How happy would you be if you were hungry and a good Muslim (read not fanatic) offered you food only if you accepted Islam? Not very, and that would not make the person who is offering a very good person either. You want to help, help with no strings attached. Period.
How happy would you be if you were hungry and a good Muslim (read not fanatic) offered you food only if you accepted Islam? Not very, and that would not make the person who is offering a very good person either. You want to help, help with no strings attached. Period.
Not all of course, but there are some, and if nothing else, I'm sure they atleast expect you to sit through a seminar or something.
If my children and I are starving to death I'll sit all day long and listen to somebody yap about any religion. I might not convert, but who cares, its food and my children and I are alive. Maybe I'm just a really tolerant person though.
I would sit through a Carrot-top show if I'm starving to death...well with ear plugs and blindfolds. If we shouldn't let humanitarian aid in from Christians should we tell moslems from America not to help out too, there are some christians in Iraq too. I generally don't agree with the methodology of missionaries, but I think that sometimes you should just let people help out. I doubt they'll convert very many anyway. They'll come home angry and exhausted, but they may have fed some dying people.Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
If my children and I are starving to death I'll sit all day long and listen to somebody yap about any religion. I might not convert, but who cares, its food and my children and I are alive. Maybe I'm just a really tolerant person though.
I agree with you on many points, I too would sit through anything if it meant feeding my family. My problem is with people who would take advantage of such desperation to do what they perceive as being god's work. I say let anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu etc. help out, but they should help out because it is the right thing to do, not an opportunity to win converts to their religion.
Originally posted by: LilBlinbBlahIce
Originally posted by: ConclamoLudus
If my children and I are starving to death I'll sit all day long and listen to somebody yap about any religion. I might not convert, but who cares, its food and my children and I are alive. Maybe I'm just a really tolerant person though.
I agree with you on many points, I too would sit through anything if it meant feeding my family. My problem is with people who would take advantage of such desperation to do what they perceive as being god's work. I say let anyone, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu etc. help out, but they should help out because it is the right thing to do, not an opportunity to win converts to their religion.
I would agree with that statement, but the problem is nobody thinks like that. Nobody says, "let's go over there and get some converts," it all starts off with good intentions. In this case, I say let them in, they'll probably do more good than harm, if they get chased out they get chased out, they know the dangers. It won't be easy for them considering these people are allowed to celebrate being moslem for the first time in their lives, I doubt they are going to be turning with open souls to christian missionaries. But there is no telling how many lives could be saved from starvation or infection, etc. from allowing the missionaries in.
mastertech01
Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
- Nov 13, 1999
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I didn't know there were that many. I meant that if they get run out of town by people the islamic majority that doesn't want to convert, than so be it.
moonman if you were raised a muslim you end up being a conservative republican...why because you never make any sense.
moonman if you were raised a muslim you end up being a conservative republican...why because you never make any sense.
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What, that made sense?
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What, that made sense?
You guys arguing over Christian missionaries is humorous. Do you know any missionaries? Where do you get these ideas? These people leave comfortable homes in the USA to go to some of the most hostile, inhumane, unhospitable places on the earth to aid and assist people and you want them shot? Do you think they are foolish enough to believe someone will become a true Christian for a loaf of bread? Wow! You people are really a piece of work! At least go and meet a missionary! Learn something about giving, because I'm guessing it is a foriegn concept to you!
If they don't hate us now, Jehova's Witnesses waking them up at 9 am on saturday morning will fix that in a hurry.
Actually most good Muslims should be up by then and have at least one prayer completed.
I definitely would hate to see Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Franklin Graham carrying the banner of Jesus to Iraq.
"I think most of us had Falwell and Co. in mind when we were posting, atleast I did. "
What do Jerry Falwell and Christian missionaries have in common?
What do Jerry Falwell and Christian missionaries have in common?
Falwell is a Baptist. God calls on all of his believers to spread the Gospel. Just b/c Falwell is a lying, hypocritical prick does not absolve him from the responsibility to take Jesus all over the world.
Really? Let's start of by defining missionary:
Missionary:
1. One who is sent on a mission, especially one sent to do religious or charitable work in a territory or foreign country.
2. One who attempts to persuade or convert others to a particular program, doctrine, or set of principles; a propagandist. (dictionary.com)
I think the second defenition is more pertinent to our discussion.
Now lets see Falwell:
He has claimed that Islam is a "wicked and evil religion" and the prophet Mohammed a "terrorist"
He has claimed that he will spread god's word at any opportunity. Do a google search, you will find a ton of references to Falwell calling for "spreading the cause"
The guy is a bigot and the fact that he has so many supporters is very, very scary. Now he's meeting with members of the Israeli ultra right to discuss debunking Bush's vaunted "ME Road Map". But do the born again utra right wing freaks really care about Jews that much? Not really:
"What, exactly, is the basis for the fervent evangelical support of Israel? It is not necessarily a high regard for Jews, most of whom fare very badly in the evangelical view of the Last Days: two-thirds will die during the Tribulation, and the rest will convert to Christianity. " from an article by Jerry Natterstadt
Billy Graham's views are pretty disturbing as well: "From time to time darker currents of evangelical thinking about Jews are visible. Billy Graham, who always publicly expressed respect for Jewish people, was caught on tape telling Richard Nixon that Jews "swarm around me and are friendly to me because they know that I'm friendly with Israel. But they don't know how I really feel about what they are doing to this country." And Falwell told a group of pastors in 1999 that the Antichrist might be a Jew currently alive." (From the same article. If you don't think its good enough I'm sure you can find other sources on google). So basically it comes down to the Falwells and Graham being a bunch of racist $hits who don't really give a rat's @ss about anyone who is not an Evangelist or willing to convert. Sickening IMO and is just doing more to piss off Muslims the world over, point is, keep them out of Iraq.
I don't disagree with your idea of Falwell, but you clearly chose which defenition is pertinent to this discussion. How do you know that def #2 is more pertinent. This thread is talking about missionaries going to Iraq, not Falwell going on a crusade. I'm not saying def #2 is ruled out, its not, but you are stereotyping the missionaries as type 2 when they may very well be type 1. Don't let a couple bad names ruin your idea of humanitarian missionaries, it only makes you APPEAR narrow-minded. You may only choose def. #2 for your defenition if you want to, but I doubt most missionaries fall into that category. I say again if my children are starving, I don't care who is handing out the food, or what they tell me. I'm alive and so are my children. Who knows how many people could be saved from starvation if we let them help.
How many christian missionaries makes up a "flood" anyway?
I am in no way saying all missionaries are that way. I have heard of some of the wonderful things missionaries have done the world over and I in no way doubt that the majority of them mean well. I am just saying that there is the danger that the aforementioned, being as visible and having the reach they do, could give any Chirstian based charity a bad name by proselyzing when a good number of Muslims are aware of their views on Islam.
...and what are their views on Islam? The Christian missionaries that is... Maybe I'm misunderstanding. It happens.
I don't know what every Christian missionary's views on Islam are, but from what Falwell and Co. said, one could assume they (Falwell and Co. that is) would not mind if Islam and all its followers dissapeared into thin air.
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