President is really winding up the anti-immigrant crowd - order to end birthright citizenship

[fskimospy]

I sincerely doubt Republicans have any interest whatsoever in fixing the US immigration system. I mean if they didn’t have fearmongering against scary brown people they would have to run on their actual policies, which Americans loathe. Republicans cut taxes for rich people, but America wants to RAISE taxes on rich people. Republicans tried to repeal the ACA while Americans want to strengthen it. Republicans want less gun control, Americans want more. Republicans want less regulation on business, Americans want more, etc, etc.

This is why Republicans are ramping up the culture war stuff instead of bragging about all they accomplished in the last two years. First, they barely accomplished anything. Second, people hate the little they did.

 

[hal2kilo]

I sincerely doubt Republicans have any interest whatsoever in fixing the US immigration system. I mean if they didn’t have fearmongering against scary brown people they would have to run on their actual policies, which Americans loathe. Republicans cut taxes for rich people, but America wants to RAISE taxes on rich people. Republicans tried to repeal the ACA while Americans want to strengthen it. Republicans want less gun control, Americans want more. Republicans want less regulation on business, Americans want more, etc, etc.

This is why Republicans are ramping up the culture war stuff instead of bragging about all they accomplished in the last two years. First, they barely accomplished anything. Second, people hate the little they did.

How is this any different than their normal immigration bate and switch tactics. Trump just added the 11 notch to their normal method of distracting people from their real agenda which is to make the obscenely wealthy, even wealthier. This is old news which their voters never seem to grasp.

 

[HurleyBird]

Wow, your education really failed you...

Starship Troopers was pointing out the dangers of fascism...

Ironically, in this case it looks like your education failed you. Starship Troopers was a book long before it was a movie.

 

[sdifox]

Ironically, in this case it looks like your education failed you. Starship Troopers was a book long before it was a movie.

....you read it as praising militalism, I read it as a warning against it. I read it at least a decade before the popcorn flick.

Federal Service was mostly non military.

 

[HurleyBird]

...A book which was absolutely not about pointing out the dangers of fascism, or anything close.

 

[fskimospy]

...A book which was absolutely not about pointing out the dangers of fascism, or anything close.

Yeah, if anything the book paints a pretty favorable picture of fascism. (or something approaching fascism)

 

[Jhhnn]

How is this any different than their normal immigration bate and switch tactics. Trump just added the 11 notch to their normal method of distracting people from their real agenda which is to make the obscenely wealthy, even wealthier. This is old news which their voters never seem to grasp.

When the GOP grabs them by the amygdala they swoon, head over heels in love.

 

[HurleyBird]

Yeah, if anything the book paints a pretty favorable picture of fascism. (or something approaching fascism)

In the eyes of Paul Verhoeven perhaps, who barely read any of it. Still made an awesome movie though

 

[Vic]

In the eyes of Paul Verhoeven perhaps, who barely read any of it. Still made an awesome movie though

I thought the movie sucked. I'm a long time Heinlein fan and have read practically everything of his in print. The point being made in the book is about the dangers of democracy when the electorate lacks an appreciation of why they vote and what they're voting for. So Heinlein created a scenario where citizens would be required to have some 'skin in the game' before they could vote, and had the main character's federal service be the Mobile Infantry because that, in his opinion, was the maximum amount of 'skin in the game' possible.
The book's failures, or why some people see the argument being made as pro-fascist, derive from the same failures in all of his books, ie the main characters are all Heinlein himself in idealized form, often criticized as 'Competent Man.' This combined with having to earn the right to vote plus Heinlein's usual pro-military leaning (because he had served) does give off a fascist air to some. Hey, it's fiction.

The movie was a bastardization of the book. In the book, Johnny Rico wasn't from Buenos Aires, the government actually discouraged federal service rather than propagandizing it, the Mobile Infantry was well-organized and disciplined, and Johnny Rico wasn't a white male (although that was revealed at the end of the book, which a fairly common trick of Heinlein's, see also the Cat who Walks through Walls).

Just my $0.02.

 

[K1052]

President Numb Nuts is telling reporters he wants to send 15K troops to the border. Also that he can terminate birthright citizenship like he did DACA, never mind that one of those is part of the constitution.

So dumb.

 

[fskimospy]

President Numb Nuts is telling reporters he wants to send 15K troops to the border. Also that he can terminate birthright citizenship like he did DACA, never mind that one of those is part of the constitution.

So dumb.

This shit is incredibly dumb. Bush tried the same thing in the mid-2000's. The troops can't even do any border enforcement work, the only thing they are doing is the admin work that border agents would be doing otherwise. It's basically hiring the world's most expensive office temps.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I thought the movie sucked. I'm a long time Heinlein fan and have read practically everything of his in print. The point being made in the book is about the dangers of democracy when the electorate lacks an appreciation of why they vote and what they're voting for. So Heinlein created a scenario where citizens would be required to have some 'skin in the game' before they could vote, and had the main character's federal service be the Mobile Infantry because that, in his opinion, was the maximum amount of 'skin in the game' possible.
The book's failures, or why some people see the argument being made as pro-fascist, derive from the same failures in all of his books, ie the main characters are all Heinlein himself in idealized form, often criticized as 'Competent Man.' This combined with having to earn the right to vote plus Heinlein's usual pro-military leaning (because he had served) does give off a fascist air to some. Hey, it's fiction.

The movie was a bastardization of the book. In the book, Johnny Rico wasn't from Buenos Aires, the government actually discouraged federal service rather than propagandizing it, the Mobile Infantry was well-organized and disciplined, and Johnny Rico wasn't a white male (although that was revealed at the end of the book, which a fairly common trick of Heinlein's, see also the Cat who Walks through Walls).

Just my $0.02.

I recall boobies as the sole redeeming quality of the movie.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This shit is incredibly dumb. Bush tried the same thing in the mid-2000's. The troops can't even do any border enforcement work, the only thing they are doing is the admin work that border agents would be doing otherwise. It's basically hiring the world's most expensive office temps.

Well they can build structures, they can build fences, they can drive & fly people around. Not completely useless but they are useful to pander to the Presidents base.

 

[K1052]

Well they can build structures, they can build fences, they can drive & fly people around. Not completely useless but they are useful to pander to the Presidents base.

Like 90% of them will end up kicking rocks around dusty motor pools and getting drunk in border town bars off duty.

 

[fskimospy]

I thought the movie sucked. I'm a long time Heinlein fan and have read practically everything of his in print. The point being made in the book is about the dangers of democracy when the electorate lacks an appreciation of why they vote and what they're voting for. So Heinlein created a scenario where citizens would be required to have some 'skin in the game' before they could vote, and had the main character's federal service be the Mobile Infantry because that, in his opinion, was the maximum amount of 'skin in the game' possible.
The book's failures, or why some people see the argument being made as pro-fascist, derive from the same failures in all of his books, ie the main characters are all Heinlein himself in idealized form, often criticized as 'Competent Man.' This combined with having to earn the right to vote plus Heinlein's usual pro-military leaning (because he had served) does give off a fascist air to some. Hey, it's fiction.

The movie was a bastardization of the book. In the book, Johnny Rico wasn't from Buenos Aires, the government actually discouraged federal service rather than propagandizing it, the Mobile Infantry was well-organized and disciplined, and Johnny Rico wasn't a white male (although that was revealed at the end of the book, which a fairly common trick of Heinlein's, see also the Cat who Walks through Walls).

Just my $0.02.

While I really enjoy the movie I do think it would have been better off if they just hadn't called it Starship Troopers as there's almost nothing to connect the two either in the plot or the themes presented.

I was having a discussion with my wife the other day about the applicability of Starship Troopers to our current troubles and I think there's something to it. It really does seem to me that the Boomer generation lost the sense of responsibility to the country that previous generations had and Trump is a great example. When Trump doesn't pay taxes for years his supporters don't view that as him violating his responsibilities to society, they think it's good that he got one over on the system. I sometimes wonder if a service requirement might restore some of that sense of communal responsibility that we've lost.

 

[fskimospy]

Well they can build structures, they can build fences, they can drive & fly people around. Not completely useless but they are useful to pander to the Presidents base.

Can they though? Are they sending Seabees down there? If not, I'm not sure I'd want a bunch of enlisted idiots building housing or fences or whatever. (coming from a former enlisted idiot who can't construct a thing) Also, where are they getting the materials from? There might have been some situation where these guys could have done that if they had coordinated logistics ahead of time but this was obviously thrown together at the last minute.

So yeah, maybe they can drive people around too but even that has to be closely monitored as to not violate Posse Comitatus. I'm pretty sure they are going to be almost entirely just sitting around at desk jobs doing menial work that would normally be done by the new guys or temps or whatever, all at enormous taxpayer cost.

 

[K1052]

Can they though? Are they sending Seabees down there? If not, I'm not sure I'd want a bunch of enlisted idiots building housing or fences or whatever. (coming from a former enlisted idiot who can't construct a thing) Also, where are they getting the materials from? There might have been some situation where these guys could have done that if they had coordinated logistics ahead of time but this was obviously thrown together at the last minute.

So yeah, maybe they can drive people around too but even that has to be closely monitored as to not violate Posse Comitatus. I'm pretty sure they are going to be almost entirely just sitting around at desk jobs doing menial work that would normally be done by the new guys or temps or whatever, all at enormous taxpayer cost.

Maybe they can recoup some expense by offering rides via Uber?

I mean a CH-47 has gotta be an upgrade from Select or Black Car...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well they can build structures, they can build fences, they can drive & fly people around. Not completely useless but they are useful to pander to the Presidents base.

They can also get pizza for everyone. Man I'd love to have the commander of the ops bring me a mushroom and pepperoni pie.

 

[Meghan54]

Can they though? Are they sending Seabees down there? If not, I'm not sure I'd want a bunch of enlisted idiots building housing or fences or whatever. (coming from a former enlisted idiot who can't construct a thing) Also, where are they getting the materials from? There might have been some situation where these guys could have done that if they had coordinated logistics ahead of time but this was obviously thrown together at the last minute.

So yeah, maybe they can drive people around too but even that has to be closely monitored as to not violate Posse Comitatus. I'm pretty sure they are going to be almost entirely just sitting around at desk jobs doing menial work that would normally be done by the new guys or temps or whatever, all at enormous taxpayer cost.

Never heard of combat engineers, eh? Spent a few years assigned to a combat engineer battalion and you'd be surprised what they can and do build. More fun is blowing stuff up, tho. Bangalore torpedos, C4, and det cord are fun toys.

 

[fskimospy]

Never heard of combat engineers, eh? Spent a few years assigned to a combat engineer battalion and you'd be surprised what they can and do build. More fun is blowing stuff up, tho. Bangalore torpedos, C4, and det cord are fun toys.

That’s what Seabees are. (It’s a nickname for Construction Batallions)

I’m sure engineers would be able to build just fine, but they still need materials which have to be ordered. I’m sure no such thought went into this.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm trying to visualize how high and long a wall you can build with 15,000 bodies. Tying their hands together and sticking them on spits would make a nice scarecrow fence......

 

[blackangst1]

I sincerely doubt Republicans have any interest whatsoever in fixing the US immigration system. I mean if they didn’t have fearmongering against scary brown people they would have to run on their actual policies, which Americans loathe. Republicans cut taxes for rich people, but America wants to RAISE taxes on rich people. Republicans tried to repeal the ACA while Americans want to strengthen it. Republicans want less gun control, Americans want more. Republicans want less regulation on business, Americans want more, etc, etc.

This is why Republicans are ramping up the culture war stuff instead of bragging about all they accomplished in the last two years. First, they barely accomplished anything. Second, people hate the little they did.

I dunno man. Trump has fulfilled many promises given.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Never heard of combat engineers, eh? Spent a few years assigned to a combat engineer battalion and you'd be surprised what they can and do build. More fun is blowing stuff up, tho. Bangalore torpedos, C4, and det cord are fun toys.

That's true and they might get to blow up what they build because it will be as useless as tits on a boar hog when it's over

 

[blackangst1]

That’s what Seabees are. (It’s a nickname for Construction Batallions)

I’m sure engineers would be able to build just fine, but they still need materials which have to be ordered. I’m sure no such thought went into this.

Well. to be fair, it took 5 years from passage of the bi-partisan Secure Fence Act of 2006 (border wall 1 if you will) to completion.

 

[Muse]

Yup, just like guns being held by a “well trained militia”
Can’t wait for the next Democrat President, who knew gun control would be so simple.

*for the record I’m all for an honest good discussion about birthright citizenship, practically nowhere else in the world does it.
Same with healthcare nowhere else in the world does it like us.

"Who knew healthcare would be so complicated." -- Trump licking his base's asshole