Privilege

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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
...

I grew up in a post-civil rights movement America where egalitarian ideals were heavily promoted and a notion of "color blindness" was promoted. In reality what happened was, despite trying hard to meet those ideals, I was given no vocabulary and freedom to talk about the obvious colored-white dynamics or conflicts within myself with safety. And so I did what most people in my position do. Signal and advocate for equality yet live my life in relative isolation. I'm glad my career has taken me to places to challenge myself. I probably wouldn't have done so if not for that.

Do you mind expanding on that? I have tried reading it multiple times but I don't feel confident I have gotten the meaning of it.

I think I get the 2nd part, which is saying that you like equality, yet you stayed in a "place" where people were like you.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
"Privilege" is a useful mental reminder for those with it trying to remind themselves to use Rawlsian "veil of ignorance" techniques to consider other perspectives on issues, particularly ones where the others life experience may be far different than your own. Having someone use charges of "privilege" like a weapon is a crutch used by weak people to excuse away their own failings and should get the same reception as someone saying "I'm only a failure because Mom and Dad loved you more as the favorite child." Even if it's true it just makes you look and think like someone who isn't taking full accountability for themselves.

That being said the people who would be best served to use a "privilege" mindset are folks like Donald Trump. And they're the very least likely to use it and will probably go out of their way to be an even bigger douche if it were suggested to them to consider their privileges.
 
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Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
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I just take issue with it being called a privilege to try and guilt those accused of having it when in fact it is actually a bias against those who do not. "White privilege" exempts you for example from getting pulled over for obstructed view for having that Christmas tree air freshener hanging from your mirror? Yes I actually personally know a cop who has admitted doing this. That not privilege! That is bias! That is somewhat of a simplification but it is on point. Calling a bias against a group of people a "privilege" of those not subject to the bias is just trying to guilt innocent people as a means of control.
Guilt them in to doing right by their fellow humans. To stand up and help their marginalized voices be heard. How is that so disruptive to your sense of social justice? Has it occurred to you that the privileged likely need a bias against them for a while to kick their asses in to action? In to being more socially responsible?
 
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Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
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Aw shit this reminds me of a story that got published in the Huffington Post / South Africa last year. The blogger (who was poe) proposed taking the right to vote away from white men for 20 years due to their history of white privilege. It was eventually pulled. Caused a bit of a ruckus at the time.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.za/sh...e-to-deny-white-men-the-franchise_a_22036640/
LOL! I don't think it would hurt society one bit if white men lost the right to vote for 20 years.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,821
9,036
136
I enjoy the privilege of isolation--a friendly frozen tundra to the north, vast ocean boundaries on our Eastern and Western borders, and a slightly porous but well-defended border to the South.

I enjoy the privilege of being oblivious to the threat of mortar rockets raining down on my head, or some suicidal maniac blowing themselves up (and 50 other people) at the mall. I only have to look out for AR-15s in the hands of losers...oops..."the mentally ill".
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,017
2,861
136
Do you mind expanding on that? I have tried reading it multiple times but I don't feel confident I have gotten the meaning of it.

I think I get the 2nd part, which is saying that you like equality, yet you stayed in a "place" where people were like you.

I've often been in situations where I noticed race-related feelings or where my thoughts around an interaction with a person went to race. E.g. did I find that person intimidating because they were black? Or group situations where race comes up and I thought I might have something valuable to add but feared it would be interpreted as racist. Or perhaps was racist to some degree or at least a bit naive. But the anxiety and lack of confidence in the words that came to my head made me just shut up about it. But that's bad. Because if I was thinking about race, so was everyone else. It was definitely a thing that was there, and out of fear of getting it wrong nothing was said. So real issues became suppressed. And the opportunity to navigate whether my feelings were about race or whether they were about a particular person or situation unrelated to race was lost. Often people with these conflicts are genuinely interested in equality and seize opportunity to promote equality when that promotion doesn't really put race dynamics squarely in play. For example, advocating liberal political policy. Or joining marches or civil rights movements that are sufficiently diverse. Or calling out racists. Or damning police for targeting black people. Any way to comfortably demonstrate that it's wrong to be racist, sign up. Etc.
 
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Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
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Would you give up the right to vote without a fight or would you go full civil war?
LOL! Obviously it's not possible. That doesn't change my opinion that society would likely benefit from white men having to shut up for 20 years. It'll give the worst of them a chance to die off while society teaches the rest of them how to get their misplaced masculinity, greed, preferred lack of emotional connectivity and blood lust under control.
 
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IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,072
26,966
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LOL! Obviously it's not possible. That doesn't change my opinion that society would likely benefit from white men having to shut up for 20 years. It'll give the worst of them a chance to die off while society teaches the rest of them how to get their misplaced masculinity, greed, preferred lack of emotional connectivity and blood lust under control.
If I misplaced my masculinity my wife would kill me.
 
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realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I've often been in situations where I noticed race-related feelings or where my thoughts around an interaction with a person went to race. E.g. did I find that person intimidating because they were black? Or group situations where race comes up and I thought I might have something valuable to add but feared it would be interpreted as racist. Or perhaps was racist to some degree or at least a bit naive. But the anxiety and lack of confidence in the words that came to my head made me just shut up about it. But that's bad. Because if I was thinking about race, so was everyone else. It was definitely a thing that was there, and out of fear of getting it wrong nothing was said. So real issues became suppressed. And the opportunity to navigate whether my feelings were about race or whether they were about a particular person or situation unrelated to race was lost. Often people with these conflicts are genuinely interested in equality and seize opportunity to promote equality when that promotion doesn't really put race dynamics squarely in play. For example, advocating liberal political policy. Or joining marches or civil rights movements that are sufficiently diverse. Or calling out racists. Or damning police for targeting black people. Any way to comfortably demonstrate that it's wrong to be racist, sign up. Etc.

So was it that you were afraid to engage in discussion unless it was simply to signal the "correct" position because you were afraid to be in the "wrong" position, thus you avoided things that were complex?
 
Nov 30, 2006
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Would you give up the right to vote without a fight or would you go full civil war?
I'd climb up a tree, cut the soles off my shoes, and learn to play the flute...that's what I'd do. Pawns like me don't have much of a stomach for war and dying over such things. But it's a shame that there are monsters in this world who are so casual and flippant about wanting to take my vote away. They don't see their ugliness...and likely never will.
 
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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,017
2,861
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So was it that you were afraid to engage in discussion unless it was simply to signal the "correct" position because you were afraid to be in the "wrong" position, thus you avoided things that were complex?

To some degree, but that's highlighting fear of being wrong or social repercussion. Certainly that's present, but even if I wanted I really wasn't taught how to recognize my feelings and how to express them in language that allowed me to own how I felt whether it was accepted or not. No one modeled those discussions. When race came up it was either idealized equality strances or it was harsh protective/prejudiced. Part of it was my general community was virtually homogenous. I was able to avoid confronting my feelings and my biases all my life, and still can and to some degree do. But being able to do that is privilege. And I've certainly benefited from it without appreciating it as such.
 
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child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
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LOL! Obviously it's not possible. That doesn't change my opinion that society would likely benefit from white men having to shut up for 20 years. It'll give the worst of them a chance to die off while society teaches the rest of them how to get their misplaced masculinity, greed, preferred lack of emotional connectivity and blood lust under control.

I knew this thread would draw out at least one disgusting racist.

Welcome!
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
I knew this thread would draw out at least one disgusting racist.

Welcome!
Also... Are white men a race onto themselves? Geez, seems like a lonely way to die out. *sniffle* they'll be missed but hey they had a good (often cruel) run wouldn'cha agree?
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
We're all racist. Can you say more about why this particular post needed calling out?
My best guess would be insecurity. I did after all have the audacity to imagine a society where white men couldn't vote for 20 years. I'm clearly a dick. ......... Yeah, I'm gonna do it.... Just to get his goat.... Wait for it....

.... At least I don't have one! Boom! Nailed it!
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,017
2,861
136
My best guess would be insecurity. I did after all have the audacity to imagine a society where white men couldn't vote for 20 years. I'm clearly a dick. ......... Yeah, I'm gonna do it.... Just to get his goat.... Wait for it....

.... At least I don't have one! Boom! Nailed it!

Yeah but who cares? We all get so high and mighty when race and sex come up. None of us have it right and really there's no way to get it right anyway. Wish we could all be real. I know you can handle a challenge. But on the back of it is probably some valid hostility that would be good to actually put out there in a useful way.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Yeah but who cares? We all get so high and mighty when race and sex come up. None of us have it right and really there's no way to get it right anyway. Wish we could all be real. I know you can handle a challenge. But on the back of it is probably some valid hostility that would be good to actually put out there in a useful way.
What he didn't ask me is if given the opportunity if I would take white men's vote away. I would not.

My hostility is toward Trumpublicans. Far too many of them are very hateful, profoundly insecure white men. That makes me sad. Still wouldn't take their vote away but I do judge them.