President Trump signs EO to advance the pipeline.

[[DHT]Osiris]

Ask Oklahoma how their earthquakes are doing.

All other points notwithstanding, from a scientific/geological standpoint, aren't minor periodic earthquakes much 'safer' than pressure building over time and releasing as a larger earthquake? That was the notion I always got from high school science classes. I always thought the earthquake arguments against fracking and whatnot were a little short-sighted. I'd rather get a few 5-7.0's every few years (or when a new well was cracked) than have it sit there until a 8.x/9.x builds up, who knows how soon/far away in the future.

 

[Darwin333]

So when do the Indians and Veterans get removed/arrested for blocking the pipeline?

The pipeline is finished...

 

[Perknose]

All other points notwithstanding, from a scientific/geological standpoint, aren't minor periodic earthquakes much 'safer' than pressure building over time and releasing as a larger earthquake? That was the notion I always got from high school science classes. I always thought the earthquake arguments against fracking and whatnot were a little short-sighted. I'd rather get a few 5-7.0's every few years (or when a new well was cracked) than have it sit there until a 8.x/9.x builds up, who knows how soon/far away in the future.

Wow, your ignorance on this subject is stunning. Fracking CREATES pressure which CREATES earthquakes where NONE would otherwise have ever occurred.

 

[IronWing]

The pipeline is finished...

There be two pipelines (well, more than that really [oh crap, I used the word "well" so that's another pipeline]) but you are correct, the Dakota Access line was the one with the protest camp. Keystone XL is just getting out of the gate.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Wow, your ignorance on this subject is stunning. Fracking CREATES pressure which CREATES earthquakes where NONE would otherwise have ever occurred.

Going a bit overboard, don't you think?

If the earthquakes generated via fracking would not have otherwise occurred, fine, it's a bad thing and its use should be halted. Has that been definitively proven though? I couldn't find any information from a cursory google search on research done either way, just that 'earthquakes can be created'.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Alright, so upon further reading, it looks like there are instances of fracking 'freeing up' otherwise stable faults, and thus causing an increased rate of both minor and major earthquakes that would have otherwise not likely happened soon (from a geological standpoint). Given that, it's probably a pretty garbage idea to frack anywhere near civilization, which may exclude most places in general unless the fault lines affected are extremely well known (unlikely), so answered both of my previous questions, I guess.

 

[lopri]

The most tragic thing is that our president does not know and does not give a s**t about what this will do for the economy or the environment, just like his supporters don't, except that they know that their side at the D.C. (e.g. the Establishment) is for this project. Our previous president had his agencies study the cost-benefit analysis of this project and explained to us that he did not approve it because it does not benefit the U.S. interest, not because of some misguided ideological loyalty. That Canadian government sued the U.S. shortly after the president's decision speaks volumes.

I am losing hope for this president and his administration. It was a modest one to begin with.

 

[vi edit]

Alright, so upon further reading, it looks like there are instances of fracking 'freeing up' otherwise stable faults, and thus causing an increased rate of both minor and major earthquakes that would have otherwise not likely happened soon (from a geological standpoint). Given that, it's probably a pretty garbage idea to frack anywhere near civilization, which may exclude most places in general unless the fault lines affected are extremely well known (unlikely), so answered both of my previous questions, I guess.

Long but good read on the subject....

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/04/13/weather-underground

 

[Perknose]

Going a bit overboard, don't you think?

Man overboard! 😀

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Long but good read on the subject....

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/04/13/weather-underground

Superb read, some pretty disturbing stuff in there related to the restriction of data coming out of valid research into the subject, most likely on the basis of money inflow to the organization doing the research.

Poignant quotes:

Although disposal wells have been used for decades, the new dewatering process has led to a dramatic increase in how much water is being disposed of. (In the state, the water used in the initial stage of fracking accounts for less than ten per cent of the water pumped down disposal wells.) In Oklahoma today, an average of about ten barrels of water comes up for every barrel of oil. Holland said, “We’re talking about billions of barrels, and it has to go somewhere.” Todd Halihan, a professor of geology at Oklahoma State University, in Stillwater, told me, “We’re injecting the equivalent of two Lake Hefners”—Oklahoma City’s four-square-mile reservoir—“into the ground each year, and we don’t really understand where that water is going.”

That really doesn't get enough play IMO. That's a geologically significant amount of water being moved around, that will not happen without affecting things in some way.

The O.G.S. is part of O.U.’s Mewbourne College of Earth and Energy, which also includes the ConocoPhillips School of Geology and Geophysics. About seventeen per cent of O.U.’s budget comes from the state. “I prepare twenty pages for those statements and what comes out is one page. Those are not necessarily my words.”

A year ago, with five others, she [Angela Spotts] founded Stop Fracking Payne County. She is concerned about the earthquakes and also about other health and environmental problems associated with fracking. “I only own a few acres, and I don’t own my mineral rights,” she said. “I am learning that they can just come on your land and put a well right there.”

Both bad things, and both unfortunately, not surprising. Article had a lot more detail on each of course.

 

[vi edit]

That really doesn't get enough play IMO. That's a geologically significant amount of water being moved around, that will not happen without affecting things in some way.

And it's not just the amount of water, but also what is in it. It's basically water that has been mixed with oil, heavy metals, and a number of other things you really don't want in your water and pumped back into the ground. If that makes it way back into aquifers or private water wells you are in trouble. It's a very dirty process.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

And it's not just the amount of water, but also what is in it. It's basically water that has been mixed with oil, heavy metals, and a number of other things you really don't want in your water and pumped back into the ground. If that makes it way back into aquifers or private water wells you are in trouble. It's a very dirty process.

Yeah, that part I was aware of. I've been pretty anti-fracking from the start, as the problems seemed obvious to me when I first started hearing about it. I never really knew whether or not the earthquake parts were unfounded though. Given the level at which the information is trying to be stifled, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

 

[vi edit]

Yeah the earthquake part is sort of semantics...."It's not the fracking that causes it....it's the wastewater pumping!". Which to me is a lot like saying guns don't kill people, bullets do.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yeah the earthquake part is sort of semantics...."It's not the fracking that causes it....it's the wastewater pumping!". Which to me is a lot like saying guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Hilariously, that article pointed out that there's now plenty of insurers offering earthquake insurance through OK, but of course with a clause that it doesn't cover 'induced' earthquakes. Typical weasely wording of insurance providers.