Homosexuals will then truely become ostracized. None of that pansy wansy "Gay Bashing" crap. No no that just won't do anymore.
I say we just have taxpayers pay for the "gay gene" removal. After all, it is benefitting society.

My belief is that heterosexual society doesn't deserve people like us in the first place. Maybe it would be for the best.

So many important figures in history were homosexual. Such an impact on the world.
I think it's hard for people to realize what they have until it's gone.
Who will they put down, bash, and blame things on when we are gone? Will the world become one great big ball of harmony and happiness? If it's all genetics, and we were all created by God, what new excuses will we hear from the religious right on how such a thing could happen?

You obviously havn't read the bible, have you? God created a lot of inferior stuff that he tasked humanity to destroy, apparently.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
aidanjm, i know you are trying to remain unbias, but you are the same hypocrite you accuse all straight people of being, and it is painfully obvious in most of your posts. wild exaggerations and unsupported claims is all you spew, and dont ask me for examples becuse there are at least a few in this thread alone.

Please provide me with an example of my wild exaggerations and unsupported claims.

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th
id be curious to see a poll on "would you alter your child to be straight if it was definitely going to be gay?" i would, and im not a homophobe at all. im also not going to explain myself just to piss a few of you off. everyone needs to learn to respect others opinions.

I think it is a good thing you would do that. I would pity the gay child who had to grow up with someone like you. I would especially pity a gay boy having to grow up with someone like you as a father. You would quite simply be incapable of giving him what he would need to thrive. In an ideal world, gay kids would be given an option to divorce their heterosexual parents and be adopted by a gay couple.

 

[TitanDiddly]

Fruit flies != people.

 

[Zysoclaplem]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: aidanjm
We're not better than straight people. But we are different than straight people. Very different.

You say "different", but I hear "special".

Mebbe you should get your ears checked.

Certainly I don't think gay people should receive any special legal treatment. I think everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, whatever, should have the same rights and protections. I think all people should be treated the same by the government. Of course, what heterosexual people fail to acknowledge is that THEY are the ones singling gay people out for "special treatment" by denying gay people access to the basic legal protections and rights that they themselves take for granted.

See, I don't think everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, whatever, should have the same rights and protections. I think all people should be treated on a case by case basis, as is reasonably possible, the by the government.
I think target programs, affirmative action, and endowments to specific races and social classes are a good thing. I think rich people should pay more taxes, and I think poor people should be given food and shelter. I don't think our women should be forced to serve in the military, I don't think children should be allowed to drink alcohol, I don't think Ladies should be allowed in the Men's restroom, and I don't think gays should be allowed to be married.

My point...
It's not a level or fair playing field. It never was, and it never will be.
In life, we are dealt our hand. I'm fortunate that I was born a white heterosexual male in a white heterosexual male's society. I am grateful that I wasn't born a black homosexual male, because I don't think I could take it.
Gayness does not make anyone so "different" or "special" that they deserve these mythical equal rights that no other class/group/individual on this planet are afforded.

If we are going to progress as a society, changes need to be made. That is all there is to it. Otherwise, there is no point to having a society.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: shilala

I didn't ignore it, and NuclearNed is absolutely right. But it does ambiguously lend creedence to the assumption (and proof positive that has already been found in the human genome), that sexual preference is genetically influenced. Sexual preference can also be *gasp* a preference.

agreed

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

I'm not saying you believe in God, or are a christian, but isn't that up to God?
I mean, letting science change your child, instead of using the blueprint God created.
I know many people who consider themselves Christian or religious, who would modify their children's genes before birth, as if God's perfect plan wasn't so perfect after all.
Who are you to change what will happen? We may not be able to create life, but if we can modify it, how far away from creation are we?

i was just throwing another opinion into the mix. i actually would not change the sex of my child, but i would at least want to know ahead of time. i dont know why, but i would.

also, i do believe in God and i dont see how this is an impossibility based on the bible. i dont want to get into that, though. good, mature response. :thumbsup: dont get many of those.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Your title: Proof that hetero and homosexuality are genetic!

This post isn't meant to be either pro or anti homosexuality, but I felt compelled to point out that nothing in this article suggests that homosexuality is genetic. What this article proves is that humans can tweak the genetic code of fruitflies so that they behave differently than the non-tweaked versions. This doesn't even mean that there are genetically homosexual fruitflies - it just means that genetic codes are subject to tampering, the results of which are observable altered behaviors. Do genetically homosexual fruitflies even exist? If so, then the OP's title might carry a little more weight. As it stands, the title to this thread is inaccurate.

A good virus will tweak the settings of my pc so that it will operate differently than before; that doesn't mean that my pc is supposed to operate the way it does after it gets infected.

So the homosexual crowd shouldn't go into a big celebration just yet.

Good post, but everyone is ignoring it because they know you are right.

aidanjm, i know you are trying to remain unbias, but you are the same hypocrite you accuse all straight people of being, and it is painfully obvious in most of your posts. wild exaggerations and unsupported claims is all you spew, and dont ask me for examples becuse there are at least a few in this thread alone.

id be curious to see a poll on "would you alter your child to be straight if it was definitely going to be gay?" i would, and im not a homophobe at all. im also not going to explain myself just to piss a few of you off. everyone needs to learn to respect others opinions.

No, he's not right. It doesn't prove homosexuality is genetic. What it does prove is that homosexuality can be genetic. It's science, they're working to understand it, not definitively say "This is how it is!"
And I'm pretty sure that poll has been done in the past.

 

[exilera]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
This is great news! Now we just need to find that pesky gene that causes homosexuality, so expecting parents can have it removed.
That way, the only children who might be born homosexual, are those whose parents couldn't afford to modify their childrens genetic makeup.
So homosexuality won't necessarily die out, but it will be more prevalent in low income families. Homosexuals will then truely become ostracized. None of that pansy wansy "Gay Bashing" crap. No no that just won't do anymore.
I say we just have taxpayers pay for the "gay gene" removal. After all, it is benefitting society.

My belief is that heterosexual society doesn't deserve people like us in the first place. Maybe it would be for the best.

So many important figures in history were homosexual. Such an impact on the world.
I think it's hard for people to realize what they have until it's gone.
Who will they put down, bash, and blame things on when we are gone? Will the world become one great big ball of harmony and happiness? If it's all genetics, and we were all created by God, what new excuses will we hear from the religious right on how such a thing could happen?

i rather get rid of the gene that causes people to believe in religion.
:roll:

THAT would benefit the entire planet.

:thumbsup:

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

blah blah blah

:roll: you cant be serious.

 

[shilala]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: shilala
Gayness does not make anyone so "different" or "special" that they deserve these mythical equal rights that no other class/group/individual on this planet are afforded.

______________________________________________________________________
I find it odd that you have chosen to bring a discussion of rights into what was a discussion on difference.

You started it.

______________________________________________________________________
The presence of differences between people doesn't mandate that different rights be accorded to those people.

Yes it does, every day, all over the world.
______________________________________________________________________
Men and women are not accorded different legal rights for example.

Yes they are, every day, all over the world.

Go back in and think out those points for a couple minutes. I have to leave right now, but if you haven't come up with examples, I'll toss out a few.
(And to qualify, I think gays deserve equal rights. They don't deserve the unequal rights they are demanding, such as to be married.)

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog

No, he's not right. It doesn't prove homosexuality is genetic. What it does prove is that homosexuality can be genetic. It's science, they're working to understand it, not definitively say "This is how it is!"
And I'm pretty sure that poll has been done in the past.

well, he is at least half right. good point though.

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
My point was not to say that homosexuals are any better than anyone else. We are not.

We're not better than straight people. But we are different than straight people. Very different.

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
The point I was trying to make was if we start modifying the genetic makeup of the future to keep our children from being gay, what will we lose out on?
May'be nothing. May'be everything.

I'd predict a gradual increase in aggressiveness, war, bad clothes, poor interior design, and a decline in beautiful things, fashion, taste, co-operation, good music.

We already have plenty of women. :roll: Your just further pushing a stereotype some gays might take offense to.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: shilala

Originally posted by: aidanjm
The presence of differences between people doesn't mandate that different rights be accorded to those people.

Yes it does, every day, all over the world.

To clarify, my comments pertain to Western/ first world democracies like the UK, Australia, the USA. Within this context of a first world liberal democracy, the presence of differences does not MANDATE that different legal rights and protections BE ACCORDED to those different people. For example, asian people are not accorded different rights and protections than causasian people, and there is no reason why asians necessarily SHOULD be accorded different rights to caucasions.

Originally posted by: shilala
Men and women are not accorded different legal rights for example.

Yes they are, every day, all over the world.[/quote]

Within the context of a liberal democracy in the first world, women and men have essentially the same fundamental legal rights and protections.

You could dregde up affirmative action for women as an exception (for certain jurisdictions). But then, affirmative action can be framed as equalizing rights and opportunites for disadvantaged groups, it can reasonably be argued that affirmative action secures equal rights and protections. There are disparities for men and women in the rulings of family courts (women more likely to get custody of kids, etc.) but these disparities aren't coded into law.

Originally posted by: shilala
Go back in and think out those points for a couple minutes. I have to leave right now, but if you haven't come up with examples, I'll toss out a few.

Lol, thanks for the condescension.

Originally posted by: shilala
(And to qualify, I think gays deserve equal rights. They don't deserve the unequal rights they are demanding, such as to be married.)

Denial of marriage (and it's associated rights, protections) to same-sex couples is simply a form of gender discrimination. There is really no reasonable or plausible reason for that gender discrimination to be continued.

At any rate, I didn't actually raise the issue of rights -- you did. I was talking simply of the glaring differences between heterosexuals and homosexuals (for example, a woman is raped every 18 seconds by a heterosexual man in the USA; gay males OTOH simply do not physically or sexually brutalize other people to such a great extent.)

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: cobalt

Originally posted by: aidanjm

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
My point was not to say that homosexuals are any better than anyone else. We are not.

We're not better than straight people. But we are different than straight people. Very different.

Originally posted by: Zysoclaplem
The point I was trying to make was if we start modifying the genetic makeup of the future to keep our children from being gay, what will we lose out on?
May'be nothing. May'be everything.

I'd predict a gradual increase in aggressiveness, war, bad clothes, poor interior design, and a decline in beautiful things, fashion, taste, co-operation, good music.

We already have plenty of women. :roll:

What on earth do you mean by this comment?

Originally posted by: cobalt
Your just further pushing a stereotype some gays might take offense to.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Often, stereotypes will be more or less an accurate (if approximate & crude) representation of what happens in reality.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Bigsm00th

Originally posted by: aidanjm

blah blah blah

:roll: you cant be serious.

I think it is a good thing you would seek to play God and make a gay child straight. Frankly, I would pity the gay child who had to grow up with someone like you. I would especially pity a gay boy having to grow up with someone like you as a father. You would quite simply be incapable of giving him what he would need to thrive. Of course, in an ideal world, gay kids would be given an option to divorce their heterosexual parents and be adopted by a gay couple.

 

[Siva]

Originally posted by: NuclearNed
Your title: Proof that hetero and homosexuality are genetic!

This post isn't meant to be either pro or anti homosexuality, but I felt compelled to point out that nothing in this article suggests that homosexuality is genetic. What this article proves is that humans can tweak the genetic code of fruitflies so that they behave differently than the non-tweaked versions. This doesn't even mean that there are genetically homosexual fruitflies - it just means that genetic codes are subject to tampering, the results of which are observable altered behaviors. Do genetically homosexual fruitflies even exist? If so, then the OP's title might carry a little more weight. As it stands, the title to this thread is inaccurate.

A good virus will tweak the settings of my pc so that it will operate differently than before; that doesn't mean that my pc is supposed to operate the way it does after it gets infected.

So the homosexual crowd shouldn't go into a big celebration just yet.

That's a good point. Still, its proof enough that sexual attraction is genetic. Perhaps that isn't homo/heterosexuality in the strictest sense, assuming there is no such thing as a homosexual fruit fly. However, even if the naturally occuring homosexual fruit fly does not exist, homosexuality in fruit flies is still genetic, just not naturally occuring. Therefore I stand by my title, however misleading it may be. Unfortunately it seems to have drawn the stupidest argument I have ever seen.

Yes homosexuals differ from heterosexuals. Yes stereotypes exist, perhaps due to genetic predisposition, perhaps due to societal influence, probably due to a combination of both. I don't think there is any disputing that, so what is the point of this debate? The whole idea behind a stereotype is that it generalizes, but does not fit any one person exactly. I think maybe stereotypes of homosexuals may be true for a broad view of the gay population, but that doesn't mean it applies to everyone. I have met plenty of stylish gay men, that doesn't mean all gay men are stylish.

So, in conclusion, the usefulness of homosexuality and the differences between gay and straight is somewhat like the usefullness of having two different genders. Both genders have the ability to contribute different things to society in general, but looking at any individual can yield an extremely different personality than what is viewed as the norm.

If women could procreate without the need for males, would it make sense to eliminate the male population? No. So why would one eliminate the gay population?

Plus, the article is about homosexuality in fruit flies. It may not even apply directly to humans. I'm sure there is genetic influence, but it may not be straightforward. If genetic engineer gets good enough to remove a gene in a person before birth, there still may be no real way to pin down all the genes that influence developing homosexuality.