<<For the fetus to become a living breathing baby it obviously has to be born. That makes the question of abortion concerning it moot.>>
Numerous studies have indicated that a fetus in a mothers womb can still respond to outside stimulus such as sound, therefor IMO the fetus is a living human being.
Numerous studies have indicated that a fetus in a mothers womb can still respond to outside stimulus such as sound, therefor IMO the fetus is a living human being.
<< Numerous studies have indicated that a fetus in a mothers womb can still respond to outside stimulus such as sound, therefor IMO the fetus is a living human being. >>
While Blackhawk is correct, I think an important distinction that should be made is the age of the fetus. Can a 2 day old fetus respond to such stimuli? 2 weeks? 2 months? If you use stimulus response as a criteria, such distinctions should be made.
<<...If pro life views are based on religion then why are the religious more judgemental the God they profess to believe in - because they are human, with faults?...>>
kassy, I don't belong to any religion.
kassy, I don't belong to any religion.
Is anyone's life sugar and sunflowers, a fairytale with happy endings? Life has quite a bit of the overcoming obstacles aspect and a quite a small amount of S&S.
Should children who aren't going to be loved by their parents be aborted? That's ridiculous. What about children born into poverty, where heck they're going to have to fight to get by, should they not be given a chance (that one was me)? I have friends born into the families of millionaires whose parents don't give a care in the world to them, and the kids hate the parents. If your parents would not have always been the most loving, the most caring, not the best parents, would you rather have been aborted? Nobody's situation is perfect, where do we draw the line??
You come to the realization that there is no line to be drawn here, that people need to start taking responsibilities for their actions and face the realities of life. Granted, It's tougher to make good decisions and raise a child or give them to another family as an adoptee... Abortion is a slaughter of the innocents that usually ends up emotionally scarring the mother beyond repair, and no good froms it.
Should children who aren't going to be loved by their parents be aborted? That's ridiculous. What about children born into poverty, where heck they're going to have to fight to get by, should they not be given a chance (that one was me)? I have friends born into the families of millionaires whose parents don't give a care in the world to them, and the kids hate the parents. If your parents would not have always been the most loving, the most caring, not the best parents, would you rather have been aborted? Nobody's situation is perfect, where do we draw the line??
You come to the realization that there is no line to be drawn here, that people need to start taking responsibilities for their actions and face the realities of life. Granted, It's tougher to make good decisions and raise a child or give them to another family as an adoptee... Abortion is a slaughter of the innocents that usually ends up emotionally scarring the mother beyond repair, and no good froms it.
Cinderelmo steps up to the pot and begins to stir...
Can someone tell me why if a woman gets pregnant, the father loses all rights to tell the mother she cannot abort it (yet she can chose to dump her responsibility by aborting the baby), and if she keeps it the man has no rights to ever dump his responsibilities to it. I know I would be pretty pissed if I got some gal pregnant and she decided to abort MY child. By the same token I would again be pissed if I didn't want the kid, but then had to pay for it for the rest of my life. Men get the shaft sometimes.
/snowballs all around!!!
Can someone tell me why if a woman gets pregnant, the father loses all rights to tell the mother she cannot abort it (yet she can chose to dump her responsibility by aborting the baby), and if she keeps it the man has no rights to ever dump his responsibilities to it. I know I would be pretty pissed if I got some gal pregnant and she decided to abort MY child. By the same token I would again be pissed if I didn't want the kid, but then had to pay for it for the rest of my life. Men get the shaft sometimes.
/snowballs all around!!!
Here are my views. And a couple quotes.
for those who say the baby isn't 'viable', have you ever seen a sonogram of an abortion? You can see the 'non-viable fetus' retracting from the instruments of death and seeking self preservation. It wants to live Think about that.
A rational Case against Abortion
1. What is growing in the womb of the woman is alive.
...A. Even one celled creatures are alive.
...B. What is growing in the woman is more than a one celled creature.
2. The nature of the life is human.
...A. It is the product of human DNA, therefore it's nature is human.
...B. Because it is human in nature, if left to live, it will result in a human baby.
...C. Humans are humans not because they have a feet, hands, walk vertically, and speak, etc. They are humans because of their nature.
......1. A person born without arms and legs is still human.
......2. A person who cannot speak is still human.
......3. A person in a coma, helpless, unaware, unmoving, is human.
...D. What is growing in the womb does not have the nature of an animal, a bird, or a fish. It has human nature.
3. To abort the life, which is human in nature, is to kill that which is human in nature.
4. Therefore, abortion is killing a life which is human by nature.
Where, then, does the mother get the right to kill the human within her?
There is also much more. There is also the clear teaching of the Bible presented and an objections answered. The link is
here
I can't understand how people don't think it is morally wrong. But even more than that I can't understand how people who DO think it is morally wrong are not adamantly against it. I imagine you are adamantly against the morally wrong act of murdering your loved ones. Do you not realize it is the same morally wrong act.
Only covered up by "it's still in my body."
The below is for all who wonder what partial birth abortion is like. WARNING!!! IT MAY MAKE YOU THROW UP
"Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist reaches into the uterus, grabs the unborn baby's leg with forceps, and pulls the baby into the birth canal, except for the head, which is deliberately kept just inside the womb. (At this point in a partial-birth abortion, the baby is alive.) Then the abortionist jams scissors into the back of the baby's skull and spreads the tips of the scissors apart to enlarge the wound. After removing the scissors, a suction catheter is inserted into the skull and the baby's brains are sucked out. The collapsed head is then removed from the uterus."
And you know what. It is no different than abortion any other time.
for those who say the baby isn't 'viable', have you ever seen a sonogram of an abortion? You can see the 'non-viable fetus' retracting from the instruments of death and seeking self preservation. It wants to live Think about that.
A rational Case against Abortion
1. What is growing in the womb of the woman is alive.
...A. Even one celled creatures are alive.
...B. What is growing in the woman is more than a one celled creature.
2. The nature of the life is human.
...A. It is the product of human DNA, therefore it's nature is human.
...B. Because it is human in nature, if left to live, it will result in a human baby.
...C. Humans are humans not because they have a feet, hands, walk vertically, and speak, etc. They are humans because of their nature.
......1. A person born without arms and legs is still human.
......2. A person who cannot speak is still human.
......3. A person in a coma, helpless, unaware, unmoving, is human.
...D. What is growing in the womb does not have the nature of an animal, a bird, or a fish. It has human nature.
3. To abort the life, which is human in nature, is to kill that which is human in nature.
4. Therefore, abortion is killing a life which is human by nature.
Where, then, does the mother get the right to kill the human within her?
There is also much more. There is also the clear teaching of the Bible presented and an objections answered. The link is
here
I can't understand how people don't think it is morally wrong. But even more than that I can't understand how people who DO think it is morally wrong are not adamantly against it. I imagine you are adamantly against the morally wrong act of murdering your loved ones. Do you not realize it is the same morally wrong act.
Only covered up by "it's still in my body."
The below is for all who wonder what partial birth abortion is like. WARNING!!! IT MAY MAKE YOU THROW UP
"Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist reaches into the uterus, grabs the unborn baby's leg with forceps, and pulls the baby into the birth canal, except for the head, which is deliberately kept just inside the womb. (At this point in a partial-birth abortion, the baby is alive.) Then the abortionist jams scissors into the back of the baby's skull and spreads the tips of the scissors apart to enlarge the wound. After removing the scissors, a suction catheter is inserted into the skull and the baby's brains are sucked out. The collapsed head is then removed from the uterus."
And you know what. It is no different than abortion any other time.
One more time, since I posted this in a thread that was locked...
I don't care if you are pro-choice or pro-life. I only hope that you will join me in trying to reduce the need.
****************************************************************************
I still maintain that we need to stop sexualizing young girls and start teaching boys to be more responsible.
Every problem has a cause, or set of causes. Legal Band-Aids for or against abortion are not going to change much of anything.
Our time and energy will be better spent getting to the root of the problem. Anyway, that's what I'm trying to do, and what I will keep trying to do. If I have to start teaching a class to parents or to kids, then that is what I will do.
I am neither pro-life nor pro-choice.
I am pro-reduce-the-need.
I don't care if you are pro-choice or pro-life. I only hope that you will join me in trying to reduce the need.
****************************************************************************
I still maintain that we need to stop sexualizing young girls and start teaching boys to be more responsible.
Every problem has a cause, or set of causes. Legal Band-Aids for or against abortion are not going to change much of anything.
Our time and energy will be better spent getting to the root of the problem. Anyway, that's what I'm trying to do, and what I will keep trying to do. If I have to start teaching a class to parents or to kids, then that is what I will do.
I am neither pro-life nor pro-choice.
I am pro-reduce-the-need.
If its the womens right to choose crap, she must be choosing to have a kid if she chooses to have sex, not my fault some women gives out sex to feel a sense of comitment from a man
Adul
Elite Member
ha not to my concern, i beg your pardon. WTF u talkin about, my taxes are paying for this "slut" to kill her baby.. and if the man says no, she still can, whats up with that?
MustangSVT
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2000
- 11,554
- 12
- 81
OH MY GOD animals react to STIMULUS TOO! therefor they must be humans!!!!!
I am pro choice.
people that want no abortion shouldnt get abortion when the baby is in them, they should not force other ppl to do what they feel. Well, some argue that the baby does not have choice so they are fighting for the baby. That is such BS. so even when baby is born will they take care for it for rest of its life? if they can and will i guess they can make such demands but they DONT. reminds me of a phrase used in SIMPSONS, "OH PLEASE WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF CHILDREN~", yelled out when they were arguing something totally different.
I am pro choice.
people that want no abortion shouldnt get abortion when the baby is in them, they should not force other ppl to do what they feel. Well, some argue that the baby does not have choice so they are fighting for the baby. That is such BS. so even when baby is born will they take care for it for rest of its life? if they can and will i guess they can make such demands but they DONT. reminds me of a phrase used in SIMPSONS, "OH PLEASE WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF CHILDREN~", yelled out when they were arguing something totally different.
<<...Well, some argue that the baby does not have choice so they are fighting for the baby. That is such BS...>>
MustangSVT, if you disagree thats fine, there are many people who disagree with you.
MustangSVT, if you disagree thats fine, there are many people who disagree with you.
Our world isn't ready for pro-life yet. Later down the line maybe. I'm thinking near 2080. Maybe having everyone become more equal will help us all. Divisions of life styles will be nearly gone.
Uuuuuhm, who's body are we talking about? Yours or the woman's? Exactly, if it's not your body, you have no say whatsoever in her choice to have an abortion. If you feel that the fetus is a living human being... well guess what, she just killed a living human being. How tragic is that seeing as the baby does not develop life/death awareness until it is at least three years old and their brains usually aren't even a fourth of the way through development.
<< my taxes are paying for this "slut" to kill her baby >>
Who are you to call someone a slut for becoming pregnant!? Your ignorance is shown in two ways: 1) You argue that the fetus is a "living human being" as if the words "human being" are almighty, then you turn around and bring economics into a discussion about life. 2) No one but yourself can judge yourself so your relative accusation of her becoming a slut is childish and unfounded. You know nothing about that woman and you're already judging her.btw: Good point mustang. I'd bet not one person here who's arguing for pro-"life" would refuse to eating a big, nice, firm stake. Although now that I've said that, lots of people will say, "I've never eaten any meat in my life" or some bs like that heh. Yet I'd bet very little of them would even stop to think about what they're eating before they start munchin down.
<< my taxes are paying for this "slut" to kill her baby >>
Who are you to call someone a slut for becoming pregnant!? Your ignorance is shown in two ways: 1) You argue that the fetus is a "living human being" as if the words "human being" are almighty, then you turn around and bring economics into a discussion about life. 2) No one but yourself can judge yourself so your relative accusation of her becoming a slut is childish and unfounded. You know nothing about that woman and you're already judging her.btw: Good point mustang. I'd bet not one person here who's arguing for pro-"life" would refuse to eating a big, nice, firm stake. Although now that I've said that, lots of people will say, "I've never eaten any meat in my life" or some bs like that heh. Yet I'd bet very little of them would even stop to think about what they're eating before they start munchin down.
MustangSVT
Lifer
- Oct 7, 2000
- 11,554
- 12
- 81
Blackhawk2, YES YES THAT"S what im trying to say, we all have different oppinions so there should not be a SINGLE rule that rules on all of our opinions. i couldnt have said itbetter, thanx blackhawk2.
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