Proof christianity is "evolving" to accept evolution as FACT!

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Luthien

Golden Member
Feb 1, 2004
1,721
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0
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

Very clever BigJ but of course I am not speaking in absolutes because of course there are some christians that might consider themselves catholics. You can boil things down to absolutes but in the end you lose parts reducing the whole to something unintentionally less than what was originally greater than the sum of its parts. Synergism...

Very nice I like your post.

 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Catholicism is a subset of Christianity - just like Lutheran, Seventh Day, Baptist, etc. You should educate yourself.

Catholicism (and other Christian sects) have accepted evolution as fact for a looooooong time.

 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Evolution and creationism are not at odds, as dennifloss alluded to.

Evolution is simply a mechanism and means for creation IMO.

The bible says absolutely nothing about how "creation" was actually accomplished... i.e. by what physical and biological phenomena did creation occur. That man evolved from lesser organisms is no less miraculous to me than if he 'poofed' out of thin air or rose up out of the dust.

Christians run into all kinds of problems when they try to literally interpret Genesis. Genesis is metaphor and poetry just like Revelations, many of Psalms, the Song of Solomon, etc.

For instance, to think God literally cast out two people named Adam and Eve out of the 'garden of Eden' for eating a piece of fruit is completely naive. Moreover, it a position which is ignorant of the position and teaching of the early church which is well documented.

The sooner we Christians as a whole gets this through our collective thick heads, the better.

And who are you to say that the account of creation, Adam and Eve, and the garden of Eden weren't literal? Why is there a problem with it?

Who are you to say it IS literal?

Because the Bible tells us that God created the heavens and the earth, the he created Adam, that he created Eve, and that he placed them in the garden of Eden. He does not provide one hint, at all, that it was a parable or allegory. The Bible also traces the lineage of Christ back to Adam, claiming him the first living man; something that cannot be denied unless you wish to place God a liar.

And if evolution results in one man and woman evolving in a particular location (the "Garden"), what about that?
 

RapidSnail

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2006
4,257
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0
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: TheTony
You might want to clarify your OP/title.

Fact is, the Catholic church allows for the theory of evolution and has for years.

Huh, the focus of that sight is on Christianity not Catholocism althought it is nice to hear that about the catholics.

The eastern orthodox church (greek, russian, etc.) has always, as a whole, long maintained a stance of scientific 'openness'. Evolution being one such case... AFAIK, the orthodox church has, for the most part, always excepted evolution (or, at least, the possibility of evolution when the theory was in it's infant stages).

Evolution, the big bang, etc. ... these things are not adverse to christian faith and really outside the 'core scope' of 'mankind's journey to know God'. Therefore, it is best for Christians not to make silly dogmatic statements outside their "area of expertise" [which is supposed to be the "science of man's soul"].
 

40sTheme

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2006
1,607
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0
Originally posted by: dennilfloss
That's not a physical image, that means God gave man a moral compass.

Exactly; it wasn't necessarily in his PHYSICAL image, but his spiritual/moral being.
 

MiniDoom

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2004
5,305
0
76
I believe Adam and Eve is just a story depicting the time when man, gained a self-awareness, a sense of right and wrong. The point of evolution when we became the people we resemble today. That is the main difference that separates us from animals.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

Very clever BigJ but of course I am not speaking in absolutes because of course there are some christians that might consider themselves catholics. You can boil things down to absolutes but in the end you lose parts reducing the whole to something unintentionally less than what was originally greater than the sum of its parts. Synergism...

Very nice I like your post.

Honestly, do some reading on Christianity and Catholicism. The reason that some branches of Christianity do not accept Catholics as Christians is they believe that it goes against certain fundamentals of the religion, such as promoting idolatry.

And your "absolutes" opinion is quite silly. It's simply classification.
 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

I'm plenty aware of what the argument is, thank you.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Evolution and creationism are not at odds, as dennifloss alluded to.

Evolution is simply a mechanism and means for creation IMO.

The bible says absolutely nothing about how "creation" was actually accomplished... i.e. by what physical and biological phenomena did creation occur. That man evolved from lesser organisms is no less miraculous to me than if he 'poofed' out of thin air or rose up out of the dust.

Christians run into all kinds of problems when they try to literally interpret Genesis. Genesis is metaphor and poetry just like Revelations, many of Psalms, the Song of Solomon, etc.

For instance, to think God literally cast out two people named Adam and Eve out of the 'garden of Eden' for eating a piece of fruit is completely naive. Moreover, it a position which is ignorant of the position and teaching of the early church which is well documented.

The sooner we Christians as a whole gets this through our collective thick heads, the better.

And who are you to say that the account of creation, Adam and Eve, and the garden of Eden weren't literal? Why is there a problem with it?

If you read ANY of the early church 'fathers' or saints on this topic (we are talking 200-400 AD which is before the bible, including the new testament, was deemed "the bible" at the council of carthage in 406 AD), they are very clear on this point.
 

Luthien

Golden Member
Feb 1, 2004
1,721
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0
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

 

40sTheme

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2006
1,607
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0
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

Even non-fundamentalist Christians (such as myself) don't want our beliefs to be associated with CAtholics.
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
0
I believe there is a lot of scientific evidence that supports evolution and I am Christian. What is the big deal?
 

RapidSnail

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2006
4,257
0
0
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

Actually, I didn't say that I believe all Catholics to be unsaved. There are great similarities between Christianity and Catholicism, but Catholicism brings in extra-canonical teachings which are believed to be sacrilege. However, it is very probable that a large majority of Catholics are saved, it is just that their views of Biblical teachings are distorted by Catholicism.
 

DougK62

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2001
8,035
6
81
Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

Even non-fundamentalist Christians (such as myself) don't want our beliefs to be associated with CAtholics.

Well you know what? That doesn't matter. You can't just change the definition of the word "Christian" because you hate Catholics and want to pout about it.

 

RapidSnail

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2006
4,257
0
0
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Evolution and creationism are not at odds, as dennifloss alluded to.

Evolution is simply a mechanism and means for creation IMO.

The bible says absolutely nothing about how "creation" was actually accomplished... i.e. by what physical and biological phenomena did creation occur. That man evolved from lesser organisms is no less miraculous to me than if he 'poofed' out of thin air or rose up out of the dust.

Christians run into all kinds of problems when they try to literally interpret Genesis. Genesis is metaphor and poetry just like Revelations, many of Psalms, the Song of Solomon, etc.

For instance, to think God literally cast out two people named Adam and Eve out of the 'garden of Eden' for eating a piece of fruit is completely naive. Moreover, it a position which is ignorant of the position and teaching of the early church which is well documented.

The sooner we Christians as a whole gets this through our collective thick heads, the better.

And who are you to say that the account of creation, Adam and Eve, and the garden of Eden weren't literal? Why is there a problem with it?

If you read ANY of the early church 'fathers' or saints on this topic (we are talking 200-400 AD which is before the bible, including the new testament, was deemed "the bible" at the council of carthage in 406 AD), they are very clear on this point.

mini, my ultimate authority is the Word of God; not men or science. What I meant to ask you was what internal evidence you have to believe that those events were not literal. If you can show me clearly that the Bible itself reveals that the accounts of Genesis were allegorical, I will believe you. But until then, I have no reason to believe that they are. The words of God are above the teachings of man.
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
1
0
Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

Even non-fundamentalist Christians (such as myself) don't want our beliefs to be associated with CAtholics.

It seems to me that all the opposition to the inclusion of Catholicism as a part of Christianity comes from the same source.

This sums it up pretty well, in my opinion.
 

miniMUNCH

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2000
4,159
0
0
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

The 7 extra books used to be in all protestant bibles too until they removed them to reduce printing costs.
 

Luthien

Golden Member
Feb 1, 2004
1,721
0
0
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

The 7 extra books used to be in all protestant bibles too until they removed them to reduce printing costs.

To reduce printing costs, yeah right.

 
Aug 23, 2000
15,509
1
81
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Evolution and creationism are not at odds, as dennifloss alluded to.

Evolution is simply a mechanism and means for creation IMO.

The bible says absolutely nothing about how "creation" was actually accomplished... i.e. by what physical and biological phenomena did creation occur. That man evolved from lesser organisms is no less miraculous to me than if he 'poofed' out of thin air or rose up out of the dust.

Christians run into all kinds of problems when they try to literally interpret Genesis. Genesis is metaphor and poetry just like Revelations, many of Psalms, the Song of Solomon, etc.

For instance, to think God literally cast out two people named Adam and Eve out of the 'garden of Eden' for eating a piece of fruit is completely naive. Moreover, it a position which is ignorant of the position and teaching of the early church which is well documented.

The sooner we Christians as a whole gets this through our collective thick heads, the better.

And who are you to say that the account of creation, Adam and Eve, and the garden of Eden weren't literal? Why is there a problem with it?

Who are you to say it IS literal?

Because the Bible tells us that God created the heavens and the earth, the he created Adam, that he created Eve, and that he placed them in the garden of Eden. He does not provide one hint, at all, that it was a parable or allegory. The Bible also traces the lineage of Christ back to Adam, claiming him the first living man; something that cannot be denied unless you wish to place God a liar.

And The Lord of the Rings books said that Elves and Dwarfs and Humans all got along. The bible is a book, books tell stories, stories are written by people. People change things to suit their needs. Also the bible wasn't originally written in English so the bible you read and believe so much in has inaccuracies and errors in it due to translation.
 

Luthien

Golden Member
Feb 1, 2004
1,721
0
0
Why does the Catholic Bible have more books than the Protestant Bible?
The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book. Why?

The book known as the Bible was originally a various collections of Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Chaldean (Daniel, Esther, and others were in Chaldean and not part of the Torah or Haftorah [The Law and the Prophets]) documents read by the early Christians in their worship. Some churches had some writings and others had other writings, but the Bible was not a whole book until the Council of Carthage in 397 A.D.

After the Emperor Constantine forbade the persecution of Christians, they were able to emerge from the catacombs and freely associate. There followed a great deal of discussion of what was considered scripture. There were some books that they promoted as scripture that are not in the Bible today, such as the Gospel of Thomas or the Epistle of Barnabas.

To resolve this dilemma, the Church assembled the leading scholars and experts of that time in Carthage to decide what was really scripture. The document they produced was called The Canon of Scripture, and here is the text of this document:

"[It has been decided] that nothing except Canonical Scriptures should be read in the church under the name of Divine Scriptures. But the Canonical Scriptures are: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Josue [Joshua], Judges, Ruth, four books of Kings [1 and 2 Samuel, 1 and 2 Kings], Paralipomenon two books [1 and 2 Chronicles], Job, the Psalter of David [Psalms], five books of Solomon [Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon, Wisdom, Ecclestiasticus or Sirach], twelve books of the [minor] prophets [Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi], Isaias, Jeremias [includes Lamentations of Jeremiah and the words copied by his scribe Baruch], Daniel, Ezechiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, two books of Esdras [Ezra, Nehemiah], two books of the Machabees. Moreover, of the New Testament: Four books of the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles one book, thirteen epistles of Paul the apostle [Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon], one of the same to the Hebrews, two of Peter, three of John, one of James, one of Jude, the Apocalypse of John. Thus [it has been decided] that the Church beyond the sea [Rome] may be consulted regarding the confirmation of that canon; also that it be permitted to read the sufferings of the martyrs, when their anniversary days are celebrated."
These writings were delivered to St. Jerome, the leading scholar in the Old Testament and ancient languages. St. Jerome together with the brothers of of his monastery painstakingly translated the writings into Latin, which was the universal language of the day. This first Bible was called the Biblia Vulgata of the Vulgate or Common Bible.

During the rise of Protestantism, for various unsubstantiated reasons the following parts were removed from the Bible.

The Book of Tobit
The Book of Judith
The Wisdom of Solomon
The Book of Sirach [Ecclesiasticus]
The Writings of Baruch
The First and Second Books of the Macabees
Two Chapters of Daniel and the Song of the Hebrew Children in the fiery furnace (Daniel 3:25-90)
Consequently, the Catholic Bible has 72 books and the Protestant Bible has 66. One interesting note is that the original King James version of the Bible had all the books and writings found in the Catholic Bible.
 

DaShen

Lifer
Dec 1, 2000
10,710
1
0
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Evolution and creationism are not at odds, as dennifloss alluded to.

Evolution is simply a mechanism and means for creation IMO.

The bible says absolutely nothing about how "creation" was actually accomplished... i.e. by what physical and biological phenomena did creation occur. That man evolved from lesser organisms is no less miraculous to me than if he 'poofed' out of thin air or rose up out of the dust.

Christians run into all kinds of problems when they try to literally interpret Genesis. Genesis is metaphor and poetry just like Revelations, many of Psalms, the Song of Solomon, etc.

For instance, to think God literally cast out two people named Adam and Eve out of the 'garden of Eden' for eating a piece of fruit is completely naive. Moreover, it a position which is ignorant of the position and teaching of the early church which is well documented.

The sooner we Christians as a whole gets this through our collective thick heads, the better.

And who are you to say that the account of creation, Adam and Eve, and the garden of Eden weren't literal? Why is there a problem with it?

If you read ANY of the early church 'fathers' or saints on this topic (we are talking 200-400 AD which is before the bible, including the new testament, was deemed "the bible" at the council of carthage in 406 AD), they are very clear on this point.

mini, my ultimate authority is the Word of God; not men or science. What I meant to ask you was what internal evidence you have to believe that those events were not literal. If you can show me clearly that the Bible itself reveals that the accounts of Genesis were allegorical, I will believe you. But until then, I have no reason to believe that they are. The words of God are above the teachings of man.

Yes, they are, but on whose authority do you base your 'literal' translation of the Bible? In no way does the Creation story say how God created the heaven and the earth.

Also, if you follow the physics of the Big Bang, you can literally take the first 4 verses and coincide them to that. Also, except for some minor issues, if you follow the PreCambrian explosion to the Quaternary times, you find that creation follows in stages as well (to a loose degree).

Even St. Augustine, a modern founder of Christian philosophy and thinking warned Christians to not literally translate the Genesis story, but to focus mainly on the meaning of the story (fall of Man and redemption). By the way, St. Augustine came way before the teory of evolution even came about. The whole creationism fiasco is a consequence of modern times and of ignorant men. Does evolution somehow invalidate anything in the Bible, NO, but because of the polar nature of the argument today, it appears to do that to ignorant people.

I can still believe that G-d is powerful enough to be able to use a natural phenomena to order the world into how G-d sees fit. The Bible can still be "God breathed" and inerrent in its original form. I still fail to see why this is an issue.
 

40sTheme

Golden Member
Sep 24, 2006
1,607
0
0
Originally posted by: TheTony
Originally posted by: 40sTheme
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

Even non-fundamentalist Christians (such as myself) don't want our beliefs to be associated with CAtholics.

It seems to me that all the opposition to the inclusion of Catholicism as a part of Christianity comes from the same source.

This sums it up pretty well, in my opinion.

Ok, I guess I'm just weird, haha.
 

TheTony

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2005
1,418
1
0
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: miniMUNCH
Originally posted by: Luthien
Originally posted by: RapidSnail
Originally posted by: BigJ
Originally posted by: Luthien
Christians do not consider themselves catholics. How do I know this; I have lived with christians my entire life and they think catholics are going to hell. Catholics however it is true do consider themselves christians, lol.

Are all rectangles squares? No. Are all squares rectangles? Now substitute Christians with w/ rectangles and squares with Catholics. Yes. Catholicism is a subsection of Christianity, albeit a very large one.

And the Protestants will pretty much do anything to dump on Catholicism.

The argument is that although Catholics are similar to Christians in many ways, they teach doctrines which are in direct contradiction to the Bible. Therefore, there association with Christianity only serves to mare the name. "Christians kill too, just look at the Crusades and the Inquisition!" "Christians accept evolution, the pope endorsed it!"

Agreed RapidSnail this is why you can put a round peg in a square hole but not a square peg in a round one. In other words the reality is fundamentalist christians do not consider catholics saved. They consider catholics to be idol worshiping and hense iconoclastic episodes throughout the catholic churches history as groups argued over it. Catholics worship Mother Merry... The Catholic Bible has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible has 66 book...

Call it what you want but I live around fundamentalists and they definately don't want to be associated with catholics.

The 7 extra books used to be in all protestant bibles too until they removed them to reduce printing costs.

To reduce printing costs, yeah right.

Actually, I believe the actual reason is because King James removed books from the Bible to make his own version (some say out of spite).

That version being the one that many Protestants use today.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
Originally posted by: Sraaz
So, they know they're losing the battle so they pretend to agree with science?

"They" is a blanket term. There really aren't as many Christians as you think that don't embrace evolution in one form or another.