Problems with NEC FP2141SB 22 inch aperture grill displays

[dscline]

Actually, it's a quote from the manual for the 19" version, the NEC FP912SB. I'd have to assume your manual says the same thing. You can view them online at NEC's site... I was just reading to gather info. So I guess it's safe to say that it supports 1280x960 at the same refresh rates as 1280x1024?

Thanks for the info!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: dscline
Actually, it's a quote from the manual for the 19" version, the NEC FP912SB. I'd have to assume your manual says the same thing. You can view them online at NEC's site... I was just reading to gather info. So I guess it's safe to say that it supports 1280x960 at the same refresh rates as 1280x1024?

Thanks for the info!

Yes, my 2141 supports both res at 120 Hz. I went to the website and opened the manual for the 2141 and that text is not in there. For instance, the term "localized heating" is not in the manual - did a find. However, that probably applies to the 2141 too. Just goes to show that they're not completely organized. Well, I'm not either However, I haven't detected that problem with mine. Mine may have problems, but I'm not aware of any as such. The geometry was fine AFAIK, right out of the box once you push it to the edges.

 

[ArborBarber]

I've decided....I'm gonna get the 2070sb...from Dell, seeings how they have such a great return policy....I'll let ya know how it turns out!

 

[dscline]

And I just ordered the FP912SB from them. As late as earlier this morning, they have not carried this model. But I just happened to look again this evening, and suddenly it's there. So I ordered it while I could take advantage of the 10% off coupon. $265 shipped (by the time you add in ebates) isn't too bad... it's $50 cheaper than the Philips, so I guess I can get used to not having two inputs.

 

[ArborBarber]

Well...I'd like to keep this thread alive as I've ordered the 2070sb...and would like to relay to all my impressions of the monitor. I paid $671 all toll for it. Seeings how it's the same monitor as the 2141, we can compare notes....and problems(not many hopefully!!!)

 

[dscline]

And my 912 just showed up. I'll post anything of interest that I find. It's basically the same monitor, just 19", no 2nd input, no usb, and lower refresh rates (but also less than half the cost). It's the same design tube, and the same series (so should be similar electronics).

 

[dscline]

Just to follow up... I've got my 912 up and running. My previous monitor was a CTX PR960 (almost identical specs, but it uses the Sony Trinitron tube instead of the Mits). From a performance perspective, the ony issues I had with the CTX were some slight geometry issues, an "unclean" signal (looking closely at the screen, you could see a jitteryness or noise pattern in the pixels), and especially uniformity. For example, a solid white screen would not have consistent brightness in all areas. But the kicker was that it died after about sixe months. CTX repaired it under warranty, but returned it in horrible shape, both physically (cabinet), and the picture was COMPLETELY screwed up (total discoloration in the right 25% of the screen). Not only would they rectify that, they wouldn't ever return my phone calls or emails about the issue. This was 2.5 years ago, and I've been living with that ever since.

So I finally got tired of it, and replaced it with the 912. ALL the issues I had with the CTX are much improved. The signal looks MUCH cleaner (which I'm a littlel surprised at, because I did notice an improvement in this area when I switched to BNC cables on the CTX, and the NEC doesn't have BNC inputs... I was afraid that the signal would suffer because of that). The geometry is better, and there are a couple more options for tweaking even further. And much better brightness consistency across the screen.

There is, however, one area that I think the CTX was a little better at: focus. The focus on the NEC is not consistent. There are parts of the screen (surprisingly, the sides) that are as good as, or maybe even better than, the CTX. But there are other areas where the focus is definitely worse. Especially the very bottom, and to some extent, the middle. When I look down at my task bar, I feel like I need to rub my eyes, because it's definitely not as clear there as I'm used to. There are no user focus adjustments... I wonder if a technician could improve this? I haven't noticed any of the issues others have mentioned here... no dead phosphors, and no vertical lines. Geometry is great, and the electronics seem to be of higher quality than the CTX. Plus, it's a MUCH more compact cabinet. That's a big issue for me.

EDIT: Also forgot to add that it seems more energy efficient. It puts out noticeably less heat than the CTX.

All in all, it's an improvement over the CTX. And CTX is not even an option anyway, due to their HORRIBLE support. At least I feel like NEC has a better reputation in this area, should I ever need it.

 

[Muse]

Dscline, did you get yours from Dell? If the focus is problematic (sounds like it is), you can RMA. If the replacement is the same you can conclude they're all like that, but there's a really good chance it won't be. If there's a convergence adjustment you may be able to improve the focus that way. If there isn't a return to defaults control, I'd write down the defaults for convergence before messing with them. It may have been optimized for the recommended resolution, maybe not. Are you running at the recommended resolution and refresh rate? I'm guessing that they optimize it (they should) for that res/refresh. However, a CRT isn't supposed to be like an LCD where it really does only run well at the recommended resolution.

My 2141 runs pretty cool and uses around 100 watts, which surprised me. I expected it to use around 140 watts, like the documentation says. My 17" uses 80 watts.

When it comes to your monitor, I think you should be fussy. RMA that sucker if you can.

 

[dscline]

Yeah, I did get it through Dell. I guess I could do that... do they send you a replacement before you have to send yours back? It's not bad, but text is noticeably less clear than the CTX in several areas of the screen. In ALL other aspects (color, geometry, noise level, etc.), the NEC is superior.

The more I use it, the more I notice color. The CTX had pretty bad color rendering. Things are much closer to what they should be now.

EDIT: and I'm generally running at 1280x1024, or 1280x960, at 100Mhz. The CTX's focus lead is smaller at 1600x1200. Probably because it's electronics don't handle the higher bandwidth as cleanly.

I have adjusted convergence. It was pretty close to where it should be out of the box. I only had to make very minor adjustments to both vertical and horizontal. It's not a convergence issue, as even a solid color (R, B, or G) line is wider in some parts of the screen than it is in others.

 

[Muse]

What is the recommended resolution/refresh combination? Have you tried it at those settings? Yes, I believe Dell will cross ship.

 

[dscline]

Recommended is 1280x1024x85. Going down to 85hz MIGHT make it a little clearer, it's hard to tell. If so, not by much. I can notice the refresh difference between 85hz and 100hz more than I can notice any clarity difference between the two refresh rates.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: dscline
Recommended is 1280x1024x85. Going down to 85hz MIGHT make it a little clearer, it's hard to tell. If so, not by much. I can notice the refresh difference between 85hz and 100hz more than I can notice any clarity difference between the two refresh rates.

I'm OK with anything over 60 Hz. Well, I never run below 85 as a general rule, but even when I'm running 75 I wouldn't notice a problem. That is, I wouldn't realize I'm not running higher. When I go to 100 Hz, I detect a slight degradation of focus, so I'm sticking with 85. For Internet browsing I'm running at 1280 x 1024, not the recommended, but easier on my eyes. I could handle Anandtech Forums at 1600 x 1200 because I have a larger than default font size in my Anandtech preferences. But for ordinary Internet browsing, 1600 x 1200 (the recommended res along with 85 hz) is just too high a res for comfort, at least at sites that don't allow the size of type to be increased with IE 6. In fact for some of those, I will drop down to an even lower res.

 

[0Akira0]

Hey ArborBarber, did you get your 2070SB yet? I was going to get one of those, but I decided to wait until you reported back. I'm still waiting for you to report back! : \

 

[datamage]

What happened to Arbor? I was looking forward to his impressions of the 2070.

Anyhow, I ordered one as well (just waiting for shipping confirmation from mwave.) Once I have it up and running, I hope to post some impressions of it. It's been hard trying to dig up some impressions on the FP2141/2070SB.

- D.

 

[warmonger]

I've got a 2070SB. Surprised that you all have heard about it, actually. Anyway, the one that I have has some slight convergence issues at certain resolutions and refresh rates. Right now, at 1600*1200 and 100hz, everything looks absolutely incredible. Perfect looking colors and really sharp text. Let me tell you, this is actually a killer gaming monitor. If you have a card that is powerful enough, you don't need anti-aliasing at max resolution. I was shocked at how much of a difference there is in games. SuperBright mode is useful in some movies and games too. I can't stand looking at my 19" Dell 1226hs anymore, and that's a perfectly fine monitor. That said, I do wish there was a comparable shadow-mask tube, because thin vertical lines are almost invisible at high resolutions.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: warmonger
I've got a 2070SB. Surprised that you all have heard about it, actually. Anyway, the one that I have has some slight convergence issues at certain resolutions and refresh rates. Right now, at 1600*1200 and 100hz, everything looks absolutely incredible. Perfect looking colors and really sharp text. Let me tell you, this is actually a killer gaming monitor. If you have a card that is powerful enough, you don't need anti-aliasing at max resolution. I was shocked at how much of a difference there is in games. SuperBright mode is useful in some movies and games too. I can't stand looking at my 19" Dell 1226hs anymore, and that's a perfectly fine monitor. That said, I do wish there was a comparable shadow-mask tube, because thin vertical lines are almost invisible at high resolutions.

From what I hear you will not find a CRT without convergence issues. It's just a question of how bad they are. My 2141 doesn't have uniformly sharp text everywhere, but it's pretty darn good. I've found the geometry to be correctable to what is for me very very good. I like the Bright and Super Bright modes tremendously. I haven't used my Nanao F2-17ex since I got my 2141. I didn't dream that would happen. For my other system I'm going to get a 20 or 19 inch LCD eventually. Meantime, both my systems are on the 2141.

 

[FacelessNobody]

As a follow up, the FP2141SB I ended up with is superb. No problems at all .

 

[Muse]

Two things that do bother me:

1. The On light is too bright
2. The buttons and descriptions of their purpose on the front are hard as heck to see

To solve both these problems I taped a piece of paper over that portion of the case, which is under the bottom bezel. On that paper I have written with a pen the positions of the bottons and their functions. It also cuts down on the brightness of the On light - problems solved.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Holy god damn, UNBELIEVABLE!!! My FP2141 is doing something strange now. Like RIGHT AFTER I made that above post, it gives me this crap. The image will suddenly lose control and get really blurry until I power the monitor off. WHAT THE HELL!!?!?!?!?! Is there some sort of monitor-geist in my room or something? Looks like I get to do this over again (fourth try now). Admins, excuse me, but FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Holy god damn, UNBELIEVABLE!!! My FP2141 is doing something strange now. Like RIGHT AFTER I made that above post, it gives me this crap. The image will suddenly lose control and get really blurry until I power the monitor off. WHAT THE HELL!!?!?!?!?! Is there some sort of monitor-geist in my room or something? Looks like I get to do this over again (fourth try now). Admins, excuse me, but FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, Faceless, I just had to laugh! Hmmm. I dunno. Maybe you should check out your AC. Is your monitor plugged into a quality surge protector? Man, I hope you get a monitor that doesn't present you with any problems. I think mine might be a bit blearier than when I first got it, but I can't really say for sure. However, other than maybe a little more fuzziness in the upper left corner, it's been like a rock. I must admit that for over a month I didn't even have any surge protection or a grounded outlet. Now I'm on a surge protector but I still haven't grounded my outlet. It's on my must-do list. Keep us posted! Is it useable in the meantime? Whatcha gonna do?

Edit: Is it possible that something is creating a strong magnetic field near your monitor? Stranger things have happened. Do you have another monitor you can test your system on? Video card?

 

[0Akira0]

It's been a while, but I finally got my 2070SB. It's pretty good. It's hard to judge compared to other monitors, since I only have experience of an Compaq LCD and an old Gateway 17". I'll try to say what think regardless! I'm using the Hercules GF3 (original) with it BTW...

I've been using the auto adjust feature of the monitor to let it decide itself how the geometry should be. It seems to work pretty well, though it might be setup to be on ther conservative side - there's about ~1cm black gap between the picture and the edge of the screen, all around.

Colours are uniform, brightness is great - Superbright mode allows you to experience the brightness of a nuclear detonation, with slightly less danger! Seriously though , SB mode 1 is good for images (as it's supposed to be), SB mode 2 is supposed to be good for movies, but I haven't used it. That ~1cm gap I was talking about turns dark grey in either SB mode, or if I just have the brightness up really high. Brightness and contrast are cuttently set at 30.1% and 80.0% repectively. How does this compare with the rest of you?

1600x1200 is great for games/images, a little too small/fuzzy for the windows desktop I found though. The one thing I don't like are the two faint horizontal lines, one a 1/4 the way up, and the other 3/4 way up. This is normal, but I'm just not used to it. The old 17" didn't do this. It's only really visible when looking at bright screens, like documents/web.

Nothing else noteworthy.

P.S. I don't write reviews, and this is an example of why!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: 0Akira0
It's been a while, but I finally got my 2070SB. It's pretty good. It's hard to judge compared to other monitors, since I only have experience of an Compaq LCD and an old Gateway 17". I'll try to say what think regardless! I'm using the Hercules GF3 (original) with it BTW...

I've been using the auto adjust feature of the monitor to let it decide itself how the geometry should be. It seems to work pretty well, though it might be setup to be on ther conservative side - there's about ~1cm black gap between the picture and the edge of the screen, all around.

Colours are uniform, brightness is great - Superbright mode allows you to experience the brightness of a nuclear detonation, with slightly less danger! Seriously though , SB mode 1 is good for images (as it's supposed to be), SB mode 2 is supposed to be good for movies, but I haven't used it. That ~1cm gap I was talking about turns dark grey in either SB mode, or if I just have the brightness up really high. Brightness and contrast are cuttently set at 30.1% and 80.0% repectively. How does this compare with the rest of you?

1600x1200 is great for games/images, a little too small/fuzzy for the windows desktop I found though. The one thing I don't like are the two faint horizontal lines, one a 1/4 the way up, and the other 3/4 way up. This is normal, but I'm just not used to it. The old 17" didn't do this. It's only really visible when looking at bright screens, like documents/web.

Nothing else noteworthy.

P.S. I don't write reviews, and this is an example of why!

0Akira0, after you do the auto adjust you shouldn't just leave it like that. It's a good place to start but after doing that, center the image and then stretch vertically and horizontally until it just barely starts to disappear, back off one press of the button and it's perfectly pushed to the edges. You don't want to sacrifice one cm at each edge, no way in the world. I've been using 1280 x 1024 85 Hz as my typical res. I read a lot of small type, is why. A lot of people use 1600 x 1200, but to me it's too small too much of the time. I use Multires, which makes changing res quick, but I don't do that a lot. I also use a utility called Wintidy which restores the position of your desktop icons if that gets messed up by switching resolutions. Been using them for years. To me, your brightness/contrast settings are a little high. I sometimes boost them up to that level but I bring them back down for general use. I keep my room sort of dim, is why. If I have overhead lighting, I put a shade between the light and the screen so there's no glare or reflection of direct light coming off the screen. I don't let those horizontal lines bother me. I watched a movie last night with SB 2 mode. SB is a fantastic feature. I use it in conjunction with Brightness Controller, a great utility you can get at the NEC/Mitsu site. I even use that utility when I'm not using SB, since it lets me use my mouse to control brightness. I like to play with that adjustment a lot.