Problems with NEC FP2141SB 22 inch aperture grill displays

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
They must put all the smarter people on phone duty. Everyone I've talked to at NEC over the phone has been very helpful. Personally, Gosharkss reply to that message is what has convinced me to RMA till satisfied. He said he wouldn't accept a monitor with a missing phosphor, and he's our monitor expert around here, so I'll take his advice. An enthusiast's computer is an ongoing project anyway, and I have time. Also, both of my monitors have had excellent text sharpness.

Righto, thanks for the tips. Where did Gosharkss say he wouldn't accept a monitor with a black pixel? I wanna see it, I wanna, I wanna...

I haven't talked to anyone at NEC. I've talked to quite a few Dell people and YMMV, believe me. Really cool and sharp sounding people some of them, and some relatively clueless. I've heard nothing from anybody since I set up my RMA Friday afternoon and am feeling like I've fallen through the cracks. I'm not in a giant hurry.

Faceless, your text is sharp ALL OVER???? I'm jealous. Honestly, I would be ecstatic if I get one that's sharp all over and doesn't have geometric and other anomalies.

 

[Gosharkss]

Most manufactuers would consider a dead spot on a CRT monitor to be a defect. Personally I would not accept a CRT monitor with a dead spot, there I said it.

LCD's on the other hand are a different story.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: Gosharkss
Most manufactuers would consider a dead spot on a CRT monitor to be a defect. Personally I would not accept a CRT monitor with a dead spot, there I said it.

LCD's on the other hand are a different story.

Thanks, Jim. Much appreciated! Thanks too for your great monitor tools.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Oh man, this just gets worse for me.

Now the retailer I bought the first monitor from is shafting me. When I received my replacement monitor from them, I sent the old one back. When the package got there, it was refused. The reason is that it didn't have an RMA number, which I would normally fully understand, BUT THEY NEVER ISSUED ME ONE!!! All I got was a second invoice! They said I had to include a "letter of explanation" which I did include, so I thought that's what they used to handle their RMAs. I included all invoice numbers, account numbers, etc. Now the package is back at the place I shipped it from, I've sent several emails to this company and they haven't responded (been 3 days now). I learned about how the package was refused through a rather volatile phone conversation with some snotty English-as-a-second-language customer service rep who really pissed me off. It seemed like he thought my firmness was some kind of arrogant attack. I told them I want an RMA number and a prepaid shipping ticket thingy cause I will not pay another 80 some odd dollars to ship this (defective) heavy bastard again. They've got one more day to contact me or VISA will be witholding payment to them, and as an evil mega-corporation I'm sure VISA will be glad to avoid paying anything . The measure of this company's worth will be whether or not they do the right thing and take care of their customer, and they're failing horribly right now.

 

[Muse]

Did you check out amatteroffax.com at resellerratings.com before you bought? I think it will be well worth your while to read as many customer reviews of that company at resellerratings.com as you can stand, to get an idea of what you can expect from them. Reading such reviews often gives you excellent ideas on how to handle disputes, difficulties, RMA's, etc. Sometimes you are tipped off who to avoid, who you really DO want to deal with, etc. Good luck on this and all I can say is try to be patient but don't fall off their radar. I think a lot of people get crummy service because they don't pursue things properly. This is an impression I get from reading people's posts and especially reviews of vendors. If you have to do an attitude adjustment, well that's life. I do those frequently. Again, good luck.

 

[FacelessNobody]

Sigh, story update:

Amatteroffax is impossible to get ahold of. Their telephone CS reps are terrible, and they're not responding to my countless emails. I called NEC today (Saturday) and their rep said I should wait till Monday when their level two techs are in. Apparently, and hopefully, they can help me.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: FacelessNobody
Sigh, story update:

Amatteroffax is impossible to get ahold of. Their telephone CS reps are terrible, and they're not responding to my countless emails. I called NEC today (Saturday) and their rep said I should wait till Monday when their level two techs are in. Apparently, and hopefully, they can help me.

Good thing NEC is standing behind their product. A product warranty is great to fall back on if your vendor won't take care of you. I think NEC/Mitsubishi will see you through.

FYI, I did some tests on the 2141 and although the documentation says it draws 140 watts, I found it only draws around 98 watts, at least at the brightness I was using and nothing special going on - I wasn't playing a game or watching a video. Maybe those activities would boost power consumption. They say that in standby (when the computer is off, that is, but the monitor's not turned off with the power button) it draws less than 3 watts. I measured around 6 watts, though. I think I'll be turning mine off. I'm in power conservation sensitive California. I tried to get ahold of Dell Friday afternoon, but wasn't ready for it. I need the numbers, my customer number, maybe my order number, lots of patience and careful attentiveness to the voice messaging systems. The goal - to get a live person. If you get transfered to another department, to get another live person, etc. until you get a person in a position to help. Got to make sure my RMA is proceeding because I've gotten no word for over a week.

I've tried everything I can think of but can't get the DDC/CI (Naviset) to work. That's another thing I have to pursue.

 

[TourGuide]

Well boys, both mine are headed back to the factory. The second 2141 developed fuzzy text, or maybe I just noticed it when I was comapring it my wife's E540.

In either case, I am now sitting in front of a Sony G520P which (in my opinion) is infinately superior to either of the NECs I tried to buy. The ONLY thing that the NECs had over this was slightly better vertical color convergence on the left hand side of the screen. Other than that, EVERYTHING else is superior. The geometry is dang near perfect, the text sharpness is stunning (even very small text), the color purity is flawless. I am highly impressed. After 4 tries I have a winner.

I know this isn't going to make faceless any happier, but Dell has been great throughout it all. They have been pretty much hassle free all the way, so I am pleased. Now I can get on with life. Muse and Faceless keep us up on how your situations turn out. Mine is resolved.

Cheers!

 

[Muse]

TourGuide, was there a price adjustment? How did you work that out? I haven't heard from Dell for 9 days since I set up my RMA. I'm thinking now I too should maybe go with that Sony, so often recommended here in the Anandtech Forums. Seems like less of a crapshoot. I'm calling Dell tomorrow. Can you give me some tips on how to get service from them? I have a hard time reaching a human to begin with. Thanks.

 

[TourGuide]

I called the 1-800-624-9897 which is their CSR number for home users. I unfortunately didn't get the 10%, but I did get free shipping which, although it was ground, turned out to be an overnight deal for me. I just politely told them what I wanted and they responded. Now, that being said, I have NOT gotten my return shipping labels yet from Dell. A fact that is distressing to me because I want a RAPID credit. Aside from that, when I have called Dell I've spent some time on hold, but generally (aside from some screwups) they've been pretty good for me.

 

[Muse]

I'm researching before I call Dell. Want to make up my mind about some things first. Meantime (in the midst of my research) I came upon another monitor test utility freely downloadable, the Nokia NTEST.EXE monitor test utility. It's a zipfile and you explode it and run the Install.exe program and choose your installation location and the program appears in your Start/Programs menu. It has a Help area, and supports changing a lot of settings (in the test program, not your monitor!) with left mouse clicks (Wow!). Some of it is very much like what you'll see in Naviset (even when it doesn't work right, it does give you some evaluation patterns), and at Monitorsdirect.com, but there's a bunch of other things.

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide
I called the 1-800-624-9897 which is their CSR number for home users. I unfortunately didn't get the 10%, but I did get free shipping which, although it was ground, turned out to be an overnight deal for me. I just politely told them what I wanted and they responded. Now, that being said, I have NOT gotten my return shipping labels yet from Dell. A fact that is distressing to me because I want a RAPID credit. Aside from that, when I have called Dell I've spent some time on hold, but generally (aside from some screwups) they've been pretty good for me.

I spent quite a bit of time today before I could get a human on the phone at Dell. The 9897 number was no better. I got dropped lines and silent black holes - over half dozen. I finally got through at 800-274-0696, then option 4 (all other ...). I explained that I'd arranged an RMA but never got the shipping label which I had an appointment to receive over a week ago. I said I have heard of a number of these NEC monitors that were defective and had to be RMA'd and have yet to hear of one which was acceptable and that I'd decided that the odds of my being pleased were a lot better if I got the Sony CPD-G520 instead. She sounded extremely bored, but accommodating anyway. She said she could arrange for me to return my NEC for credit but that I'd have to pay return shipping. I could order the Sony through her or online and she told me that I could get free shippoing and a 10% discount if I ordered online. I asked her to guide me to where I could get those perks and she eventually decided that the 10% didn't apply to this monitor, however I can get free shipping and the price is about $705. So, I have to call Airborne or UPS or Fedex and arrange for them to pick up my NEC and order my Sony whereever, however if I want that. There's free shipping if I order by tonight, if I'm to believe what I saw earlier today at Dell online.

TourGuide, you say that you expect a shipping label for your NEC? Maybe I can lean on them to send me one, however the rep I talked to told me it was on me to get it back to them... unless I exchange for the same monitor, that is.

 

[TourGuide]

TourGuide, you say that you expect a shipping label for your NEC? Maybe I can lean on them to send me one, however the rep I talked to told me it was on me to get it back to them... unless I exchange for the same monitor, that is.

Well, THAT is a little disturbing to say the least! Airborne picked up both my monitors yesterday because I called Dell and said, WHERE are my shipping lables?! The nice lady on the other end of the phone finally said let me arrange to have your monitors picked up tomorrow by airborne. I said, great, and I'm thinking WHAT was so hard about that? Why couldn't we have just done this in the first place. Oh well. Monitors are gone now and for now, I am satisfied.

I think your glitch with them was in telling them you've got a non-defective return. That would be my guess. Did you know it's about 80 bones to send one of those things cross country?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: TourGuide

TourGuide, you say that you expect a shipping label for your NEC? Maybe I can lean on them to send me one, however the rep I talked to told me it was on me to get it back to them... unless I exchange for the same monitor, that is.

Well, THAT is a little disturbing to say the least! Airborne picked up both my monitors yesterday because I called Dell and said, WHERE are my shipping lables?! The nice lady on the other end of the phone finally said let me arrange to have your monitors picked up tomorrow by airborne. I said, great, and I'm thinking WHAT was so hard about that? Why couldn't we have just done this in the first place. Oh well. Monitors are gone now and for now, I am satisfied.

I think your glitch with them was in telling them you've got a non-defective return. That would be my guess. Did you know it's about 80 bones to send one of those things cross country?

I don't know. The rep sounded SOOOOOOoooo bored! I could try again. Hell, if I have to pay shipping (I checked with UPS and it's about $58 for me from Berkeley, CA to TX, $2 being for $650 insurance), and not get the 10% discount on the Sony, I'm paying an extra $100 to get the Sony instead. That gives me pause. And that's IF I can get free shipping for the Sony. I guess I can press the issue and maybe get better results. I didn't tell them my return was "non-defective". I explained the circumstance, and really, I think they SHOULD be bending over backwards to show me some service here. The RMA seems to have fallen through the cracks. If I act indignant enough I imagine they would be a little conciliatory. I just don't know if I can get myself up for that. I think it depends on how I feel about the monitor I have now. It's got definite imperfections and every one of the damn packing blocks is busted, one basically all the way through. Somebody tossed that thing like they hated it. Just for that, I may get steamed enough to give them a piece of my mind,although I won't even mention THAT, which is not a defect. It's really kind of funny. They one defect on this thing that I can pin on them to warrant an RMA is something that seems pretty insignificant to me - that black pixel. If that were the only thing wrong with it I wouldn't even entertain the idea of returning it at this point.

 

[ArborBarber]

WOW! All I want is a decent 20" + monitor! I was thinking of going with NEC/Mitsubishi 2070SB but now I have my doubts! The Sony didn't fair as well in TomsHardware reviews as the Mitsubishi...now I'm really concerned....maybe I'll just spend the $1500 bucks and get one I know is problem free! Any recommendations?

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: ArborBarber
WOW! All I want is a decent 20" + monitor! I was thinking of going with NEC/Mitsubishi 2070SB but now I have my doubts! The Sony didn't fair as well in TomsHardware reviews as the Mitsubishi...now I'm really concerned....maybe I'll just spend the $1500 bucks and get one I know is problem free! Any recommendations?

Ya know what? In my admittedly inexperienced opinion I don't think there is a monitor out there you can buy and be confident it's going to be fine. I've bought 3 monitors, the first used, the other two new. They were all acceptable, but none was perfect. I've read a lot of posts, a whole lot. I'd say the number one thing is to buy from a vendor who will exchange if you don't like it. Dell is like that, from what I understand. 30 day policy of satisfaction. You could get the 2141 and if it's got problems, exchange it and keep exchanging it until you think it's OK. Or you could get the Sony. IMO, you stand a better chance of not getting a lemon with the Sony, FWIW. However I think a "perfect" 2141 may be better than a "perfect" Sony, talking about the G520 here. If you want to go with an F series Sony for 1500 to 2000, well, I hear not all of them are sharp corner to corner either. Read this thread. Good luck! I hope you get a monitor you REALLY like! I'm really pleased with mine so far.

 

[0Akira0]

I was thinking of getting a Mitsubishi 2070SB, but after reading the (apparently) only reviews of it's NEC brother here, I just may not! Those Sonys are pretty expensive though. The local computer store is selling a Sony E530 at ?1099 inc. VAT - that's about $1186 USD (@ 1:1.08 exchange rate) and that's a lower quality than the Gxxx Sonys you guys have now, so I just might push my luck and get one anyway!

I've seen the specs for the Mitsubishi 2070SB and other monitors seem to indicate that there are 2 VGA connectors. Is this true? Can you have two machines connected to the one monitor, and not suffer the ghosting like I'm getting with my switch box? Of course, nobody has any NEC monitors to try this out now, do they?!!

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: 0Akira0
I was thinking of getting a Mitsubishi 2070SB, but after reading the (apparently) only reviews of it's NEC brother here, I just may not! Those Sonys are pretty expensive though. The local computer store is selling a Sony E530 at ?1099 inc. VAT - that's about $1186 USD (@ 1:1.08 exchange rate) and that's a lower quality than the Gxxx Sonys you guys have now, so I just might push my luck and get one anyway!

I've seen the specs for the Mitsubishi 2070SB and other monitors seem to indicate that there are 2 VGA connectors. Is this true? Can you have two machines connected to the one monitor, and not suffer the ghosting like I'm getting with my switch box? Of course, nobody has any NEC monitors to try this out now, do they?!!

I'm at this moment looking at my NEC FP2141SB and it's connected to my two networked PCs, which are for the time being side by side. The PCs are plugged into the two VGA inputs on the 2141. There's a button on the front of the monitor that you press to switch to the other PC. Works absolutely perfectly. No ghosting, I couldn't want anything more as far as that feature is concerned. It also has a 4 port USB hub. I really love this monitor. I think the issue is you may get a lemon as there seem to be a lot of them out there. It could be the ones made in Nov. 2002, I don't know. You may have better luck with the Mitsubishi. I think they really are the same monitor. A number of things could account for the quality control problems. If you get this you should certainly get it from a vendor who will give you an exchange in the event of a problem. Mine has one black pixel but I consider that to be inconsequential in the extreme. I don't think I will EVER notice it unless I look for it - it's THAT tiny. This monitor is the best I have ever seen anywhere. It's orders of magnitude brighter than my other monitor - bright enough for movies with plenty to spare. I've done a lot of research on the Sony CPD-G520 and a lot of those are less than perfect. I was intending to but I decided against RMAing my NEC in favor of that Sony. The pixel was sufficient justification to the vendor/company, but not to me! I don't like my odds of getting a Sony that's a significant improvement on this one. That's a chance I am definitely not willing to take, so THIS is MY monitor! Where are you? Japan? I think the Nec/Mitsubishi's are made in Japan. What's VAT?

 

[0Akira0]

...The PCs are plugged into the two VGA inputs on the 2141. There's a button on the front of the monitor that you press to switch to the other PC. Works absolutely perfectly. No ghosting...

That's what I wanted to hear! Thanks for that info! I guess VGA switch boxes like the one I have now are ok for not-often-visited server rooms where the image quality is not paramount - there's noticable ghosting. But this is a really cool feature I wasn't even aware of until I went hunting for a new monitor! I went looking on the Mitsubishi website, and also at the PDF manual for the 2070SB, and it didin't exactly declare it as a feature. As far as I could see, it mentioned it had 2xVGA connectors and that's it.

...I've done a lot of research on the Sony CPD-G520 and a lot of those are less than perfect...

I haven't done any research into what reviews that Sony is getting, but despite that, I'd imagine it could be partly due it's greater popularity, compared to the 2070SB/FP2141SB. Of course, radioactive waste seems to be more popular compared to the 2070SB aswell (dunno 'bout FP2141SB), if you were to judge by the amount of references to it on the web! I haven't found a good "monitor review site" yet. Plenty of sites willing to talk for days about GeForces and nForces and GaleForces! Any of the regular hardware sites I go to have a monitor review every six months or so! Has anyone else found a good site? (User reviews on sites that give price listings can be quite good too, but I wonder sometimes if they're all genuine? Does 'company x' have a department specfically designed to sabotage competitors products with bad reviews? Nah, couldn't be...)

...This monitor is the best I have ever seen anywhere. It's orders of magnitude brighter than my other monitor - bright enough for movies with plenty to spare...

Ahhh, back more on topic...
My main motivation for getting this monitor was for playing games and more 'document' real estate, but now that I think of it, it's 20" viewable - an unforseen improvement over my 17"CRT /15.1"LCD current as regards DVD viewing.

Where are you? Japan?

I didn't think my English was that bad! Maybe it's the accent?! Seriously though, my Eurocentric price quoting should have given it away. Unles you can't see the Euro symbol properly on youe machine or something. Spot the Euro symbol game: ->?<- attempted again. Or unless you saw the huge price and concluded it must be Yen - I'm afraid not, it is actually that high in Euro!

What's VAT?

Heh! I'm laughing at myself here. It was foolish of me to assume that everyone else in the world was also afflicted with Value Added Tax. Or at least by that name.

Anyway, thanks again for the review! If I do finally get a 2070SB, I'll of course report back here to 2020SB/FP2141SB review HQ, with news of my success or otherwise...

 

[Muse]

Originally posted by: 0Akira0

...The PCs are plugged into the two VGA inputs on the 2141. There's a button on the front of the monitor that you press to switch to the other PC. Works absolutely perfectly. No ghosting...

That's what I wanted to hear! Thanks for that info! I guess VGA switch boxes like the one I have now are ok for not-often-visited server rooms where the image quality is not paramount - there's noticable ghosting. But this is a really cool feature I wasn't even aware of until I went hunting for a new monitor! I went looking on the Mitsubishi website, and also at the PDF manual for the 2070SB, and it didin't exactly declare it as a feature. As far as I could see, it mentioned it had 2xVGA connectors and that's it.

...I've done a lot of research on the Sony CPD-G520 and a lot of those are less than perfect...

I haven't done any research into what reviews that Sony is getting, but despite that, I'd imagine it could be partly due it's greater popularity, compared to the 2070SB/FP2141SB. Of course, radioactive waste seems to be more popular compared to the 2070SB aswell (dunno 'bout FP2141SB), if you were to judge by the amount of references to it on the web! I haven't found a good "monitor review site" yet. Plenty of sites willing to talk for days about GeForces and nForces and GaleForces! Any of the regular hardware sites I go to have a monitor review every six months or so! Has anyone else found a good site? (User reviews on sites that give price listings can be quite good too, but I wonder sometimes if they're all genuine? Does 'company x' have a department specfically designed to sabotage competitors products with bad reviews? Nah, couldn't be...)

...This monitor is the best I have ever seen anywhere. It's orders of magnitude brighter than my other monitor - bright enough for movies with plenty to spare...

Ahhh, back more on topic...
My main motivation for getting this monitor was for playing games and more 'document' real estate, but now that I think of it, it's 20" viewable - an unforseen improvement over my 17"CRT /15.1"LCD current as regards DVD viewing.

Where are you? Japan?

I didn't think my English was that bad! Maybe it's the accent?! Seriously though, my Eurocentric price quoting should have given it away. Unles you can't see the Euro symbol properly on youe machine or something. Spot the Euro symbol game: ->?<- attempted again. Or unless you saw the huge price and concluded it must be Yen - I'm afraid not, it is actually that high in Euro!

What's VAT?

Heh! I'm laughing at myself here. It was foolish of me to assume that everyone else in the world was also afflicted with Value Added Tax. Or at least by that name.

Anyway, thanks again for the review! If I do finally get a 2070SB, I'll of course report back here to 2020SB/FP2141SB review HQ, with news of my success or otherwise...

Ah, I didn't know the Euro symbol, sorry! I took you for Japanese not by virtue of your English (which IS quite excellent), but your username = 0Akira0. I figured your name is Akira and the only other Akira I know of is Akira Kurosawa, the Japanese film director of considerable repute and accomplishment. Hope to hear your review of whatever you get here. If you are using a 17", then you are like me. Until a few weeks ago I was using a 17" and happy enough with it. This 22" NEC (20 viewable) has me spoiled. I don't know if I will ever be able to go back to using that 17", which was the best of its day, Nanao F2-17ex. Compared to this NEC it's blurry and very very dark, although I can turn it up for everyday computing, but for movies it sucks. You're right, it's hard to find user reviews of these monitors, but these are recent. The Sony's been out for a long time.

I have one of those A/B switches to switch between monitors and I guess I could use it to switch between PCs. I picked it up at a computer show but I've never had occasion to use it. Good chance I never will.

 

[Snerticus]

Just my two cents... I purchased ,new, a Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 200 (22" FST) years ago, and it has been fantastic. Last year, I purchased off Ebay, a refurbed Gateway VX1120, which I believe, is a re-badged Mitsu Diamond Pro 2040u. Perfect condition and function...Last week, I bought another used Diamond Pro 2020u, also without any defects... I am spoiled by the large, vibrant display of a Mitsubishi monitor. I hope you find resolution to your problems...

 

[astro]

I have to say that having silently followed this thread since the beginning, I was a little skeptical about ordering the FP2141SB. Originally, I had decided on the Mitsubishi DP2070SB and even though these two monitors are identical, I figured maybe I'd have better luck with the Mitsu....However, it seemed that no respectible online vendor had the Mitsubishi in stock so, I decided to take my chances with the NEC. I ordered it from buy.com since I've had good luck with RMA's from them in the past.

I guess maybe I got lucky. This monitor is without a doubt the Best Looking Monitor I have ever seen!!!! The auto adjust was great right out of the box....only took a little extra tweaking. The geometry is excellent. It is by far the most clear and crisp display I've ever used.

So for those who may be sitting on the fence about trying the FP2141 I would say go for it. As long as you deal with a respectible vendor that won't hassle you about an RMA, take a chance on this display. If you're as fortunate as I was, you'll get an awesome monitor.

Just my 2 cents worth

 

[FacelessNobody]

Yeah man monitor #3 for me is absolutely perfect. What an ass-kicker this thing is I love it

 

[dscline]

Hello all. To those of you who have this monitor, I have a question, as well as a suggestion. First the suggestion: a couple have made comments about vertical lines (like the damper wires, only vertical). Have you seen the following note from the manual?:

Black vertical lines are visible on the screen:
? Thin vertical black lines on one or both sides of the screen. This minor condition is
caused by grille element overlap which can occur during shipping.
? Position an open white window over the affected area of the screen and maximize
the brightness and contrast controls. This will cause localized heating of the overlap
which will clear in a few minutes. Be sure to readjust the brightness and contrast
controls back to the normal viewing level after this procedure.

Maybe that will help some of you.

Now my questions. I am considering it's little brother, the 19" FP912SB (neither my wallet nor desk are large enough for the 22" model). The specs for both models don't list 1280x960 as an available resolution. I'm assuming that it would actually display this mode if the video card supported it, but can you confirm?

I have my choice narrowed down to this, and the Phillips 109P40. The Phillips has dual inputs, one of which is BNC (the 19" NEC doesn't share it's bigger brother's second input, and I am currently using two inputs on my current monitor). The Philips is also a little shallower (very important in my situation). But the NEC has slightly higher bandwidth (it can do 73hz at 1920x1440, while the Philips can only do 60hz. Both can do 85hz at 1600x1200). I also have a little more trust in NEC's name as far as picture quality goes. Does anyone have any experience with the prefesional series monitors by Philips?

Thanks!

 

[Muse]

My NEC FP2141SB has 1280 x 960 as an available resolution. It doesn't support 85 Hz at the highest resolution and is supposed to and I think that's a function of my video card, a BFG Asylum ti4200. I haven't seen any vertical lines, however that's an interesting quote from the manual. Is that the manual for my monitor? I don't know anything about the Philips monitors.