You actually have that backwards. If a prenup is done correctly it can be the ONLY thing that saves you in court. It's the people who do it wrong or have wild expectations (like she can't gain more than 20lbs..has to have my meal ready each night when I get home...etc) that get theirs tossed out.
You actually have that backwards. If a prenup is done correctly it can be the ONLY thing that saves you in court. It's the people who do it wrong or have wild expectations (like she can't gain more than 20lbs..has to have my meal ready each night when I get home...etc) that get theirs tossed out.
I fear that even mentioning the word prenup to my fiancee would cause a world of trouble....
therefore it has not been brought up.
therefore it has not been brought up.
Prenups don't always work. My father just divorced wife #3. They had a prenup, but the attorneys successfully swayed the judge that she signed it under duress, and it all got blown by the wayside.
He got stiffed for a healthy sum (five figures) each month, and they had no children together. She was just a cosmetologist, when they met. This stikes me so wrong, but that's how it is. Funny thing is, the entire family saw her as an opportunist, from the very beginning. We all knew how it would end, but he just couldn't see it. Because of it, all his relationships with his children became strained.
He got stiffed for a healthy sum (five figures) each month, and they had no children together. She was just a cosmetologist, when they met. This stikes me so wrong, but that's how it is. Funny thing is, the entire family saw her as an opportunist, from the very beginning. We all knew how it would end, but he just couldn't see it. Because of it, all his relationships with his children became strained.
Exactly when I meant when I said if the prenup is done improperly. If you make sure each has their own attorney (meaning she had someone explain what is actually happening to her/him. Someone who doesn't work for you) and have it done months in advance, there is little way of proving duress. You also want to make sure the signing is videotaped and witnessed by a judge/retired judge if at all possible.
If she truly loves you, you shouldn't be afraid of bringing something like that up. No one should.
I understand what you are saying. He should have done it your way, but that's a hindsight 20/20 type thing. Sadly, most people will believe, that just because you have a signed "supposed" legal document in hand, you are in the clear. How badly misguided you can be.
Kelemvor
Lifer
- May 23, 2002
- 16,928
- 8
- 81
If one person is bringing a lot more to the relationship than the other (money, property, etc) then I'd say go for it. But for most people who are relatively even, I don't think it matters. PreNups can actually put strain on the marriage because the other person can feel like you don't think it will work going in and that's why you feel you need the extra protection because you assume it will fail.
Both parties need to go into the marriage with the belief that divorce is simply NOT an option no matter what and that you both will do whatever it takes to make the marriage work. If you focus on that (and don't sleep around or do something stupid) you have nothing to worry about.
Both parties need to go into the marriage with the belief that divorce is simply NOT an option no matter what and that you both will do whatever it takes to make the marriage work. If you focus on that (and don't sleep around or do something stupid) you have nothing to worry about.
Tell that to the 50% of people that end up being divorced less than 5 years into their marraige.
Problem with a prenup is it's almost like saying either: a) I don't trust you, or b) You shouldn't trust me. I like to go with the philosophy that you shouldn't get married until you have complete trust between the two of you, and if you have complete trust then you don't need a prenup. It's a risk, but that's part of the game.
Kelemvor
Lifer
- May 23, 2002
- 16,928
- 8
- 81
Exactly the point. It's because they don't have the resolve going in to do anything to make the marriage work. Marriage used to be called an Institution. Not it's a passing fad to many people.
And what do they say is the reason for all those divorce? Irreconcilable Differences. Which is just a cop out for "I don't feel like working at this marriage so I'll just quit"
Im not sure it has been suggested but you can have a prenup condition that if any of the party cheat, that person can only receive xx% (i.e 25%) of the total money earned between the two of them.
PricklyPete
Lifer
- Sep 17, 2002
- 14,582
- 162
- 106
Prenup = lack of trust based on statistics. Life is a gamble, but I have full trust in my future wife...otherwise I wouldn't be marrying her. If my judgment is wrong...I'm willing to live with that mistake. I am not willing to go into a marriage structuring it for failure.
I will never get a prenup, no matter how rich I am. How can someone plan for the day when you and your wife don't love each other anymore?
GasX
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 29,033
- 6
- 81
To all the people harping on pre-nups as a trust violation, imagine a scenario.
You are happily married for 3 years
You have a beautiful 2 year old
She files for divorce
You reach a civil agreement on dividing up everything
The you start getting letters from her lawyer
You get a red hot poker stuck up your ass by the court.
You live in a trailer sending her all your money to raise your kid
She lives in your house and poisons your kids mind against you.
You end up destitute and living in your mom's basement.
OR
You are happily married for 3 years
You have a beautiful 2 year old
She files for divorce
You reach a civil agreement on dividing up everything in accordance with your pre-nup
Your divorce in finalized quickly
You maintain a friendship and work together to raise a well adjusted daughter.
The choice is yours.
You are happily married for 3 years
You have a beautiful 2 year old
She files for divorce
You reach a civil agreement on dividing up everything
The you start getting letters from her lawyer
You get a red hot poker stuck up your ass by the court.
You live in a trailer sending her all your money to raise your kid
She lives in your house and poisons your kids mind against you.
You end up destitute and living in your mom's basement.
OR
You are happily married for 3 years
You have a beautiful 2 year old
She files for divorce
You reach a civil agreement on dividing up everything in accordance with your pre-nup
Your divorce in finalized quickly
You maintain a friendship and work together to raise a well adjusted daughter.
The choice is yours.
GasX
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 29,033
- 6
- 81
ok, that was a bit extreme, but the point is this: If you have a messy divorce, not only do you get screwed financially, but you can also end up in a situation where your relationship with your kids is affected. THAT is more important than a romantic notion of marriage that does not allow for the concept of divorce to be discussed at all.
Kelemvor
Lifer
- May 23, 2002
- 16,928
- 8
- 81
But again, that's the whole point. The problem is people today consider divorce as acceptable when it should not be.
I read an interview with Will Smith in some magazine at home and he spelled it out very nicely. He said that when he and Jada had issues, they worked through them and are a strong couple for it. He also said that because they both agree that Divorce is not an option, they work together to get through anything that comes up and to strengthen their marriage at the same time.
The problem today is that marriage doesn't mean anything to a lot of people except that it's a big party. 3 months, 3 years, or 3 kids later, they just decide to end it and don't care. If people would get back to the mindset that divorce is not acceptable, this country would be a much better place.
I read an interview with Will Smith in some magazine at home and he spelled it out very nicely. He said that when he and Jada had issues, they worked through them and are a strong couple for it. He also said that because they both agree that Divorce is not an option, they work together to get through anything that comes up and to strengthen their marriage at the same time.
The problem today is that marriage doesn't mean anything to a lot of people except that it's a big party. 3 months, 3 years, or 3 kids later, they just decide to end it and don't care. If people would get back to the mindset that divorce is not acceptable, this country would be a much better place.
GasX
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 29,033
- 6
- 81
You seem to have a naive view on the good old days when two people who hated each other would stay together for fear of social stigma.Originally posted by: Kelemvor
If people would get back to the mindset that divorce is not acceptable, this country would be a much better place.
Divorce is not a bad thing per se, but a couple that doesn't have a committment to sort through their issues is not going to make it. Discussing a prenup like adults is actually a positive thing.
If you think that they are inherently evil, more power to you, but there are strong and viable reasons why pre-nups CAN be a good idea.
Jessica Simpson's dad refuesed to let her get married if she signed the pre-nup presented by Nick. Nick withdrew the pre-nup and married her anyway.
Look on Jessica's Dad face when Nick gets a check for millions. Priceless
Look on Jessica's Dad face when Nick gets a check for millions. Priceless
I'll bet over 80% of divorces happen because those people do not understand what a committment means, or really did not committ, when they said the words.
My definition of a committment is just this: No other options
My definition of a committment is just this: No other options
Originally posted by: compuwiz1
I'll bet over 80% of divorces happen because those people do not understand what a committment means, or really did not committ, when they said the words.
My definition of a committment is just this: No other options
Everyone says that divorce is not an option when they get married.... until things get bad and one person realizes that divorce is an option. As long as divorce is legal where you live, it is an option and no amount of mind tricks will make you and your partner forget that it's out there.
You can not know how you will feel or think in 5 years. I bet you don't think exactly like did 5 years ago. As hard as it is to predict yourself, it's a million times harder to predict another person's actions.... scratch that, it's impossible. Even if you stay true and refuse a divorce even though life with your spouse became miserable, there is absolutely no way to know that your spouse won't decide that their mind has changed.
The problems with both divorce and marriage is that people try to apply a fantasy to real life.
well, if she stayed home with the kids and didn't have a chance to earn a 401k then she probabley is entitled to some of yours.
Pre-nup does not work for mail order bride. Court would rule it invalid because a good attorney can claim she did not know what she was signing and did not get advised by a good attorney.
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