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printer overview for newbie

M

markk

Member
did searches and read up for the last hour...still need help on basics
I really only need black ink ,will use very infrequently
but if the tv commercials are accurate color is just as affordable.

looking for a digital camera ( maybe that panasonic 12x optical lens) AND a multifunction printer/scanner/copier /fax ,I was told they are available for around $100, there is a HOT deals listing BUT Damn if I can find it.


laser printers don't clog , injet do- with infrequent use? AND bubble jet- even still sold?? OR other

. is there a easy fix to restore ink flow OR is there a third type design that will provide decent service?
... Is bubble jet still worth considering OR they clog?

.dedicated scanner or dedicated printer may be higher resolution - but again I only see a need for utilitarian B&W type copies .

there is is the issue of print heads getting replaced with cart - a nice idea/feature- but not employed in the Cannon series so well liked


Obviously I am unfamilar with the hardware and seek suggestions for basic multifunction unit of ANY design- non clogging or easy to restore ink flow in very infrequent use.


any basic info or links , you think of - have at it
-------------------------
thanks to you
 
Hey Markk,

Although I am no expert by any means, I have some experience.
I've tried all the jet's; jet this, jet that. And they are basically a pain and expensive. True you can buy these do-it-yourself kits, but I walked around with the blue hands for days afterward. Now it seems there are a lot of places that do this.
I'll never go back.
About 3 yr's ago I found a refurb'd HP Laser Jet 4ML, which is a PostScript printer.
Other than replacing toner (and even that you don't do nearly as much as ink), this thing has workded flawlessly.
It doesn't have the greates DPI, but it's suitable for me.
I will buy a color laser when they get into my price range.

Never, never, never again will I touch a jet anything.

So I would suggest any combo type that had a laser printer.

Just my 2 cents.

SkipE
 
Best bang for the buck is a Canon i560 from Sams or Costco. $79 inc. USB cable.

They don't clog, print excellent pictures and text. You can refill cartridges easily or buy generics for less than $2.
places like monsterinkjets.com, megatoners or tylermartin.com.

Cheap lasers are fine if you don't want color. Another downside to lasers is that
the toner absorbs water in a humid environment so you need to leave them in an airconditioned environment or live in a less humid place than say Florida and the gulf states.
 
TO SkipE, I hear what you said load and clear. I was tending to lean toward laser also, yet in a multifunction device MFD - seems the majority ( like all) are inkjet. anyone know a basic black & W MFD laser unit ? for cheap or hot deal?
 
Lets see, you want a digital camera and a Black and White printer. I guess you don't care about the nice color pictures.

Why does this not make sense?

Canon makes a nice multifunction MP730. Unfortunately its around $275.Uses the same carts as the i560.

For $149 you can get a Canon Multi that uses BCI-24 carts which can be found cheaply as generics.
 
A digital camera and a black & white laser printer makes a lot of sense to me. Inkjets do NOT produce decent prints of color photographs anyway. (At least they don't produce good prints by my standards. The one exception, and only partial at that, is the dye sublimation printer. I have two of those, but they are another ballgame altogether.) I keep digital images on digital media for viewing. I mostly use printers for producing text output. Laser printers produce cleaner, more durable output. Output that doesn't smear when it's humid, for instance. I do have a couple of inkjet printers and a color laser printer, but I use them only when I need color diagram or report prints. The color laser does a better job for that type of output, too.

Besides, inkjet printer operating costs for heavy printing are ridiculous. A laser printer (even a color one) will pay for the difference in initial purchase prices by providing much lower operating costs. As far as getting third party ink and refilling -- for photographs? Please.

Ernie
 
OK OK , I only want to use the printer for paper work transfer and digital camera is for e-transfer of digital images
I need no paper hard copy of images , if the best choice of machine is a color photo cabable machine of course I would consider it . But I only need the B& W function in reality
 
RE:"Inkjets do NOT produce decent prints of color photographs anyway."

You must be way out of touch. Latest generation inkjets produce fantasic prints when the right paper is used.
Better than dye sub.

When's the last time you looked into an inkjet?
 
photo quality aside,
it seems the lack of a multifunction laser machine would make the
$146 HP 1012 ($60 toner cart) flat bedprinter combined with ?some scanner? a suitable
solution compromise- provided
printers ALL function as copiers as well?
 
Heh. I'm not out of touch at all. I just know what I like, and the best inkjet output with >$1.00 per page paper and a variety the "best" inks just leaves me cold. I work with multi-million dollar imaging systems used in medicine and astronomy, so my distaste for inkjet output probably has a lot to do with the types of images I'm viewing.

To each his own. You seemed to be implying that it was silly to buy a digital camera and a b&w laser printer. I was pointing out that some people, like me for instance, wouldn't want hard copy output for images taken with the camera. Some of us just use printers for printing (mostly) text documents.

Inkjet has come a long way, but it's ability to produce photographs is still not without issues for those of us who are really fussy. And I have never seen any automatic hardcopy output device that would match one of these top end dye sublimation printers -- when they are properly calibrated.

Ernie
 
to 8ballcoupe, since you mention them ( sublimation printers) and I never heard of it AND you say it is a whole "other ballgame" could you elaborate on them
Or am I missing the point and "sublimation is synonomous to laser?
 
RE:"and the best inkjet output with >$1.00 per page paper and a variety the "best" inks just leaves me cold"

You can get 100 sheets of epson glossy paper at Costco for $19.95.
Or get Canon pro paper.

Use a Canon i560, i860 or better yet a Canon i960 set at best quality and you will be stunned by the results.

The reason I questioned the recency of your experience with inkjets is that just a few years ago you would have been right on the money.
 
I might have stated that more clearly to indicate that I was talking about a MUCH more costly option. We own two Kodak dye sublimation printers. If I remember correctly the cheaper one cost us over $6,000. Prints from these machines cost about $2.00 apiece for 8x10 output. That's actually not much more cost per print than a typical Epson higher end inkjet printer using their special papers. There is, however, a world of difference in the output quality. No one would think that the output from the Epson actually came from a professional darkroom. The dye sub output will fool you every time.

That's why I said that I would generally prefer to keep digital images on digital media (and display them on monitors). It just costs too much to print out decent prints of personal pictures. The professional level dye sub systems I use are for printing out test images from very expensive medical and astronomy imaging systems.

I just don't connect personal photography and low end printers in my noggin. If I care enough about the pic to keep it, it gets saved to CD or DVD. I don't know if any of the less costly dye sub printers like the Kodak 8500 would please me or not. They're available for under $1,000. Apls makes some for around $500 that have, in my personal experience, produced rather varied output quality.

Ernie
 
I'll weigh in.

I've had an HP Laserjet 4P since 1994. The wife used it to print word documents. When color came out, we didn't really use the printer, it just sat around. Now the kid is doing book reports and I decided to revive the printer. Bought a new toner cartridge from Office Depot for $90, and it's like brand new again. Before I bought the cartridge, I went on Ebay looking for the cheap ones, and they we're $30, but I decided I wanted the real thing from HP.
Now, here's the kicker. People are selling the printer for only $50, some start at $20 with the bare printer (no cables, no cartridge). Go on Ebay and type in Laserjet 4P and the listings will come up. And the thing about this printer, is the cartridge is the print engine. All the major parts are in there. Yes, it will cost you about $30 to ship it, but wow, what a deal, and it really is a great printer for black and white. A toner cartridge prints about 3000 pages, and it's sharp.
 
My reference to high end paper that costs $1.00 per sheet was a reference to professional supplies (both OEM and third party) that I've tried with some of the better inkjet printers on the market.

Use a Canon i560, i860 or better yet a Canon i960 set at best quality and you will be stunned by the results.
Click to expand...

I've seen the Canon output, too. It's nice. But I may be harder than average to stun. 😉

I guess we'll both just have to understand that we see it differently.

The reason I questioned the recency of your experience with inkjets is that just a few years ago you would have been right on the money.
Click to expand...

I think I'm right on the money (for my needs, purposes and tastes) as of the present.

Ernie
 
Originally posted by: 8ballcoupe
My reference to high end paper that costs $1.00 per sheet was a reference to professional supplies (both OEM and third party) that I've tried with some of the better inkjet printers on the market.

Use a Canon i560, i860 or better yet a Canon i960 set at best quality and you will be stunned by the results.
Click to expand...

I've seen the Canon output, too. It's nice. But I may be harder than average to stun. 😉

I guess we'll both just have to understand that we see it differently.

The reason I questioned the recency of your experience with inkjets is that just a few years ago you would have been right on the money.
Click to expand...

I think I'm right on the money (for my needs, purposes and tastes) as of the present.

Ernie
Click to expand...
Your needs and purposes are WAY outside the norm and quite UNrelated to this topic. 😉

There are still professional photographers who won't touch ANYthing digital. 😛

For MOST people, inkjets are sufficient, AFFORDABLE and make quality photos. Of the inkjets, CANON seems to stand OUT as GREAT value - the i560 for entry level, the i860 for superb text and photos and the i960 for superb photos for a great all-round unit. What I like about my i860 is that it has a LARGE black tank DEDICATED to TEXT as well as a smaller one optimized for photos (plus it cost $104 after rebate). 🙂

Anyway, markk, if i we're you, i'd check out out hot deals forum to see what's out there that will FIT your BUDGET - it seems you will have to find a compromise to fits your needs.

BTW, printheads do SEEM to LAST w/Canon AND - best of all (unlike Epson) they don't clog with inactivity.
 
the responce to this is really helpful in details and fleshing out the subject. I just hope people see it. It is apparent Canon inkjet longterm is going to be more cost effective than HP. BUT ONLY the HP includes a new Print Head , right? and print quality is largely? dependent on that head?

but still, for text , seems the laser is the way to go, despite the advances in inkjet
 
Originally posted by: markk
the responce to this is really helpful in details and fleshing out the subject. I just hope people see it. It is apparent Canon inkjet longterm is going to be more cost effective than HP. BUT ONLY the HP includes a new Print Head , right? and print quality is largely? dependent on that head?

but still, for text , seems the laser is the way to go, despite the advances in inkjet
Click to expand...
For TEXT printing costs, laser is the way to go . . . inkjet quality can be exceptional.

Yep, the HP has the heads built-in and you pay for it. Also, when you run out of blue, you throw the whole tri-color cartridge away even though the yellow and magenta is fine. With Canon, you replace what you use. It's hard to get generic inks for HP; Canon printers have no problem with them (generic for text black is usually no problem whatsoever).

For me - since i print much more text than photos - the i860 was logical with it's separate (large) black tank reserved for text. Since i also have a Canon a300 to fool around with, the i860 is fine for the photos i take. Did i mention the Canons are FAST and SILENT?
 
Your needs and purposes are WAY outside the norm and quite UNrelated to this topic.
Click to expand...

Well, I agree that my needs and purpose are not ordinary, but the point I was making about optimal non-graphical document printing at the lowest possible cost is certainly related to the topic.

And my point about people's tastes in image output being varied was also intended to be helpful. I had a feeling from his posts that markk was looking for good text printing and that he wasn't particularly concerned about printing pictures from his digital camera. I understand why a lot of people love inkjet printers. I use HPs myself because, as markk has mentioned, it's nice to get a new printhead when you replace cartridges. And, even though the cartridges cost an arm-and-a-leg, it's worth it to me to keep the combined text and graphics performance of the printer up to snuff. It appears that HP has finally started getting its act together on the paper path / feeding issues that plagued so many of their inkjet printers, so I'm happy with these as draft printers for diagramatic documents. (I use color laser for final output, though.)

I think the bottom line is that for a lot of us (some of us?) even the best of the consumer-level printers is still not going to produce photographic output that satisfies us. Maybe I'm too picky, but I know people who make my sensitivity to printed image quality look like nonchalance. If the image I'm printing isn't going to look as good as what I see on the monitor, then I'm probably not going to bother printing it.

Ernie
 
I don't mind disagreeing with you, 8ballcoupe. Even though we're (probably) agreed on laser for text.

🙂

I used to use HP and think paying more than double for ink just to get a new printhead is wasteful. 😉

No printer is perfect and to expect a consumer product to do a professional job cheaply is UNreasonable. If you must have the absolutely best photos, you probably aren't using digital anyway and have your own color-photo lab. . . . that's why i objected to your comparison of ultra-expensive printers to $100 consumer jobbies (like my i860) for markk's NEEDS.

😉
 
Nogoodfor me - was right on in his idea, sourcing a laser for cheap right on for my needs. I am surprized at the number of people using printers to generate color prints though.
- for infrequent use a freedom from cloogging seems the only way to go.
Now all i need is as good lead on a scanner
 
Oh well, I tried.
One guy is worried about printheads and the other is comparing $100 dollar printers to $6,000 printers.

Just buy an HP inkjet and never look back. As a matter of fact I have a closet full and could make you a good deal.

RE:"I am surprized at the number of people using printers to generate color prints though."

Take a hint.

RE:"for infrequent use a freedom from cloogging seems the only way to go."

If you had done your homework you'd know some inkjets clog a lot more than others. Epson (cough).

Never had a paper jam on a Canon inkjet unlike my HP laserjets. Humm.
 
Now fellows, I never compared a $100 printer to a $6,000 printer or suggested that markk might want to buy the $6,000 printer. I mentioned that it would take something on the order of a $6,000 printer to make me happy with photo output. I was trying to make the point that not all people want the color photopgraph output that's possible with consumer-level printers. For markk the important thing seemed to be the printing of documents. He's pretty much said so in this thread, hasn't he? I think his mention of the digital camera was an aside. If he truly wants the focus of the printer to be on high quality black & white documents he's going to be happier with a decent consumer-grade laser

Of course, only he can come to the ultimate conclusion on this. It doesn't hurt for all of us to toss out our viewpoints, does it?

Ernie
 
No ones input has been wasted
1. "scanner" ?
yep, back at the begining I mentioned I was looking for multi-function printer/scanner. then discussion revealed laser printers are good for text , but not frequently in multi function devices MFD 's . and cetrtainly not less expensively. . So, If a laser can be had from e-bay cheaply and one can get 3000 copies from one cartridge. ( I take it there is not equivalent to a print head in laser design)...

And I continue to treat my photography the same way with film at a photo lab . and send out whatever few digital images I need hard copies of ...
then all I need is a scanner, potentially reaping the benefit of higher resolution from seperate components over all-in-one units.

I do see a need to get quality scans of color images, to send in email - just no need to print out any .

I missed fact that Canon inkjet DON't CLOG - thanks for bringing it to my attention
l asers are apparently affected by humidity .

Marco2 ...but $79 Canon i560 at Costco is pretty hard to gripe with
and what are you doing with a closet full of HP inkjets?
aside form whatever discount -type price you may be offering one up to sale , for
there is the higher cartridge cost

Of interest is that computergeeks.com doesn't carry Canon , when I looked to see the price of i860
whats up with that?
 
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