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Poll: Zero tolerance for DUI followed by manditory prison time measured in years

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Originally posted by: beer
'A beer or two' does not impair your ability to operate a motor vechile. They have proven that .08 is the level at which impairment begins. So yes, I can drink 'a beer or two' and get in my car right now, and drive because i have no signs of impairment. I can also drink 4 beers, wait two hours and then go. I am college educated, what's your point? I trust scientific, conclusive research over the words of some pompous prick who's not even old enough to drink legally in the first place, (i.e you).

Someone needs to knock you off your pedestal. I'd perfer a 2x4
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Why would you willingly take any handicap when it comes to the control of your vehicle? Regardless of "point of impairment." There wouldn't be states switching to zero tolerance if there was really something to this "point of impairment"

I gaurentee you that if you're exhausted, haven't eaten anything measurable in 24 hours, weigh under 180lbs and drink two beers, and go outside... as you suggest.... you're going to have problems driving, even though you are below you're "point of impairment." It's all relative, so why isn't it all illegal? Driving is serious stuff and I don't understand why people would ever do anything on the road to lessen the amount of control they have over their vehicle....

It's been a while since I made the OP, so I may be taking a rephrase here.... but I really believe that if you are stopped for whatever infraction and THEN you turn anything positive on a brethalyzer, you should have the library of congress thrown at you, because clearly you were not in control of the situation and took the chance that your "level of impairment" was not sufficient to cause this loss of control.
 
Originally posted by: acemcmac
Why would you willingly take any handicap when it comes to the control of your vehicle? Regardless of "point of impairment." There wouldn't be states switching to zero tolerance if there was really something to this "point of impairment"

I gaurentee you that if you're exhausted, haven't eaten anything measurable in 24 hours, weigh under 180lbs and drink two beers, and go outside... as you suggest.... you're going to have problems driving, even though you are below you're "point of impairment." It's all relative, so why isn't it all illegal? Driving is serious stuff and I don't understand why people would ever do anything on the road to lessen the amount of control they have over their vehicle....

It's been a while since I made the OP, so I may be taking a rephrase here.... but I really believe that if you are stopped for whatever infraction and THEN you turn anything positive on a brethalyzer, you should have the library of congress thrown at you, because clearly you were not in control of the situation and took the chance that your "level of impairment" was not sufficient to cause this loss of control.
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Jesus christ you sound like a spokesperson for MADD.
There are no states switching to zero tolerance, except for minors. Why don't they? Because it's not logical. Zero tolerance doesn't do any good and, by definition, would treat someone with a .03 the same as a .23, and in reality they would both end up with the same punishment under 'zero tolerence' statues. You don't see a problem with that?

And by your logic here, you're saying its OK to drive sh!tfaced as long as you don't lose control? That doesn't make sense.

Speaking of which - AND THIS IS COMING FROM MADD - http://www.madd.org/stats/1,1056,1767,00.html
While there is no "safe" amount of alcohol for drivers, most people can drink moderately and drive legally when the illegal per se limit is set at .08. A 170-pound male typically would have to consume more than four drinks in one hour on an empty stomach to reach a BAC of .08. A 137-pound female typically would have to consume three drinks in the same time frame.
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Do you understand how unreasonable what you are saying is? Anyways I'm done with this thread. Every post you have shows just how...naive you are - and your complete lack of saying 'I'll drive on 2.5 hrs of sleep' is fine but a .03 BAC is not....
 
not saying anything about it being okay to drive sh!t faced under any circumstances. The only thing I propose is that people who are caught with ANY BAC once they have already been pulled over should have the book thrown at them. They gambled with the saftey of others and lost. Now they can pay up. It's more of a practicality issue than anything... breathalyzer ignitions and that kind of nonsense is just completley unnecessary. Only throwing the book at people who are caught doing dumb things just eliminates the situation in which someone who you feel has drunken a "safe" amount but does not do anything stupid, or at least not in front of a cop, from being treated similarly. This is more than a fair enough conscession considering some of those people.... (complete drunks behind the wheel who make it home by the grace of god) will get off... To quote the site you just refrenced, beer-

....there is no "safe" amount of alcohol for drivers....
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At BACs as low as 0.02 percent, alcohol affects driving ability and crash likelihood
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Originally posted by: acemcmac
not saying anything about it being okay to drive sh!t faced under any circumstances. The only thing I propose is that people who are caught with ANY BAC once they have already been pulled over should have the book thrown at them. They gambled with the saftey of others and lost. Now they can pay up. It's more of a practicality issue than anything... breathalyzer ignitions and that kind of nonsense is just completley unnecessary. Only throwing the book at people who are caught doing dumb things just eliminates the situation in which someone who you feel has drunken a "safe" amount but does not do anything stupid, or at least not in front of a cop, from being treated similarly. This is more than a fair enough conscession considering some of those people.... (complete drunks behind the wheel who make it home by the grace of god) will get off... To quote the site you just refrenced, beer-

....there is no "safe" amount of alcohol for drivers....
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At BACs as low as 0.02 percent, alcohol affects driving ability and crash likelihood
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Being tired affects your driving ability.
Driving on bare tires affects your driving ability.
Talking on the cell phone seriously affects your driving ability.
Driving with headlights that are off angle affects your driving ability.
For that matter...
Driving with eyeglasses affects your driving ability - there are refractions involved!
Driving while listening to music also affects your ability to drive. So does chew gum.

Need I talk about speeding?
Tailgating?

Where do you draw the line? When you get behind a car you accept the risks of other drivers on the road. At BAC below .08, alcohol poses a risk not unlike speeding, tired, music, etc.
 
This idea is ridiculous. The laws are already too strict, in fact if I am drunk at a party and go out to my car to get a pack of cigarettes, that's a DUI right there. My brother got a DUI for being drunk in a parking lot because the keys were still in the ignition to keep the heat on.

I think by stating you've never driven drunk you're stating your ignorance on the issue. I've driven while totally wasted in my younger days and I'll admit that should be punished (not by years of prison, though) but I've since given that up. Now besides the few incidents where I have been wasted, I've driven countless times with a 'couple beers under my belt' and I drive perfectly fine. In fact I could argue I drive even better because with the DUI laws in place how they are now (too strict), I don't want to get pulled over. This is especially true for underage people, because the stupidity of the laws makes it so if a 20 year old has a .01 BA he is legally DUI. That's like a sip of beer.
 
Wow, I just read through most of this thread and I'm just shocked by the responses of you Jesus Jrs around here. I believe this would be a little too much over the top, just rediculous if you ask me.

I'd like to see any of you get a DUI and see if your side changes. I think it would, Deeko has several valid points and he has learned from his mistake. There isn't any reason for a jail sentence.
 
Originally posted by: Deeko
Originally posted by: DAGTA
Originally posted by: Deeko
First offense? No. Absolutely not. Hell fvcking no, thats ridiculous to even consider.

Second offense? Yes.

You're a little nuts. You're ranking a DUI, without hurting anyone, as bad as actually killing someone. Yes, the potential is there, but if you didn't do it, you shouldn't be punished for it. Not the first time anyway. End of story.
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Yeah, we should just wait until someone actually kills someone. :roll:
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So we should completely abolish handguns in this country. After all, you've got the POTENTIAL to kill someone if you've got a gun.
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That's a horrible comparison.
A better comparison would be a guy waving a gun around at a shopping mall...
 
You all can say what you like, but there are people out there that have always driven while beyond the legal limit, and have never done any damage to anyone or anything.

I'll be honest here. There are a plethora of times that I have spent the night at a friend's house because I didn't think it was safe I could drive home. On the other hand, there are also just as many times, if not more, that I have driven home fully knowing I was over the legal limit. In Tennessee, the legal limit is .08, that's like two beers for me. I've had 6 jack-and-waters and driven home, just fine. I'm more worried about getting pulled over than hurting anyone.

People react differently with alcohol. Some people can have 6 drinks and have no idea whats going on, other people, like myself, could have 6 drinks and know that I need to be careful driving, i.e, paying attention to not only myself but also other idiots on the street.

Like I said, there are times I will refuse to drive, and I would never recommend someone else doing it, but flame me if you will, done it 100's of times. I'm not the only one. If someone is driving around between 1:00am and 4:00am, chances are they aint sober.

Keep the laws the way they are for 1st time offenders, as long as they are over 21. Everyone deserves a second chance in life.

More people drink and drive than you imagine, and that's the truth.
 
Originally posted by: bamacre
You all can say what you like, but there are people out there that have always driven while beyond the legal limit, and have never done any damage to anyone or anything.

I'll be honest here. There are a plethora of times that I have spent the night at a friend's house because I didn't think it was safe I could drive home. On the other hand, there are also just as many times, if not more, that I have driven home fully knowing I was over the legal limit. In Tennessee, the legal limit is .08, that's like two beers for me. I've had 6 jack-and-waters and driven home, just fine. I'm more worried about getting pulled over than hurting anyone.

People react differently with alcohol. Some people can have 6 drinks and have no idea whats going on, other people, like myself, could have 6 drinks and know that I need to be careful driving, i.e, paying attention to not only myself but also other idiots on the street.

Like I said, there are times I will refuse to drive, and I would never recommend someone else doing it, but flame me if you will, done it 100's of times. I'm not the only one. If someone is driving around between 1:00am and 4:00am, chances are they aint sober.

Keep the laws the way they are for 1st time offenders, as long as they are over 21. Everyone deserves a second chance in life.

More people drink and drive than you imagine, and that's the truth.
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thats why I'd rather see your whole lot of compeltley reckless irresponsible jackasses thrown in jail, deported or had your licences suspended for the rest of your worthless fvking lives. I HATE YOU! :|

How long have you been stretching your second chance? Youre stretching it until the laws of probability force you to kill someone I see....
 
Originally posted by: acemcmac
not saying anything about it being okay to drive sh!t faced under any circumstances. The only thing I propose is that people who are caught with ANY BAC once they have already been pulled over should have the book thrown at them. They gambled with the saftey of others and lost.
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[/quote]

This is just absurd. I'm honestly scratching my head in wonder at the prospect that anyone could be so naive and sanctimonious. Driving after having one drink with dinner is not "gambling with the safety of others."

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, distracted driving can be as dangerous, or even more so, than DUI, yet I have yet to hear anyone advocating jail time for someone who patronizes the BK drive-through. Cars have cupholders - maybe you should write your congressman and see about getting that changed.
 
Originally posted by: acemcmac
I'm not talking about DUI checkpoints here (which I feel are unconstitutional), I'm talking about any kind of nonsense (swerving in lane... w/e) that would normally get you pulled over... or any kind of wreck where the police decide alcohol was involved. I think that manditory prison time for some obscene amount of time would really curb this as an "issue" in our society. So many people I've met, even college educated people feel that its okay to drive with a beer or two under their belts. Nobody who takes chances with alcohol and other people's lives deserves to have a life and should be marred with the mark of felon for all eternity.

I can't stand this nonsense. Who's with me?
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As usual, I'll jump in and point out that 60% of the people who drink have driven drunk at some time or other, and if you haven't, you will. I'd wager that more than half of all college students have driven drunk, and I'd bet that more than half of all "white collar" workers have as well.

For those who don't believe it, stop by your local happening bar at happy hour on friday afternoon. Count the number of people inside. Now count the number of cars in the parking lot.

I can't think of anyone I know under 35 that has NOT driven drunk (under the technicalities of the law) at some point or another in the last few years. Some of those people had 2 or 3 drinks. Some had 9-10. Some I tried to stop, some I didn't. Acting like drinking and driving is any different than any other dangerous behavior in a vehicle is absurd - and there is no shortage of other ways to be dangerous in a car.

Why do we have bars with parking lots if driving drunk is illegal?

 
Originally posted by: flot
Originally posted by: acemcmac
I'm not talking about DUI checkpoints here (which I feel are unconstitutional), I'm talking about any kind of nonsense (swerving in lane... w/e) that would normally get you pulled over... or any kind of wreck where the police decide alcohol was involved. I think that manditory prison time for some obscene amount of time would really curb this as an "issue" in our society. So many people I've met, even college educated people feel that its okay to drive with a beer or two under their belts. Nobody who takes chances with alcohol and other people's lives deserves to have a life and should be marred with the mark of felon for all eternity.

I can't stand this nonsense. Who's with me?
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As usual, I'll jump in and point out that 60% of the people who drink have driven drunk at some time or other, and if you haven't, you will. I'd wager that more than half of all college students have driven drunk, and I'd bet that more than half of all "white collar" workers have as well.

For those who don't believe it, stop by your local happening bar at happy hour on friday afternoon. Count the number of people inside. Now count the number of cars in the parking lot.

I can't think of anyone I know under 35 that has NOT driven drunk (under the technicalities of the law) at some point or another in the last few years. Some of those people had 2 or 3 drinks. Some had 9-10. Some I tried to stop, some I didn't. Acting like drinking and driving is any different than any other dangerous behavior in a vehicle is absurd - and there is no shortage of other ways to be dangerous in a car.

Why do we have bars with parking lots if driving drunk is illegal?
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I sure do hope you're wrong about how many people drive drunk. I'd hate to have another reason to have to lower my expectations of "john doe american"
 
Flot's proposal for Drinking and Driving laws:

If anyone had any sense when making these laws, there would be a very reasonable staggered system.

IF you get pulled over:
0.08 gets you a $250 ticket
0.10 gets you a $350 ticket
0.12 gets you a $500 ticket
0.15 and over where you may actually be a danger to other people has real ramifications

If this is how it worked, I'd be 100% in favor of the laws. I'd also bet they might ACTUALLY make people think twice about drinking and driving, I stopped speeding because I simply couldn't afford to keep doing it. The risk of "getting a DUI" is such a nebulous absurd thing, that all I know is that it would be "something bad" and I'd call a lawyer and assume he would get me out of it. If the above system was in place I'd be like "no way man, I'm stopping at 3 drinks tonight, I don't want to end up with a damn $350 ticket!" as opposed to the "well I'm f*cked anyway, so might as well have another!" mentality we have now. (and don't think for a second that isn't how it works)

I can say with absolute certainty that I am still a better driver after 3 drinks than some people I know. Hell, I know people who average more than 1 accident a year - dead sober. Does drinking impare your judgement? Of course. Does it slow your reaction time? Yes. Is it any different than having a heated argument on your cell phone? No. Different from eating fast food and trying not to drop a pickle into your lap while you make a left hand turn in traffic? No. Different from letting some 75 year old geezer drive his 72 caddy down the street? No.

 
Originally posted by: acemcmac
I sure do hope you're wrong about how many people drive drunk. I'd hate to have another reason to have to lower my expectations of "john doe american"
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How old are you? Have you ever been to a bar? Go to downtown philly at 2 am on a friday or saturday night and sit outside of a parking lot.

6 out of 10 people who get into those cars (8/10 of those who get in alone) are drunk. That's why they are leaving, because most bars close at 2 am. And we are talking about *hundreds* of people, driving around your city, drunk, all leaving the same place at the same time.

Oh, the horror. It's amazing they don't all crash into each other, isn't it?


 
Originally posted by: flot
Originally posted by: acemcmac
I sure do hope you're wrong about how many people drive drunk. I'd hate to have another reason to have to lower my expectations of "john doe american"
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How old are you? Have you ever been to a bar? Go to downtown philly at 2 am on a friday or saturday night and sit outside of a parking lot.

6 out of 10 people who get into those cars (8/10 of those who get in alone) are drunk.
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LOL! I'm too afraid to drive on the back roads of chester county after midnight thursday-saturday. These drunken blue collars, college kids and SUV driving MORONS can't even stay on their side of the yellow lines SOBER on my favorite back roads :|

I have only been to bars in Europe and the Carribean. I prefer entertaining at home. It's a shorter walk for a chick and I to stumble from my couch to my bedroom than it is from some bar to my room. :wine:

speeding carries worse penalties.... which is worse, 10 over in a 65 or 0.08 😕
 
Originally posted by: acemcmac

speeding carries worse penalties.... which is worse, 10 over in a 65 or 0.08 😕
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How about 37 over in a 70? $350 fine and 4 points, or no points if you elect traffic school.

Now, which is more dangerous, Mr. Morality?
 
Originally posted by: lobadobadingdong
only problem with the OP is that we already have toooo many people in prison now as it is. who would pay for the extra cells and manpower to guard them?
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That's an easy one

  1. let the pot heads out
  1. make DWI mary jane same punishemnt as alcohol
  1. garnish the wages of people imprisoned under this law, after they're out to pay for the costs of their "Treatment" :thumbsup:

I would be willing to pay an extra 5-10% of my paycheck for more intelligent foreign and substance control policies :beer:

vetrans shouldn't be homeless either :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: flot
Originally posted by: acemcmac

speeding carries worse penalties.... which is worse, 10 over in a 65 or 0.08 😕
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How about 37 over in a 70? $350 fine and 4 points, or no points if you elect traffic school.

Now, which is more dangerous, Mr. Morality?
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Actually.... considering the market penetration of cars that can comfortably exceed 90mph without being near redline.... I'd say its a moot point....

I don't know what state you live in... but I'm sure that here in PA, neither DWI or that level of speeding will come with fines and fees anywhere less than the obscene.... I know that the DWI gets over 1500$ in a lot of cases because of the post court charges for treatment and psychological testing
 
I'm tired of working wrecks where alcohol is involved and the drunkard is fine but the other parties are seriously injured or killed.

I'm tired of working wrecks where alcohol is involved and children are injured / killed.

I'm tired of working wrecks where alcohol is involved and I have to deal with your belligerent drunk a$$ telling me that I better not touch you or you?re going to sue my department, while you breathe your nasty beer breath in my face and spit at my paramedics. I'd be more than happy to leave you to bleed to death on the side of the highway but I'd get repremanded so I'll strap you down to a back board and send you on to the hospital so you can do it again someday soon.


Ride along with a busy FD on a Friday or Saturday night and you?ll have a different opinion on drunk driving.
 
Originally posted by: wallsfd949
I'm tired of working wrecks where alcohol is involved and the drunkard is fine but the other parties are seriously injured or killed.

I'm tired of working wrecks where alcohol is involved and children are injured / killed.

I'm tired of working wrecks where alcohol is involved and I have to deal with your belligerent drunk a$$ telling me that I better not touch you or you?re going to sue my department, while you breathe your nasty beer breath in my face and spit at my paramedics. I'd be more than happy to leave you to bleed to death on the side of the highway but I'd get repremanded so I'll strap you down to a back board and send you on to the hospital so you can do it again someday soon.


Ride along with a busy FD on a Friday or Saturday night and you?ll have a different opinion on drunk driving.
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:beer: Sometimes your profession really pisses me off (our local voulnteer FD is a frat house with fancy vehciles and a governemnt sanctioned house)... but then I remember that you do thinks like that too. Thanks man... dont know what society would do without you guys :beer:
 
Originally posted by: bamacre

Keep the laws the way they are for 1st time offenders, as long as they are over 21. Everyone deserves a second chance in life.
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Tell that to the families of the victims we scrape of the rodway. 🙁
 
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