Private Companies Cannot Refuse Service

[Pulsar]

I'm not sure how I feel about this.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014...ing-cakes-undergo-sensitivity-training-after/

On one hand, I'm all for gay marraige etc. On the other hand, it's their company. Why can't they choose who to serve?

I know there are a lot of parallels. I'm sure the quesiton of "what if they said no because they were black?" is going to come up. But this is fairly major religious tenent. I'm certainly not pro-religion, but I do respect people's religion.

I guess it's the right decision, but I'm hesitant to say I like it. It feels a lot like big brother.

 

[Thebobo]

I agree with you.

He decided to stop making wedding cakes.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/06/02/No-more-wedding-cakes-for-Colorado-bakery

 

[nehalem256]

Phillips will also be required to submit quarterly reports to the commission to confirm that he has not turned away customers based on their sexual orientation.

Except liberals say that marriage is just a contract between 2 people. So he wasn't discriminating based on sexual orientation. And in fact would have no way of knowing the sexual orientation of his customers unless they decided to wave in his face.

 

[nehalem256]

Meanwhile, the bullying tactics of the militant gay rights community have not hampered the bakery’s bottom line. They’ve gotten so much business from the sales of cookies and brownies, they’ve temporarily stopped making wedding cakes.

:thumbsup:

 

[Moonbeam]

People of faith, they call themselves, when really they are only filthy bigots. You are entitled to be a filthy bigot if you want, but you can't practice bigotry and call it faith and get away wit it in a rational secular society. Conservatives, in particular, should know there is a price you pay for being irresponsible. We also don't let sexual perverts , the counterpart to these religious perverts, live around schools. When bigots pay the price of their bigotry, it won't be too long and that bigotry will come to an end.

 

[Cozarkian]

This is a little tougher than straight-up discrimination. Unless I missed something, he doesn't refuse to sell cookies or other baked goods to gay people, so he isn't discriminating against gays as a whole in all circumstances, just where it conflicts with his religious belief concerning marriage.

Thus, I think more comparable analogies would be someone who refuses to make wedding cakes because he thinks the couple are "too young to get married," or "on their second marriage and I don't believe in divorce" or maybe he knows one of them and doesn't approve of their choice of spouse.

 

[KK]

I know how I feel about it. Its bullshit and overstepping of the governments role. Imagine that, the stupid ass government doing whatever the fuck they want without regard for what this country was founded on.

 

[fskimospy]

I know how I feel about it. Its bullshit and overstepping of the governments role. Imagine that, the stupid ass government doing whatever the fuck they want without regard for what this country was founded on.

I know! It was wrong to make it so black people had to be able to eat in the same restaurants as whites.

 

[KK]

I know! It was wrong to make it so black people had to be able to eat in the same restaurants as whites.

Let the public decide the fate. You are one of the ones that want the government to tell you how to put on your pants. You are whats wrong with America.

 

[Retro Rob]

Gays are stupid.

Why would you want a cake from someone who was just forced to make one for you?

Eh, he can stop selling wedding cakes. There is a very good bakery near where I used to live that has never been in the wedding cake business and is doing quite well and has been open for years.

Beer and Wine stores do quite well, so do stores that don't sell cigarettes.

 

[Paul98]

Good to see, shouldn't be able to refuse service based on sexual orientation.

 

[1prophet]

I know! It was wrong to make it so black people had to be able to eat in the same restaurants as whites.

False equivalence.

He didn't refuse them service, only the one request for a same sex cake which he didn't make for anyone,

He offered to make them any other baked item they wanted that he presently sold to everyone else.

The controversy started in 2012 when a gay couple asked Phillips to make their wedding cake. Phillips politely declined, saying he could not make a cake promoting a same-sex ceremony because of his faith. He offered to make them any other baked item they wanted.


Charlie Craig and David Mullins filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Commission alleging they were discriminated against because of their sexual orientation. For the record, same-sex marriage is against the law in Colorado.

He probably wouldn't make a Satanic wedding cake either, should he then be told he is discriminating based on religion which is also illegal?

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I don't tolerate discrimination or verbal abuse in my workplace but, the State getting involved? Fuck Colorado, I'd move my bakery.

 

[shira]

Except liberals say that marriage is just a contract between 2 people. So he wasn't discriminating based on sexual orientation. And in fact would have no way of knowing the sexual orientation of his customers unless they decided to wave in his face.

Like icing that showed two men embracing? Yeah, that's pretty outrageous, showing the betrothed embracing on a wedding cake.

 

[shira]

This is a little tougher than straight-up discrimination. Unless I missed something, he doesn't refuse to sell cookies or other baked goods to gay people, so he isn't discriminating against gays as a whole in all circumstances, just where it conflicts with his religious belief concerning marriage.

Thus, I think more comparable analogies would be someone who refuses to make wedding cakes because he thinks the couple are "too young to get married," or "on their second marriage and I don't believe in divorce" or maybe he knows one of them and doesn't approve of their choice of spouse.

I doubt very much that the bakery has any way of telling whether the purchaser of cookies is gay. Contrast that with a wedding cake, which is specified in advance and could easily have the names of the betrothed ("Congratulations, "Patrick and Edward") or icing that depicts the couple holding hands. Buying cookies just involves walking in the door and saying "I'll take eight of those."

So I doubt very much that we can conclude much from the baker's failure to discriminate during cookie sales.

 

[Paul98]

False equivalence.

He didn't refuse them service, only the one request for a same sex cake which he didn't make for anyone,

exactly the problem

 

[shira]

I don't tolerate discrimination or verbal abuse in my workplace but, the State getting involved? Fuck Colorado, I'd move my bakery.

And would you "tolerate" it if private companies refused to hire you solely because of your sexual orientation? Would you say, "Fuck Colorado" if the state stepped in and protected your right to be judged solely on your ability to perform the required tasks?

 

[shira]

False equivalence.

He didn't refuse them service, only the one request for a same sex cake which he didn't make for anyone,

He offered to make them any other baked item they wanted that he presently sold to everyone else.





He probably wouldn't make a Satanic wedding cake either, should he then be told he is discriminating based on religion which is also illegal?

Absolutely!, unless the text or imagery requested on the "Satanic cake" is "patently offensive to community standards (for example, an icing statue of an erect penis receiving fellatio from the devil)."

And the fact that you raise this example - of a Satanic cake - as something you apparently feel is so obviously outrageous that refusing service is a slam dunk just demonstrates how clueless you are about freedom of religion and equal protection under the law.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

And would you "tolerate" it if private companies refused to hire you solely because of your sexual orientation? Would you say, "Fuck Colorado" if the state stepped in and protected your right to be judged solely on your ability to perform the required tasks?

I wouldn't want to work for a company that discriminated against me for my sexual orientation so, I don't need the States protection. The problem with turning over social issues to the government is it allows companies to skirt the intent of the law by following the letter of the law. Gaming the system is corporate sop.

 

[nehalem256]

I doubt very much that the bakery has any way of telling whether the purchaser of cookies is gay. Contrast that with a wedding cake, which is specified in advance and could easily have the names of the betrothed ("Congratulations, "Patrick and Edward") or icing that depicts the couple holding hands. Buying cookies just involves walking in the door and saying "I'll take eight of those."

So I doubt very much that we can conclude much from the baker's failure to discriminate during cookie sales.

And if say one of the couple's straight mom had come in and requested a "Patrick and Edward" wedding cake he would have equally refused service. Despite the fact that she was straight.

Seems pretty clear he isn't refusing service based on the sexual orientation of his customer to me.

 

[himkhan]

I know how I feel about it. Its bullshit and overstepping of the governments role. Imagine that, the stupid ass government doing whatever the fuck they want without regard for what this country was founded on.

The country was founded on bigotry? Don't remember that part. If you are trying to claim the country was founded on allowing people to use their religion to discriminate then you might want to go back to school.

 

[himkhan]

And if say one of the couple's straight mom had come in and requested a "Patrick and Edward" wedding cake he would have equally refused service. Despite the fact that she was straight.

Seems pretty clear he isn't refusing service based on the sexual orientation of his customer to me.

Well that's because you're seem to be a gay misandrist who wants to be able to discriminate with impunity. Why is it then the courts never have and never will agree with you? Not even if the SCOTUS were loaded with all GOP judges would they ever rule any differently. So who really has the problem here?

Is this "private business" on a pubic road? Paid for by straight and gay tax money? Does this "private business" take tax breaks every chance they can from both the State and Federal? Do they have lights outside their store that illuminate their business at night paid for by gay and straight money? Does the road that leads to their store get cleared of snow by plows paid for by straight and gay tax dollars?

There are hundreds of other questions that can be asked and if ANY of them are answered YES.. they don't own a private business nor do they get to pick and choose their customers by denying service to anyone based on their sexual orientation.

If they want to be bigots they can sell cakes and cookies door to door where they are free to pick and chose their customer base and stay away from the houses with rainbow colored lawns.

 

[nehalem256]

Well that's because you're seem to be a gay misandrist who wants to be able to discriminate with impunity. Why is it then the courts never have and never will agree with you? Not even if the SCOTUS were loaded with all GOP judges would they ever rule any differently. So who really has the problem here?

Is this "private business" on a pubic road? Paid for by straight and gay tax money? Does this "private business" take tax breaks every chance they can from both the State and Federal? Do they have lights outside their store that illuminate their business at night paid for by gay and straight money? Does the road that leads to their store get cleared of snow by plows paid for by straight and gay tax dollars?

There are hundreds of other questions that can be asked and if ANY of them are answered YES.. they don't own a private business nor do they get to pick and choose their customers by denying service to anyone based on their sexual orientation.

If they want to be bigots they can sell cakes and cookies door to door where they are free to pick and chose their customer base and stay away from the houses with rainbow colored lawns.

As I clearly explained they didn't deny service based on sexual orientation dumbass.

If their straight mother had come in to by a same-sex wedding cake for them she would have been denied.

If they had come into buy an opposite-sex wedding cake for one of their friends they would have received it.

 

[mrjminer]

Load of bullshit. He should be able to do whatever he wants with his business. Easy solution for this guy: 100% down and no refunds on wedding cakes, then make their cakes taste like shit.

 

[SlowSpyder]

His lawyer said this about the reporting:

We consider this reporting to be aimed at rehabilitating Jack so that he has the right thoughts

Certainly the christian guy doesn't care for being indoctrinated and taught how to think.