Power conditioner help

[mshan]

Haven't read through whole thread, but did OP consider a Kill-A-Watt to more definitively diagnose if his problem is the power line / outlet, or projector?

If voltage sage is really the problem, you could also probably get an used Richard Gray 400s series power product (now replaced by 400 Pro, which I think is basically the same thing) used off of Audiogon for under $400: Link Link

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Just in my last post I questioned whether a kill-a-watt would be useful to diagnose this problem.

I have since e-mailed the landlord about the issue and they want to send someone over to check it out later this week. My prediction is that they will likely find nothing wrong since the problem is intermittent, but I'm glad they're still sending someone.

I am in the process of finding out my rental insurance policy for electrical problems. So far I know I'm covered for lightning strike, but I don't know yet about random power issues.

What's good about the Richard Gray product?

 

[Old Hippie]

I have since e-mailed the landlord about the issue and they want to send someone over to check it out later this week. My prediction is that they will likely find nothing wrong since the problem is intermittent, but I'm glad they're still sending someone.

IMHO, this has nothing to do with your landlord/house wiring.

Your local power company is/has a temporary a problem.

I must be failing to see the problem here.

What you want is an online UPS that will sustain intermittent power drops/brown outs.

Your concern should be "how long to I want this equipmet to run without power from a house outlet so it doesn't click on and off". That's the main concern.

The "flicker" from a power outage/drop is what you want to prevent.

You want power conditionong with a UPS? That's the double conversion units mentioned earlier in this thread.....big bucks.

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Muadib
I agree, but could he plug the M5100-EX into a cheap UPS?

it's not going to clean the power any better than the ups...

Did you read the manual for it? That's what it's for. UPS units aren't normally power conditioners.

A buddy of mine went to Tweeter looking for a deal on a tv, so I asked him to pick me up 2 of the M1500UPS units. I figured that if YOyo didn't want it, that I'd have no problem selling it. Sadly they only had one, but they sold it for $280 out the door, because the box was damaged.

However, the unit itself was in perfect shape, so I'm quite happy. I thought it was defective at first, because it beeped even though it was plugged in. Once I RTFM, I learned that I had to keep it off until the battery charged a bit.

 

[mshan]

I think that Richard Gray product is kind of like a giant capacitor, but with very fast response time.

So it could probably help if you have a sagging power line, and I think it also filters out a lot of noise in the process.

Supposed to have more effect on video components than audio.

Are you sure the flicker isn't a problem with the projector. I own an Infocus 4805, never had any problems, but remember reading about some flickr problem and it was either bulb or firmware or something like that.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: Muadib

Originally posted by: sdifox

Originally posted by: Muadib
I agree, but could he plug the M5100-EX into a cheap UPS?

it's not going to clean the power any better than the ups...

Did you read the manual for it? That's what it's for. UPS units aren't normally power conditioners.

A buddy of mine went to Tweeter looking for a deal on a tv, so I asked him to pick me up 2 of the M1500UPS units. I figured that if YOyo didn't want it, that I'd have no problem selling it. Sadly they only had one, but they sold it for $280 out the door, because the box was damaged.

However, the unit itself was in perfect shape, so I'm quite happy. I thought it was defective at first, because it beeped even though it was plugged in. Once I RTFM, I learned that I had to keep it off until the battery charged a bit.

All online ups do a great job in power conditioning. regular ups do filtering. Unless you got really old stock, most UPS comes with the battery disconnected and charged. You have to connect the battery and hold the power button down for like 3 seconds and it will stop beeping.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: mshan
I think that Richard Gray product is kind of like a giant capacitor, but with very fast response time.

So it could probably help if you have a sagging power line, and I think it also filters out a lot of noise in the process.

Supposed to have more effect on video components than audio.

Are you sure the flicker isn't a problem with the projector. I own an Infocus 4805, never had any problems, but remember reading about some flickr problem and it was either bulb or firmware or something like that.

I'm not sure if it's just the projector bulb's problem causing the projector flickering, but I know my regular room lights flicker as well, which I think is pretty safe to say means I have some power issues.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: mshan
I think that Richard Gray product is kind of like a giant capacitor, but with very fast response time.

So it could probably help if you have a sagging power line, and I think it also filters out a lot of noise in the process.

Supposed to have more effect on video components than audio.

Are you sure the flicker isn't a problem with the projector. I own an Infocus 4805, never had any problems, but remember reading about some flickr problem and it was either bulb or firmware or something like that.

I'm not sure if it's just the projector bulb's problem causing the projector flickering, but I know my regular room lights flicker as well, which I think is pretty safe to say means I have some power issues.

You have power issues, get an UPS. At the very least it will save your bulb I live near a nuke plant (10km or so) and a sub station (6km or so) so I lose power quite often. there is no way I am exposing my pj to that shit.
My torrent computer is also on ups, so is my dsl modem.

 

[SlickSnake]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I'd like to hear input from someone who knows more as well.

Opinions I've seen have included the idea that a power conditioner plugged into a UPS would have to be working a lot all the time to compensate for dirty power coming out of the UPS (bad for the conditioner?). I don't know what kind of merit this idea has though based on the quality of the power coming out of the kind of UPS mentioned.

There's probably a line in the manual for the conditioners to plug them right into the wall outlet as well. Not following that would likely void any sort of protection guarantee as well. Do they put that in there just so you'll buy their more expensive combo UPS and conditioner combo units? I have no idea.

The UPS or the line conditioner should be plugged directly into the wall, especially the UPS, from experience. I experimented with this a bit, and plugging the UPSs I had into different surge power strips and line conditioners and they would all alter the voltage somehow going into the UPS causing the voltages to constantly rise and fall according to the displays. Plugging the UPSs into the wall directly would show a normal STABLE voltage.

This also does void the warranties because the power strips or line conditioners may adversely effect the UPS plugged into them in some situations were the power stops or a brown out occurs or you get a line surge. In the cases with mine, the lowered voltages would make the UPS think the line voltages were bad, and kick in the automatic voltage correction and the battery way more than it would ordinarily, which might burn out that stabilization circuit and battery prematurely like if it caused the UPS to overheat abnormally. And I am just speculating here on the failure mechanism behind the voiding of the warranty.

 

[EvilYoda]

In related news, tweeter's updated their website so it seems that prices might have been slashed again. I'm going to drop by the local store tomorrow and see what's up

 

[EvilYoda]

The Panamax M1500-UPS is now $249, LOL

 

[Muadib]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda
The Panamax M1500-UPS is now $249, LOL

I was happy for what I paid for it, and that just makes it sweeter. I might make the trip to PA or CT this weekend, if I can find a store that still has one.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Someone want to buy a Panamax for me? Pretty Please?

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: SlickSnake

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
I'd like to hear input from someone who knows more as well.

Opinions I've seen have included the idea that a power conditioner plugged into a UPS would have to be working a lot all the time to compensate for dirty power coming out of the UPS (bad for the conditioner?). I don't know what kind of merit this idea has though based on the quality of the power coming out of the kind of UPS mentioned.

There's probably a line in the manual for the conditioners to plug them right into the wall outlet as well. Not following that would likely void any sort of protection guarantee as well. Do they put that in there just so you'll buy their more expensive combo UPS and conditioner combo units? I have no idea.

The UPS or the line conditioner should be plugged directly into the wall, especially the UPS, from experience. I experimented with this a bit, and plugging the UPSs I had into different surge power strips and line conditioners and they would all alter the voltage somehow going into the UPS causing the voltages to constantly rise and fall according to the displays. Plugging the UPSs into the wall directly would show a normal STABLE voltage.

This also does void the warranties because the power strips or line conditioners may adversely effect the UPS plugged into them in some situations were the power stops or a brown out occurs or you get a line surge. In the cases with mine, the lowered voltages would make the UPS think the line voltages were bad, and kick in the automatic voltage correction and the battery way more than it would ordinarily, which might burn out that stabilization circuit and battery prematurely like if it caused the UPS to overheat abnormally. And I am just speculating here on the failure mechanism behind the voiding of the warranty.

I've got my APC Smart UPS plugged into a surge protector. It's just a cheap surge protector, but considering my UPS is only covered for something like 500 joules, this should be a safer setup than without the surge protector. The consensus on avsforum seems to be that a UPS plugged into a series mode (SM) surge suppressor is the best setup: 1363-post thread for your viewing pleasure.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: kalrith
I've got my APC Smart UPS plugged into a surge protector. It's just a cheap surge protector, but considering my UPS is only covered for something like 500 joules, this should be a safer setup than without the surge protector. The consensus on avsforum seems to be that a UPS plugged into a series mode (SM) surge suppressor is the best setup: 1363-post thread for your viewing pleasure.

Your last sentence is correct, but you absolutely should not plug the UPS (which *has* a MOV device in it) into another MOV surge device.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: kalrith
I've got my APC Smart UPS plugged into a surge protector. It's just a cheap surge protector, but considering my UPS is only covered for something like 500 joules, this should be a safer setup than without the surge protector. The consensus on avsforum seems to be that a UPS plugged into a series mode (SM) surge suppressor is the best setup: 1363-post thread for your viewing pleasure.

Your last sentence is correct, but you absolutely should not plug the UPS (which *has* a MOV device in it) into another MOV surge device.

Why is that? I know that I shouldn't have a surge protector downstream from the UPS, but I thought upstream was OK. Will the 480-joule rating on my UPS protect my equipment better than the several-thousand-joule rating of my surge protector? I know that an SM surge suppressor would be best, but I don't have an extra $400 to buy one for my computer and one for my HT equipment. I just want to compare the protection I would get with the UPS plugged right into the outlet rather than plugged into my $20 surge protector.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Anyone care to comment about their thoughts on this?

This is a bit different than before...

The original situation was that every once in a while the lights would get dimmer for a few seconds and then go back to normal.

Right now my lights are going slightly dimmer for just a short period of time at intervals of ~10-20 seconds. Since it's being so regular, I was able to take a video of it that doesn't quite give the full effect, but you can sort of see it in the video.
(Right when the video starts, then 10 seconds in, then 24 seconds in)
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="https://mywebspace.wisc.edu/spmclaughlin/web/Random/Flicker.wmv">https://mywebspace.wisc.edu......Random/Flicker.wmv</a>

This is the first time I've noticed this kind of effect from the lights. The degree of brightness difference is reduced vs. before (it was much worse before) and the duration is much shorter, but it's at very regular intervals now.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

yikes! is there anyone across the street? you could ask them if they're having the same issue. if they are, call up the electric company. you'll want to bring this to the attention of the owner. does he own the bar, too? do you have a volt meter? renter's insurance?

btw, the link in your op is busted

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

There's a co-worker who lives just a couple houses away that I could ask.

I sent the video to the landlord as well.

I do not have a volt meter but do have renter's insurance.

Fixed link in OP (I hope)

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Update 2:

Property management guys came by today to take a look and found 20+ unlabeled electrical boxes in the basement so they will be calling the power company.

http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/Y...DAjello/Electrical.JPG

 

[Muadib]

Did they add equipment in the bar? Something must have changed in the building.
Is your fuse box & meter separate from the bar?

If your power company is like mine, unless the problem is outside the building, all they are going to do is tell your landlord to get an electrician. At least they got the ball rolling.

 

[Tiamat]

Hey, props for getting management involved. Looks like the electrician may fix this whole thing so you don't have to worry much at all in the future.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Muadib
Did they add equipment in the bar? Something must have changed in the building.
Is your fuse box & meter separate from the bar?

If your power company is like mine, unless the problem is outside the building, all they are going to do is tell your landlord to get an electrician. At least they got the ball rolling.

They might have added something to the bar. I hardly ever go down there. I think I've been in the bar 3 times in as many years.

Until yesterday I was pretty sure that everything was together on that fusebox I took a picture of earlier, but I have no idea now since apparently there are 20+ electrical boxes in the basement.

I just looked up AB Electric. I assumed that was the power company, but I bet you're right that it's a private company of electricians.
http://www.abelectric.org/

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
Hey, props for getting management involved. Looks like the electrician may fix this whole thing so you don't have to worry much at all in the future.

Yeah, they've been very cool about it. I hope they can figure everything out.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Question for you guys - the 1500UPS units from Panamax for $249 are open box items with full warranties. According to the guy I talked to, they've been sitting on a shelf turned on with nothing plugged into them. Do you think that it would be a good idea to get one of those, or should I look for something else?