Profit-rich Toyota threatens Big Three

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Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
Originally posted by: BoberFett
Originally posted by: isekiiI'm speaking from my experience with american cars
Perhaps, but your generalization makes you look as stupid as the guy you were insulting after he generalized about Japanese cars with nothing to back it up.

If you can provide me with some data which shows that of the cars produced in the past 20 years in America, they have spent half their lives in the shop, then I'll admit that I'm the fool. Until then, it's all you.

LoL he based his info on what ? Nothing ...

I had experiences with american cars... and they were all negatives. When a car needs that much repair just to keep it running then there is something wrong.
Am I the only one that think so ? A lot of other people agree, the american made cars reliability is subpar. Yes there are American cars out there that are lasting a real long time. I'm not denying that.
But when a lot, enough for me or even other people to agree that American Cars quality is crappy ... then that tells you something doesn't it?

Did I make my comment without owning an American car ? NO
Did he make comments after owning a Japanese vehicle no he didn't. If you read what he says his family has only owned American/German so where does he get the basis for his comments.
And um.. yea fanbo.... that makes you what a rednec... I mean American Car Enthusiast.

 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
48
91
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

I would give the Expedition a (1) for the cheap, hard plasticy door panels and hard plastic dash, crappy looking guages, and plastic flash all over the interior. Stepping into a Sequoia after being in an Expedition is like going from coach to first-class.
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

Well going from an Expedition to an Acura would definitely change the feel in steering. I noticed when I switched over from a CR-V (awd) to an IS300..(rwd)
the twitch you refer to is probably the responsiveness

 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,407
8,595
126
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

I would give the Expedition a (1) for the cheap, hard plasticy door panels and hard plastic dash, crappy looking guages, and plastic flash all over the interior. Stepping into a Sequoia after being in an Expedition is like going from coach to first-class.

never been on singapore air, eh?

hard plastic and crapy looking guages aren't taken into account by the survey. i suppose you could write it in. i should scan this thing so everyone could take a look at it. how much do you really touch the dash, anyway?

i bet the BMW with i-drive gets bad ratings and most of them are related to i-drive being weird to operate.
 

isekii

Lifer
Mar 16, 2001
28,578
3
81
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

I would give the Expedition a (1) for the cheap, hard plasticy door panels and hard plastic dash, crappy looking guages, and plastic flash all over the interior. Stepping into a Sequoia after being in an Expedition is like going from coach to first-class.

never been on singapore air, eh?

hard plastic and crapy looking guages aren't taken into account by the survey. i suppose you could write it in. i should scan this thing so everyone could take a look at it.

i bet the BMW with i-drive gets bad ratings and most of them are related to i-drive being weird to operate.

But BMW has a good loyal customer base. Plus I think majority of the BMW's are leased. You'll get responses of all variants from everyone that has owned the vehicle. Like said, someone can give it all 1's for having crappy Fuel economy, but that's not just for one manufacturer.... I'm pretty sure Lexus gets fuel economy complaints like that as well.
My car guzzles gas like no tomorrow. (Lead foot doesn't help either) but I get about 275-325mpg on a close to 18gallon tank.

 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
76
Originally posted by: LeeTJ


most of you americans have NO idea what the japanese are capable of. You even believe the japanese are allies.

Yeah, we saw what they were capable of.

Then we showed them what WE are capable of and nuked them twice.
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
76
Originally posted by: bozack
I don't have as an emotional reason as Lee does, I just hate Japanese cars and won't buy one, simply because I grew up around a muscle car crowd and my parents hated Japanese autos...personally no matter how technically superior they are I just cannot bring myself to spend a dime on one...german, american, british...heck anything except japanese, and nothing anyone says will change that.

Ah yes, the "hate without reason" argument. Gotta love it.
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
76
Originally posted by: NFS4


Chevy can't match Toyota in cars.


THAT is a fact


The Chevy Prism matches up very well compared the the Toyota Corolla. That is a fact.


 

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
81
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

I would give the Expedition a (1) for the cheap, hard plasticy door panels and hard plastic dash, crappy looking guages, and plastic flash all over the interior. Stepping into a Sequoia after being in an Expedition is like going from coach to first-class.


All the hard plastic is really easy to clean for people that actually use their vehicles at work, all the soft-touch leather cushy stuff are things that look like total crap after a few years of usage.

Crappy looking gauges? It has a gas gauge and a speedometer that work, who the hell cares what they look like? If I could only count the number of hours I have sat out in the garage and wondered why Ford didnt put prettier gauges in it.

If a car starts every day and gets me and all my crap where I need to go everyday its a great vehicle.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

I would give the Expedition a (1) for the cheap, hard plasticy door panels and hard plastic dash, crappy looking guages, and plastic flash all over the interior. Stepping into a Sequoia after being in an Expedition is like going from coach to first-class.

Edmunds.com doesn't seem to agree with you on the Expedition interior.

Pros
Excellent interior design and comfort, wide-ranging versatility, impressive hauling capabilities, improved handling abilities, great crash test scores.
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
Originally posted by: Marshallj
Originally posted by: NFS4


Chevy can't match Toyota in cars.


THAT is a fact


The Chevy Prism matches up very well compared the the Toyota Corolla. That is a fact.


Actually it's just a rebadged Corolla ;) So yes, it is a fact. :D
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
76
Originally posted by: rbloedow
Honda will not build a V8 because it goes against one of the companies core values - to build vehicles that are good on gas. A V8 would ruin that. YOu'll be more likely to see a V6 coupled with an electric motor LONG before you see a V8 in a honda vehicle.

This is not true. V8's are not always gas guzzlers. The Corvette gets better highway mileage than most cars, even with its 5.7L V8. And it's a low emission vehicle too. It has an efficient engine.
 

Marshallj

Platinum Member
Mar 26, 2003
2,326
0
76
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Marshallj
Originally posted by: NFS4


Chevy can't match Toyota in cars.


THAT is a fact


The Chevy Prism matches up very well compared the the Toyota Corolla. That is a fact.


Actually it's just a rebadged Corolla ;) So yes, it is a fact. :D

hahaha, that was supposed to be a trick answer, lol

It's worth pointing out that GM and Toyota have had a close partnership for about 20 years. They jointly own some factories and co-produce cars there. The old Chevy Nova and the old Corolla were the same car, same with the Geo Prism, which turned into the Chevy Prism. The Pontiac Vibe/ Toyota Matrix is the same deal... same basic car, co-produced by their joint factory.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,407
8,595
126
Originally posted by: isekii
Originally posted by: ElFenix]

never been on singapore air, eh?

hard plastic and crapy looking guages aren't taken into account by the survey. i suppose you could write it in. i should scan this thing so everyone could take a look at it.

i bet the BMW with i-drive gets bad ratings and most of them are related to i-drive being weird to operate.

But BMW has a good loyal customer base. Plus I think majority of the BMW's are leased. You'll get responses of all variants from everyone that has owned the vehicle. Like said, someone can give it all 1's for having crappy Fuel economy, but that's not just for one manufacturer.... I'm pretty sure Lexus gets fuel economy complaints like that as well.
My car guzzles gas like no tomorrow. (Lead foot doesn't help either) but I get about 275-325mpg on a close to 18gallon tank.

bmw's customer base may be pretty loyal but that doesn't mean that they won't mark the radio, hvac, and whatever other controls that are on i-drive as hard to operate, because, like it or not, idrive is a very complicated system.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,407
8,595
126
Originally posted by: rbloedow
Honda will not build a V8 because it goes against one of the companies core values - to build vehicles that are good on gas. A V8 would ruin that. YOu'll be more likely to see a V6 coupled with an electric motor LONG before you see a V8 in a honda vehicle.

right, because the LS430, lincoln LS and caddy northstar don't make more torque, more power, and the same or better gas mileage than the acura RL.

oh wait they do!

heck, even the big ass towncar gets 1 less city and 1 more highway than the RL
 

sygyzy

Lifer
Oct 21, 2000
14,001
4
76
1. I agree with alot of what Lee (forgot his full name), the Korean said. Does not make him a racist boycotting a country's products. His statements are factual in nature and history books support it. I guess everyone could boycott something because I am sure everyone has been wronged by another country one way or another.

2. I love my 2000 Celica. I get thirty something MPG. Can you believe that? My family has always bought Toyota. We had a Cressida, 87 Camry, 94 Camry, 97 Camry, and now a Lexus. I forgot what model. BTW, alot of these were hand me downs so don't think we just bought a bunch of cars.

3. Whoever commented on Ford's decision not to redesign the gas tank on the Pinto, you have to understand economics. How does a company make a decision when lives are at stake? The only logical way is to place a value on lives. That's what the researchers did. They figured an American life in the 70's was worth X dollars. To redesign and replace the gas tanks, it would have cost more than that. This makes perfect sense. It is very cruel to say you can place a value on a life, but take a Law and Economics class and they do it all the time. It's very logical. Anyway, here is the problem - When juries hear about the company doing this, they are disgusted so they pay huge punitive damages.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,407
8,595
126
bah, i used to have a ford taurus, it had a v6 and was a pretty large car and it got 30 mpg.
 

tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,953
576
126
Originally posted by: Dacalo
yea i was discussing this with my management professor

he said american motor companies have placed themselves in a situation that would doom them unless they do something extraordinary (well, the japanese car companies have placed the american companies into that situation :p)
Well your management professor doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall, and you can tell him I said so.

If Flint's Buick City were still open, or if Chevrolet Truck and Bus hadn't only recently gone through some sweeping changes, I'd show you first hand exactly what happened to the domestic auto industry.

The unions forced the Big Three to pay some of the highest wages and comprehensive benefits to a massive workforce of fall-down drunks, drug addicts, and illiterates that the company could not get rid of because the union was simply too powerful and had the domestic auto industry solidly over a barrel for about 30 - 40 years.

I know, my whole drunken and illiterate family worked for General Motors, which the union membership 'affectionately' termed 'Generous Motors' because of the extremely favorable concessions, perks, raises, working conditions, and benefits GM offered the union just to get people to come to work sober at least once per week. Not that it really mattered, when they did show up reasonably sober, they were only marginally more productive than the dead.

Just as with the disputed issue during the recent Longshoreman's strike, the powerful UAW bitterly fought tooth and nail over every last nut and bolt of automation and technology that General Motors tried to bring in. So while the Japanese were building state-of-the-art manufacturing plants and firing anyone who didn't want to work, General Motors not by its own choice was still building cars not much differently than it had since the 1920s and was forced to keep the most incompetent employees on the payroll.

Drunks and drug addicts were sent to 'treatment' programs at the expense of General Motors. When they returned to work, they merely had to keep out of trouble for a period of one year, and their disciplinary record would then be totally expunged, so they could start all over at the beginning of the 'progressive discipline' process that the worst employees manipulated at will with the encouragement of the union.

They didn't call Flint's BOC Group "Buick City" for nothing, it was like a city. Not only because it was a massive complex, but because you could find anything under the sun there; drugs, gambling, prostitution, guns, theft, street 'vendors', grand larceny, you name it.

One of the largest drug rings ever known to be operating East of the Mississippi had high level dealers and traffickers operating right out of a General Motors plant in Flint, Michigan, exploiting the I-75 corridor from Florida. The security there was inadequate by design, the union made sure the security guards were union 'brothers', not 'corporate' security guards. There was no need to 'sneak' prostitutes or other illicit things through 'back doors', they walked right through the front gate.

My father, who retired from General Motors, recently went back to his former plant to see some co-workers. He was furious that security wouldn't let him in without a legitimate reason to be there, having never heard of such a thing in the entire 37 years he was employed there. They used to just let anyone walk straight in so long as you could drop the name of an employee who worked there. He actually made a scene and demanded to speak with a union representative, who came to the guard station and remembered my father but warned 'things aren't like they used to be when you worked here, they don't let people in to pay social visits anymore'.

General Motors offered my father and tens of thousands of others like him very lucrative 'buy-outs' to retire. Not because GM didn't want to pay the invariably higher wages and benefit costs of those with high seniority, but because he and tens of thousands of others like him were functionally illiterate and couldn't adapt to the technological changes that were happening around him in the plant, even though those technological and production changes were still 20+ years behind the Japanese.

When the learning curve had just begun, it wasn't so much of a problem, because not only was the pace of this adoption slower than evolution itself, GM just shuffled illiterates to positions that were still sufficiently behind the curve. As time went on, they began to have far more illiterates than positions to possibly put them in. At my father's plant alone, GM literally had hundreds of guys doing nothing and getting paid very well for it. Duplication was rampant, utilizing five workers to do what reasonably could have been done by one.

This became much of a joke to the workers, who would just take turns going to the bar or socializing or sleeping while the other one or two workers would 'cover' their job. They traded-off every so often, some wouldn't even come back to punch out at the end of their shift, so their buddies would punch them out.

At the end of every shift, there was a concerted effort to account for their 'buddies' who didn't make it back from the bar and punch them out so they wouldn't get in trouble. According to the union, if you punched your time card correctly from shift start to end, that means you were there and the company would have to provide hard evidence to prove you weren't. Not that it mattered, it was just a slap on the wrist if you were caught, the progressive discipline process fought for and won by the union enabled a worker to get caught multiple times before facing any harsh consequences.

I could go on and on....just the tip of the iceburg. Its actually somewhat of a miracle that any of the Big Three companies are still in business, General Motors particularly, considering how damaging unionism has been to the ability of these companies to compete. Nothing short of a miracle....
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,636
48
91
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

I would give the Expedition a (1) for the cheap, hard plasticy door panels and hard plastic dash, crappy looking guages, and plastic flash all over the interior. Stepping into a Sequoia after being in an Expedition is like going from coach to first-class.

Edmunds.com doesn't seem to agree with you on the Expedition interior.

Pros
Excellent interior design and comfort, wide-ranging versatility, impressive hauling capabilities, improved handling abilities, great crash test scores.

He said he drove a '99. '03 is the new gen.
 

rufruf44

Platinum Member
May 8, 2001
2,002
0
0
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Originally posted by: ElFenix
after having read my initial "quality" survey i've decided the survey is actually bullshIt and and much of it is subjective as heck since the person filling out the survey has probably driven, for long periods, a very small selection of vehicles. much of it is subjective comfort ratings.

that said, i thought infiniti was number 1 followed by lexus.

That is the whole problem with the survey, its all subjective.

I would have given my wifes Acura a 1 for comfort, I hate driving the damn thing. I think it is small, cramped and has twitchy steering.

She would give it a 10..she would give it a 10 for everything, she loves it.

Now when it comes to my Expedition, my wife would give it minus ratings across the board, while I think it gets 10's on all counts. She wouldnt drive that truck if you held a gun to her head, I think it is the epitome of a wonderful driving experience.

I would give the Expedition a (1) for the cheap, hard plasticy door panels and hard plastic dash, crappy looking guages, and plastic flash all over the interior. Stepping into a Sequoia after being in an Expedition is like going from coach to first-class.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Expedition also 5-6K cheaper than Sequioa? Some ppl might not want to spend the extra $$$ for better interior level.
 

LeeTJ

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2003
4,899
0
0
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Originally posted by: Dacalo
yea i was discussing this with my management professor

he said american motor companies have placed themselves in a situation that would doom them unless they do something extraordinary (well, the japanese car companies have placed the american companies into that situation :p)
Well your management professor doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall, and you can tell him I said so.

If Flint's Buick City were still open, or if Chevrolet Truck and Bus hadn't only recently gone through some sweeping changes, I'd show you first hand exactly what happened to the domestic auto industry.

The unions forced the Big Three to pay some of the highest wages and comprehensive benefits to a massive workforce of fall-down drunks, drug addicts, and illiterates that the company could not get rid of because the union was simply too powerful and had the domestic auto industry solidly over a barrel for about 30 - 40 years.

....


This is one of the reasons why i hate unions so much. At their peak they weilded MONOPOLY power. I just don't understand why no one else sees this. MONOPOLY power always leads to disaster. "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"



 

rufruf44

Platinum Member
May 8, 2001
2,002
0
0
Originally posted by: LeeTJ
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Originally posted by: Dacalo
yea i was discussing this with my management professor

he said american motor companies have placed themselves in a situation that would doom them unless they do something extraordinary (well, the japanese car companies have placed the american companies into that situation :p)
Well your management professor doesn't know his ass from a hole in the wall, and you can tell him I said so.

If Flint's Buick City were still open, or if Chevrolet Truck and Bus hadn't only recently gone through some sweeping changes, I'd show you first hand exactly what happened to the domestic auto industry.

The unions forced the Big Three to pay some of the highest wages and comprehensive benefits to a massive workforce of fall-down drunks, drug addicts, and illiterates that the company could not get rid of because the union was simply too powerful and had the domestic auto industry solidly over a barrel for about 30 - 40 years.

....



This is one of the reasons why i hate unions so much. At their peak they weilded MONOPOLY power. I just don't understand why no one else sees this. MONOPOLY power always leads to disaster. "power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Heh, can't they just fired everyone those UAW worker one plant at a time and replace them with non-union ? There's enough earnest, hard working people in this country thats looking for a decent job, which is much better than their lazy brethren.
 

tw1164

Diamond Member
Dec 8, 1999
3,995
0
76
Originally posted by: Synergy
Powered By Toyota

I love my Toyota! The only reason I've had to take it to the shop was inspection.

I'm looking to move up to a Lexus IS300 with my next car. :cool:

I don't really like car racing (I'm going to soon have to, I'm moving to Bristol TN), but I would love to see Toyota put more towards it. I think they have a NASCAR truck or "NASTRUCK"?? now.
 

computerboy2k1

Golden Member
Aug 13, 2002
1,549
0
0
All the cars I own are american except for the 1987 subaru turbo i pwn litterly taking it off jumps, doing doughnuts, burnouts, ralley racing etc. Thats all cars from overseas are worth to me. A place to take my rage and anger out on

These are pics from our subaru #1 which is totally dead
JUMPAGE OF SUBARU

SUBARU BURNOUT

SUBARU HITTING A BOX

SUBARU SIDE SHOT

SNOW BANK SUBARU

Dead pics

DEAD SUBARU SIDE SHOT



DEAD SUBARU REAR SHOT

DEAD SUBARU FRONT SHOT

ANOTHER DEAD PIC

SUBARU 2 next victim, turbo model so faster and more extreme madness


NEXT VICTIM

Many more pics, story on this car, and also the original pics before abuse
MORE PICS AND COMPLETE STORY ON THIS CAR