Pope negotiates with God, abolishes limbo. Dead infants rejoice.

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magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
10,973
14
76
Originally posted by: themusgrat
Unfortunately, magomago, logically, you aren't the one that makes those rules in any case. Logically, God can do anything He wants to.

I would think of it rationally:

Why would any god, whom we all regard as compassionate regardless of our POV (well assuming we believe in God) send a baby to hell? Emotions aside, a baby cannot control any of its own actions and without the help of others it simply could not SURVIVE.


And why would this rational, just, and compassionate God, send people to hell simply because they a) never heard of the message of God -or- b) existed before that time? What about every person in North America prior to the spread of missionary activity (Of course with the assumption that the Missionaries were spreading the "True word of God")? Are they all doomed to hell? They may not have had a chance to listen or even become AWARE of the message of God, but if they did and were alive who is to say they wouldn't have been receptive?


THAT is why it makes sense for "babies" to go straight to Heaven simply because they can commit no wrong - which makes them sinless. They just whine, poop, eat....well maybe to some fathers and mothres the whining is enough to be a sin ;)

As for the latter - it makes MORE sense to say "Those who never heard the message of God will have their own judgement as compared with those who were aware of the message" because it is still fair enough to those would never heard the message but STILL could have been receptive.

The definition of "to hear a message" is obviously very vague: I'm sure to some people just hearing "There is a religion called Christianity or Islam or BLA" constitutes "becoming aware of it"; whereas others would think that being aware of the message is actually having the chance to learn and study about it. I'm not here to pick one of the other, but just trying to flesh out my point only a little bit.

I'm not making those rules either - but a just God wouldn't just toss infants and those who were unaware into hell, doctrine or not.

We do agree on one thing - ultimately everything is up to God because he is all powerful, so regardless of what we can argue for hours about...we won't decide who does or doesn't go to hell.

So despite the Pope's comments, I don't think God will change anything simply because the Pope decrees it such. If anything, to me it shows that perhaps the Catholic Religion is the one to be questioned.

Too bad that doesn't prevent people from being "holier than thou" and trying to tell us if we will or won't go to heaven...
 

djheater

Lifer
Mar 19, 2001
14,637
2
0
Originally posted by: Phokus
When i read this, i thought it was an onion piece. How sadly i was mistaken. Is it me or has the catholic church turned into some sort of marketing company? OH NOSSSS, them muslims believe unbaptized babiees go to heaven, we better do the same to get a larger market in 3rd world countries!!!!


Turned into? religion is an exercise in PR, and has been from the begining.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Do any of you realize that this was never official Church doctrine in the first place?
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
It seems like the Church is making sh!t up as they go along. It either IS or it ISN'T; no amount of doctrinal review will change that.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
It seems like the Church is making sh!t up as they go along. It either IS or it ISN'T; no amount of doctrinal review will change that.

Originally posted by: CadetLee
Do any of you realize that this was never official Church doctrine in the first place?

They're not "changing" any doctrine.
 

themusgrat

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2005
1,408
0
0
I agree, babies go straight to heaven. And again, God doesn't have to live by your standards in order to be God. And even if God did "toss infants and those who were unaware into hell," it wouldn't just be a whim. Everyone is born in sin, according to the Bible, and since God is holy, He won't accept sin into heaven. And I agree of course that God will not change because of Catholics, or anyone for that matter. All denominations have stuff wrong. Sorry if I sould "holier than thou," I don't mean to be. I just assume that anyone who knows anything about the Bible will understand that I'm not giving opinion, merely paraphrasing the Bible. I think I mentioned that a few times.....
 

timosyy

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2003
1,822
0
0
To the author of author of the article in the OP, and to a few posters in this thread, it is unfair to generalize Catholics as "Christians".

"Christians" are generally divided into three camps: Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox.

/comparative religions class

"Limbo" or "Purgatory" is a purely Catholic belief, one I view as largely human theory built on conjectures and nothing more.

To those who died before Christ, I quote 1 Peter 3:18-20- "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."

As for the babies, I quote 1 Corinthians 7:14- "For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sactified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."

Is it truly neccessary for a pope when answers can readily be found in the Bible itself?
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,528
908
126
It's reassuring to know that man can cast aside the teachings of "god." Not that I believe in that mumbo jumbo bull sh!t.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,517
223
106
Originally posted by: timosyy
To the author of author of the article in the OP, and to a few posters in this thread, it is unfair to generalize Catholics as "Christians".

"Christians" are generally divided into three camps: Protestant, Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox.

/comparative religions class

"Limbo" or "Purgatory" is a purely Catholic belief, one I view as largely human theory built on conjectures and nothing more.

To those who died before Christ, I quote 1 Peter 3:18-20- "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built."

As for the babies, I quote 1 Corinthians 7:14- "For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sactified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy."

Is it truly neccessary for a pope when answers can readily be found in the Bible itself?

If you have some time to kill, this is a good read.

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
It's reassuring to know that man can cast aside the teachings of "god." Not that I believe in that mumbo jumbo bull sh!t.

Did you even read the thread? :confused: