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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,001
9,877
136
fskimospy said:
Elections are popularity contests. If the winner of the popularity contest is more conservative than you that indicates the median voter preference is more conservative than you.

I can see why people want to believe that if democrats moved left they would win because in that scenario liberals get to win elections without sacrificing anything. It’s probably not the case though.

It appears in the most recent election black and Hispanic turnout for democrats was lower than expected. These groups are among the most conservative in the democratic coalition. Why would we think moving left would turn them out more?
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But that all assumes (a) that the job of politics is to find out what people already want and try to pander to that, rather than to lead and to inspire people and come up with new ideas (b) that those 'wants' are fixed and unchanging (c) that there's a simple mono-valued political spectrum that runs from left to right and encompasses all issues, and (d) that people are uniformly and evenly distributed along that spectrum, rather than clustering at particular points on it, including at the 'extremes'.

Absent those assumptions the idea that just moving towards the politics of the 'winning side' will improve things may be quite incorrect.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,702
54,694
136
pmv said:
But that all assumes (a) that the job of politics is to find out what people already want and try to pander to that, rather than to lead and to inspire people and come up with new ideas (b) that those 'wants' are fixed and unchanging (c) that there's a simple mono-valued political spectrum that runs from left to right and encompasses all issues, and (d) that people are uniformly and evenly distributed along that spectrum, rather than clustering at particular points on it, including at the 'extremes'.

Absent those assumptions the idea that just moving towards the politics of the 'winning side' will improve things may be quite incorrect.
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The question is not if you can imagine a situation where that’s not the case. It’s just not the likely answer.
 
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Braznor

Braznor

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2005
4,767
435
126
Thats right. Keep going even more left, that way you all can exit the universe altogether into another one where your delusions are actually true and everyone votes for you!
 
MrSquished

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
136
Pens1566 said:
Most of the data/analysis I've seen in the '24 post mortem is that D voters simply did not turn out. I don't think you correct that by swinging even more to the right. Getting more like Liz Cheney is not going to fix your #s in Dearborn ...
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nickqt said:
You're conflating multiple things together here.

What "agenda" did the voters want?

And why would they be in for "a rude awakening" when they get the agenda of the person they voted for?

The answer seems to be, the electorate is whomever decides to vote this election cycle, and in this particular case, neither candidate got more than 50% of the vote, so in terms of what "the majority" wants, it seems to be "not Trump" and "not Harris".

The "left" agenda polls well issue-by-issue, much better than the Republican agenda.

Unfortunately, a large portion of the US electorate is misinformed/willfully ignorant, or downright malevolent.

I don't see how Democrats pick up more votes by going to the right of any Cheney, because at that point, I might as well just vote for a Republican and be a vocally-proud shitbag.
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You are exactly right of course. And this is why we don't need this rot being spread by the exact liberal limousine demographic that shoved a Biden renomination down our throats without letting us have an actual primary. The single biggest Democratic strategic mistake in beating Trump, by far.

This rot takes hold and holds the Democratic party back yet again.
 
F

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,702
54,694
136
gothuevos said:
Welp, this could be the final nail in the coffin for the Democratic party. Basically a lot of what they pushed regarding COVID was likely false.

I say good riddance. They were never our friends to begin with.

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How delusional are you? You think a Republican committee putting out a report saying mean things about democrats means anything?

You really need to learn how to read an article. Nothing you said there was accurate. It’s just partisan bullshit.
 
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dainthomas

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,913
3,891
136
fskimospy said:
How delusional are you? You think a Republican committee putting out a report saying mean things about democrats means anything?

You really need to learn how to read an article. Nothing you said there was accurate. It’s just partisan bullshit.
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They used Boris Johnson as a source for the lab leak theory. That should tell you everything you need to know about this report.
 
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P

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
15,001
9,877
136
gothuevos said:
Welp, this could be the final nail in the coffin for the Democratic party. Basically a lot of what they pushed regarding COVID was likely false.

I say good riddance. They were never our friends to begin with.

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Yeah, I've said before I didn't think you were a false-flag type or a Russian or a troll, and that you were just someone who is super-anxious or pessimistic by nature, but I'm starting to think I might have been wrong. No-one posting in good-faith could take that obviously partisan set of unsubstantiated assertions remotely seriously (Boris Johnson as a source???).

You over-egged the pudding this time.

I mean that's not a "report", it's statement of right-wing Republican opinions. They have a right to express opinions, but to dress it up as some sort of researched, definitive 'report' and take it as the death knell of the Democratic Party is just utterly ludicrous.
 
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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,480
9,702
136
ondma said:
So, for those who think the Dems need to move more left, I have a question for you. If you are drowning in 10 feet of water, your answer is to jump into a pool 20 feet deep? Just double down on what is not working? Good luck with that.
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You want us to double down on mediocrity, of a middling policy that helps too few people.
The working class will say you abandoned them... if you insist on staying the course of doing nothing for them!
That course must be reversed with decisive acts and policies.
 
MrSquished

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,060
24,366
136
Jaskalas said:
You want us to double down on mediocrity, of a middling policy that helps too few people.
The working class will say you abandoned them... if you insist on staying the course of doing nothing for them!
That course must be reversed with decisive acts and policies.
Click to expand...
Just ask these folks to tell us where and how Kamala was too far left and how should the next candidate go further right.

They've been asked but haven't specified shit.

I'm looking forward to their answers
 
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