The SCOTUS case (s) involve getting to Trumps financial records, NOT him telling people to withhold testimony from an impeachment, not like the spineless bags of shit like Moscow Mitch or rump-licking Graham will honor the constitution though.
See #20, above. Saying the Dems were always out to get him in no way justifies Trump's deeds. It was deeply wrong.
GodisanAtheist
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2006
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-Not sure who you're arguing against here, but you think Dems have any more/are willing to play any more cards up their sleeves at this point then I applaud your fountains of optimism.
Do you think OP's proposition is going to become a reality or that Dems have some crazy hat trick they're going to play to go after Senate Pubs who've clearly conspired with T?
UNCjigga
Lifer
- Dec 12, 2000
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They campaigned on impeachment you say? Then if they won overwhelmingly in 2018, that would mean America wants impeachment??
You can’t have it both ways—either America wants impeachment, or Democrats didn’t campaign on impeachment (I seem to recall not fucking up Obamacare playing a big part in the Blue Wave.)
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SC has not ruled on anything yet, its a review. SC has not generally interfered in disputes between A1 and A2. No way courts are going to say A1 which has oversight power over A2 must goto A3 and let them decide. That violates the Constitution.
BTW - Since Mitch held up Omamas SC pick for almost 1 year a Dem gets in and adds justices to the SC bringing back some balance to GOP's version of court packing. Republicans had stated during 2016 they were not going to seat any of Hillary's nominees so fuck em'
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Trump wants to turn this into a circus let him. Democrats can state we are giving Trump what he wants but we get our fact witnesses.
These witnesses are the closest to Trump and under oath the remaining truth will come out. We get their testimony behind closed doors first then have public hearings. It would put a nail in the case.
These witnesses are the closest to Trump and under oath the remaining truth will come out. We get their testimony behind closed doors first then have public hearings. It would put a nail in the case.
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Republicans did the same to Obama and somehow he managed to serve 8 years without any of his people being indicted to thrown in prison. There were plans in the works to impeach Hillary even BEFORE the election if she had won.
That argument is a wash. You'll have to come up with something else.
soundforbjt
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2002
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Trump isn't ramming anything wrt judges, MoscowMitch is doing that and the Reich has given Trump the list of judges. No brains or thought required.
I object to your denigration of efforts to do the right thing. America can't tolerate a President abusing the power of his office to create foreign interference in our elections. It's utterly corrupt. We also can't tolerate the cover up, either. If the Senate majority can't put principle above partisanship then it's on them.
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
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That's the straw man created by the Trump propaganda machine. There are two things to consider.
First, there is no secret that Trump has been slapping the Opposition in the face daily ever since winning the election. Instead of pursuing a conciliatory tone when he lost the popular vote to capture the presidency, he hasn't missed a chance to deride Obama and Clinton every chance he can get, and he's still doing it three years later as a major talking point in every rally and news conference.
So people were justifiably outraged from the beginning, exemplified in the extreme by Kathy Griffin's ketchup-drenched blond mop-head. What did anyone expect?
Second and more important, Trump has committed impeachable offenses from the very beginning. The hush-money payments to the two bimbos; Comey's firing; the attempt to fire Mueller; instructing Don McGahn to lie about it; attempts to intimidate and influence witnesses; gross violations of the Emoluments clause.
But, of course, the Trumpie mantra has risen in frequency and volume: "Democrats just hate the president, and that's why they want to impeach him."
Some of us are "Democrats" of necessity. And we despise Trump essentially because he's impeachable. The Trumpies have put the horse before the cart -- as usual about everything.
ADDENDUM: McConnell and Graham are signaling that they will be KKK jurors at the trial of someone who lynched a black man. They've more than just "signaled": as McConnell openly announces he's coordinating with the White House.
The House will go on record this week -- for historical record -- with their narrow impeachment over the Ukraine debacle. What they should best do from this point forward is to patiently await further developments: more grossly impeachable offenses; revelations if the tax records are exposed; further evidence that Trump is manipulating his own tax audit. The list expands at a faster rate than Trump can schedule more rallies with the Base.
As those facts come to the surface, there should be another impeachment hearing by the Judiciary Committee, followed by more articles of impeachment put to a House vote, and another and another.
He must not be allowed to get away with his crimes, or those crimes must be put on the record as having public recognition.
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thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
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Republicans were talking about impeaching Clinton in 2016.
Republicans Are Already Talking About Impeaching Clinton
The G.O.P. is warning of a “constitutional crisis” if Clinton wins.
Dems didn't start talking about impeaching Trump until his criminal actions were untenable. It's not Dems fault that Trump has been a criminal for decades.
An important part of a political trial. I haven't seen any attempt at fair yet, nor do I expect to.
BonzaiDuck
Lifer
- Jun 30, 2004
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Republicans were talking about impeaching Clinton in 2016.
Republicans Are Already Talking About Impeaching Clinton
The G.O.P. is warning of a “constitutional crisis” if Clinton wins.www.vanityfair.com
Dems didn't start talking about impeaching Trump until his criminal actions were untenable. It's not Dems fault that Trump has been a criminal for decades.
I'd like to agree with you, but as I said in my previous (long) post -- the man has been an outrage and a slap in the face to half the electorate since he lost the popular vote to capture the White House. I know, honestly, that I was "thinking" of impeachment at November's end before the inauguration. I could say I was "hoping" for it.
But there have to be grounds for impeachment. Unbalanced behavior, narcissistic personality disorder and other aspects might be fodder for Section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Impeachment foundations are fairly clear, and they don't have to be violations of a criminal statute. On the other hand, outright criminal behavior of a serious nature, obstruction, threats to National Security, anything akin to "Treason, Bribery, High Crimes and Misdemeanors" may show "gray" areas, but the spectrum of possibilities would also have clear and sound bases for removal.
I think we've crossed that line, even as the (ugh!) "President's" supporters continue to act as though the Emperor has new clothes . . .
There's the minor matter of this oath, part of the Senate rules in an impeachment trial-
Sen. Mitch McConnell breaks impeachment oath before taking it
Imagine a jury foreman announcing that the defendant was innocent even before the trial starts. Wait...you don't have to.
www.azcentral.com
I mean, here it is- proof positive that Trump is a liar, a cheat, a thief & a con man, unfit to serve as President. You know it as well as McConnell. Claiming that the process has been unfair is just a form of denial.
GodisanAtheist
Diamond Member
- Nov 16, 2006
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-I think you're reading my statement wrong. I am not denegrating the impeachment effort, I fully support doing the right thing: creating a laundry list of constitutional crimes and nailing the President to the wall with them.
I will "denigrate" the "liberal" Democratic party for limp wristing the whole process, refusing to play hardball with Pubs (again, do you think Dems are going to pull a manuver like the one the OP states?), And not getting a single passionate firebrand to get out in front of the American public and explain the gravity of normalizing Trump's crimes day after day after day.
The fundamental flaw in that thinking is that you can't break an oath before you swear it.There's the minor matter of this oath, part of the Senate rules in an impeachment trial-
Sen. Mitch McConnell breaks impeachment oath before taking it
Imagine a jury foreman announcing that the defendant was innocent even before the trial starts. Wait...you don't have to.
I mean, here it is- proof positive that Trump is a liar, a cheat, a thief & a con man, unfit to serve as President. You know it as well as McConnell. Claiming that the process has been unfair is just a form of denial.
Other than that, the republicans almost certainly won't impeach him because maintaining a power base is more important to them than tossing the president, and I agree, that's not fair. On the other hand the democrats have been looking for a reason to impeach him since the day he won, and that's not fair either.
The problem is that Trump is a classless asshole and a narcissist. He can't keep his mouth shut and he speaks in hyperbole. None of those things are endearing, none of them are respectable, but he has done a few things that should have been addressed years ago.
At this point, I'll accept whatever the senate decides to do. In less than a year the citizens will decide the outcome. My hunch is Trump will be history at that point.
True, but you can announce your intention to do so, which McConnell & Graham have both done.
So what? Trump's misdeeds here are undeniable. He knowingly & purposefully abused the power of his office & the trust of the People in an attempt to smear a political opponent.
Please. The problem is that Trump has a criminal mind. The Law isn't something to live by. It's just an impediment to his goals.
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This thread and everything the democraps have been doing lately reeks of losing.
Hail Trump! His crimes are justified because Fuck You, Libtards. We have the Power!
Yeah, whatevs...
The Senate trial will be orderly, legal and will be presided over by a Justice. The Dems are desperately trying to find a way to derail the process and anything that does not go their way will be due to a perceived unfairness and cheating by the GOP. Got it. What a shit show.
The Senate trial will be orderly, legal and will be presided over by a Justice. The Dems are desperately trying to find a way to derail the process and anything that does not go their way will be due to a perceived unfairness and cheating by the GOP. Got it. What a shit show.
Please. The OP & the Dems aren't the same thing. Your remarks are a great example of Nazi propaganda technique- Accuse the other side of that which you are guilty.
The identity of the whistleblower is immaterial. Investigating the Bidens is immaterial. Those things & others are demonstrable attempts by the GOP to derail the process. Collusion between McConnell & Cipollone is an attempt to derail Justice.
Or will you have the chutzpah to actually defend what Trump has done?
It will be led by a coward, (McConnell), who has ignored his constitutional role and openly is "working with" Trump's lawyers. This is akin to a defense lawyer "working" with the jury before a trial to virtually ensure the outcome. There is no means in the constitution to force these Senators to do what they have been tasked with, so they'll get away with it. I've voted mostly Democratic over the years but it's shocking to see republicans continue to defend Trump no matter what he does or says. This is a POTUS that calls the FBI "scum", calls a guy like McCain a "loser" and openly encourages racism and asks for for foreign aid in election's. If Obama or Clinton did 1/10th of what Trump has done I'd be pushing for them to be gone, stat. One wonders if there is ANYTHING Trump could possibly do that would make his base turn away.
sportage
Lifer
- Feb 1, 2008
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TRY THIS OBSERVATION....
Democrats have limited the articles impeachment this time around just in case this senate phase fails, then Democrats retake the senate in 2020, with also retaining the house, then in 2021 introduce new articles of impeachment purposely left out of the first attempt, and then successfully impeach and remove Donald Trump before the summer of 2021.
That could be why proven collusion from the Mueller report and from payouts to Stormy Daniels was not included in this first attempt. Just maybe Democrats expect a second chance?
And who knows, maybe they’ll get it.
Democrats have limited the articles impeachment this time around just in case this senate phase fails, then Democrats retake the senate in 2020, with also retaining the house, then in 2021 introduce new articles of impeachment purposely left out of the first attempt, and then successfully impeach and remove Donald Trump before the summer of 2021.
That could be why proven collusion from the Mueller report and from payouts to Stormy Daniels was not included in this first attempt. Just maybe Democrats expect a second chance?
And who knows, maybe they’ll get it.
But at that point it could be taken as not doing a constitutional duty vs just going after him on a partisan basis.
Were you not just complaining in another thread about the quality of posting in P&N and placing the blame solely on those who consider "liberal"?This thread and everything the democraps have been doing lately reeks of losing.
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