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Pro guns people in the USA

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You know whats crappy, a civilian population that has no means to defend itself.

Germany steamrolled Poland, then Russia steamrolled them the opposite direction a couple of years later.

Unarmed jews were rounded up and slaughtered by the millions by both germany and russia.

Just for reference...

Germany attacked on September 1st
USSR attacked September 17th

Poland was defeated on October 6th by two of the largest armies in the world at the time, combined, after her allies stood by and did nothing.
 
You have to consider the fundamental differences between a nation having two armies invade it simultaneously, one from the west (Germany) and one from the east (Soviets) and these armies both being prepared to do incredibly brutal things to achieve their ends vs. what people are talking about.

When people talk about private gun ownership being a bulwark against tyranny in the USA, they aren't talking about simply some sort of direct contest of who has the superior firepower between citizenry and US armed forces, we're all very aware of the answer to that question.

There are other factors, like hesitation and uncertainty on the part of soldiers asked to attack their own people on their own soil, and the insurgency dynamic. The need for the powers that be to maintain the will to do what they're doing as it gets bloodier and bloodier, and if such a government at that point cared about any segment of the population's support for their actions (if they were only targeting certain portions of the population) that support drying up is another consideration.

So again, it's not just red coats and blue coats line up on opposite sides of the field and may the side with better guns win.

And also, even if we were to concede that such a scenario (US government trying to kill a crap ton of it's own people) was super far-fetched, I still believe that it is positive for politicians who are forming policies related to our civil liberties and our freedoms to have such a scenario as a possibility in the back of their mind, even if they aren't aware it's there. The desire to avoid such a bloody affair can reign in abuse of power. Disarming the populace emboldens abuse of power by those who wield it, in many if not all cases.

I did consider everything. That's why I questioned that Poland is a lesson in what could happen when a pop is disarmed. Lot's of posters kept citing learning history so I did.
The example of the massacre a couple pages back was mostly military and police who also were armed when they were arrested.
 
I wouldn't go patting your self on the back too hard. Tea partiers are only marginally smarter than euro trolls. Any time a person believes in belief, rather than fact, they delude themselves.

You are a special retard. You're special because you don't realize you are severely retarded.

You are special because you've gone beyond full retard, retard.
 
Ok, back to the heart of the issue. Laws preventing private gun ownership do nothing to stop violent crime. This is proven from a thousand different statistics from countries around the world. Therefore, there is no valid reason to seek to prevent private gun ownership. If you want my guns, come and try to get them.
Discussion ended.
 
Laws preventing private gun ownership do nothing to stop violent crime.

True but even engaging on that field of battle with gun control proponents is tricky because it can just turn into a battle of the published studies. It misses the point, the right to bear arms and defend one's life, property, family, nation, etc need to be regarded as a right which exist in a vacuum just like free speech should be regarded.

Not connected to or dependent on what problems they do or do not cause in society. They are inalienable rights, end of story.

My breathing air creates CO2 which may harm the environment, but that is not a consideration which I can allow to be factored in by myself or anyone else. Even talking about it is a huge red flag to me that the other side of the argument is already very far down a disturbing road of thought.
 
I'm going to break this down from Lepton87's viewpoint for people who can't see it.

If you are so good at translating translate that. Nie bede rozmawiac z takimi troglodytami jak ty. Nie masz co robic w tej swojej piwnicy tylko analizowac kazdy moj post? Nie obchodzi mnie co o mnie mysli taka tepa istota jak ty. To co robisz nie jest smieszne, nie jest nawet obrazliwe, jest po prostu zalosne tak jak ty.
 
True but even engaging on that field of battle with gun control proponents is tricky because it can just turn into a battle of the published studies. It misses the point, the right to bear arms and defend one's life, property, family, nation, etc need to be regarded as a right which exist in a vacuum just like free speech should be regarded.

Not connected to or dependent on what problems they do or do not cause in society. They are inalienable rights, end of story.

My breathing air creates CO2 which may harm the environment, but that is not a consideration which I can allow to be factored in by myself or anyone else. Even talking about it is a huge red flag to me that the other side of the argument is already very far down a disturbing road of thought.

I don't see it that way. Actually, quite the opposite. If gun control actually was effective in controlling violent crime, then we would have to fall back on arguing for our basic rights to defend ourselves. But we don't have to do that because the gun grabbers got nothing. Literally, nothing.
Even less than nothing, because gun control laws do nothing to stop private gun ownership.
Inherent or inalienable rights cannot be taken away, only surrendered.
 
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Lepton87.

I'm not sure how much USA TV you get in Poland, but if you really want to know the reason. Go to the pirate bay or something and download the TV show "The First 48." Your answer is there.
 
Me thinks he never learned the American Revolution.

Ignorance is no excuse for stupidity.

This is what we are fighting. Extremely stupid people. It's to the point that I won't even talk to folks who are this ignorant, it's like talking to a retard. You try to answer their stupidity, but they are still dumb. So fucking dumb.

Much retard. So dumb. Very retard.

"The problem with our liberal friends isn't that they are ignorant. It is that they know so much that isn't so." -Ronald Regan
 
Oh well, it's time to change the forum. I don't want to deal with such people.

besides


Also

Thread-crapping - check
Thread-derailment - check
off-topic posting - check
trolling - check
Where does it mention that using obscene language is allowed, too?

You are a fucking idiot.
 
I don't why people in the US ignore statistics from around the world where access to guns is a lot more restricted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate For example the US has 40 times more deaths related to guns then the UK or Poland or 351 times more then hong-kong. Widespread access to guns only increases crime rates. It's a false sense of safety. It doesn't matter that you have a gun, because every common thug has it too. If I was a criminal and knew that about everybody owns a gun I would shoot and then rob the body instead of scaring the victim with a gun and force him to give his stuff away. What's your argument? ps. please refrain from posting if you want to make ad hominem attacks or otherwise can't behave yourself.
the State has a lot more firepower than individuals do and that doesnt make us better off. a voluntary democratic govt can protect liberty and security with guns, but the State cannot and you are forgetting that liberty and security are not guaranteed no matter how big the State gets.

basically, you're arguing for guns being used to ban guns.
 
Eurotards and libtards:

Pro socialized healthcare
Pro gun control
Pro handout-systems
Pro taxation

Seriously, you two are identical on every main issue. This is like the whole goth isn't at all emo spiel.
 
Eurotards and libtards:

Pro socialized healthcare
Pro gun control
Pro handout-systems
Pro taxation

Seriously, you two are identical on every main issue. This is like the whole goth isn't at all emo spiel.

Conservatards: bible thumping poor white trash that fap to talk radio, believe Sarah Palin is the hottest woman ever, and think that being gay is the only sin in the bible.

Generalizing is fun!!

Edit: read the thread next time, I am strongly pro gun rights.
 
Except mine aren't generalizations. The us liberal policy just about perfectly matches eurotard idealism

No, it doesn't. Or if you really want to go down this road, I suppose I could easily dig up 4 broad examples to show that US conservatives are just like the Nazis.
Let's see:
Nationalist? Check
Anti-gay? Check
Scapegoat the poor? Check
Antisemitic? If you count Stormfront, check

OMG, this is easy 🙄

Edit: and once again, I am strongly pro gun rights.
 
No, it doesn't. Or if you really want to go down this road, I suppose I could easily dig up 4 broad examples to show that US conservatives are just like the Nazis.
Let's see:
Nationalist? Check
Anti-gay? Check
Scapegoat the poor? Check
Antisemitic? If you count Stormfront, check

OMG, this is easy 🙄

Edit: and once again, I am strongly pro gun rights.


I am talking about the core fundamentals of the US liberal policy, the very basis for the modern progressive... There are not fringe examples, this is what your group supports, whether YOU support each one or not does not change the fact that these are the issues where your politicians have drawn clear lines on what they push:


Pro socialized healthcare
Pro gun control
Pro handout-systems
Pro taxation
 
I don't why people in the US ignore statistics from around the world where access to guns is a lot more restricted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

For example the US has 40 times more deaths related to guns then the UK or Poland or 351 times more then hong-kong. Widespread access to guns only increases crime rates. It's a false sense of safety. .


If access to firearms increases the crime rate, then why is it that the crime rate has actually gone down while gun ownership rates have gone up? The U.S is an outlier on so many statistics I don't see how you can possibly conclude that Gun ownership causes violent crime. Guns don't cause crime, having a gun dose not make one rob a bank.
 
I am talking about the core fundamentals of the US liberal policy, the very basis for the modern progressive... There are not fringe examples, this is what your group supports, whether YOU support each one or not does not change the fact that these are the issues where your politicians have drawn clear lines on what they push:


Pro socialized healthcare
Pro gun control
Pro handout-systems
Pro taxation

So am I.

Pro nationalism
Pro military (defense)
Anti immigration
Pro corporate welfare
Pro wealth/elite
Pro traditionalist culture (aka family values)

Are these not core conservative positions?

Question: what's your stance on the pledge of allegiance?
 
So am I.

Pro nationalism
Pro military (defense)
Anti immigration
Pro corporate welfare
Pro wealth/elite
Pro traditionalist culture (aka family values)

Are these not core conservative positions?

Question: what's your stance on the pledge of allegiance?

Except to win, you need to show how US liberal policies are not the same as European socialist policies.
 
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