Poll: Zero tolerance for DUI followed by manditory prison time measured in years

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

It's a very easily preventable mistake. In fact, it should NEVER happen in the first place. There is no need to give a 'first time warning'.

There are mistakes like, "Oh crap, I backed into your mailbox. I'm sorry."

Something like, "Dude, I got trashed at this killer frat party last night! I don't remember getting home but there's blood on the front of my car this morning," is a bit more than just a 'mistake'.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

Okay, so what part of "Your analogy got taken out behind the woodshed and violated six ways from Sunday" are you disagreeing with?

- M4H

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

It's a very easily preventable mistake. In fact, it should NEVER happen in the first place. There is no need to give a 'first time warning'.

There are mistakes like, "Oh crap, I backed into your mailbox. I'm sorry."

Something like, "Dude, I got trashed at this killer frat party last night! I don't remember getting home but there's blood on the front of my car this morning," is a bit more than just a 'mistake'.

Yes, you just illustrated my point. Thank you.

Drinking and Driving without hurting anyone <<<<< Drinking and Driving WITH hurting someone

 

[midwestfisherman]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

A mistake? BULLSH*T!! Try, it's a concious decision that one makes to get behind the wheel while under the influence. With the massive education that is done through the schools and through the media, if someone of driving age doesn't know it's wrong to drink and drive, then they don't have the common sense enough to even deserve a drivers license.

Excusing willful acts of of breaking the law by saying "it was a mistake" is pure stupidity!!

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

Okay, so what part of "Your analogy got taken out behind the woodshed and violated six ways from Sunday" are you disagreeing with?

- M4H

Because, just because you can come up with reasons to own a gun(tho its HARDLY a necessity), doesn't mean you can't kill people with it. Very easily. Thats what guns are designed to do. End life. Does that mean if you have a gun you're gonna kill someone? Of course not. Just like just because you got one DUI does not mean you killed someone.

 

[midwestfisherman]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

It's a very easily preventable mistake. In fact, it should NEVER happen in the first place. There is no need to give a 'first time warning'.

There are mistakes like, "Oh crap, I backed into your mailbox. I'm sorry."

Something like, "Dude, I got trashed at this killer frat party last night! I don't remember getting home but there's blood on the front of my car this morning," is a bit more than just a 'mistake'.

Yes, you just illustrated my point. Thank you.

Drinking and Driving without hurting anyone <<<<< Drinking and Driving WITH hurting someone

Well by your last comparison, you've just comfirmed that you're an idiot!

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: midwestfisherman

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

A mistake? BULLSH*T!! Try, it's a concious decision that one makes to get behind the wheel while under the influence. With the massive education that is done through the schools and through the media, if someone of driving age doesn't know it's wrong to drink and drive, then they don't have the common sense enough to even deserve a drivers license.

Excusing willful acts of of breaking the law by saying "it was a mistake" is pure stupidity!!

Define a mistake for me, if a mistake isn't willfully doing something wrong.

You are still missing the point, that if you didn't hurt anyone, you didn't hurt anyone, end of story, and you shouldn't be punished as if you had.

 

[CrazyDe1]

Originally posted by: midwestfisherman

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

A mistake? BULLSH*T!! Try, it's a concious decision that one makes to get behind the wheel while under the influence. With the massive education that is done through the schools and through the media, if someone of driving age doesn't know it's wrong to drink and drive, then they don't have the common sense enough to even deserve a drivers license.

Excusing willful acts of of breaking the law by saying "it was a mistake" is pure stupidity!!

More like massive misinformation that is taught by schools and media.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: midwestfisherman

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

It's a very easily preventable mistake. In fact, it should NEVER happen in the first place. There is no need to give a 'first time warning'.

There are mistakes like, "Oh crap, I backed into your mailbox. I'm sorry."

Something like, "Dude, I got trashed at this killer frat party last night! I don't remember getting home but there's blood on the front of my car this morning," is a bit more than just a 'mistake'.

Yes, you just illustrated my point. Thank you.

Drinking and Driving without hurting anyone <<<<< Drinking and Driving WITH hurting someone

Well by your last comparison, you've just comfirmed that you're an idiot!

HOW???

I know someone who got a first offense DUI, and killed 2 people. He is going to jail for 15 years. This is a perfectly fine punishment.

Are you saying someone who DIDNT SO MUCH AS SCRATCH a person deserves the same punishment?

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

Okay, so what part of "Your analogy got taken out behind the woodshed and violated six ways from Sunday" are you disagreeing with?

- M4H

Because, just because you can come up with reasons to own a gun(tho its HARDLY a necessity), doesn't mean you can't kill people with it. Very easily. Thats what guns are designed to do. End life. Does that mean if you have a gun you're gonna kill someone? Of course not. Just like just because you got one DUI does not mean you killed someone.

Ok, I'll attempt to spell it out for you.

With a gun... if you kill someone with a gun, you made a conscious decision to shoot that person with the intent to harm him/her. There's no "it was a mistake" involved.

Now, with driving while drunk, you are saying, "I know I shouldn't be driving, but I'm too selfish to care. If I accidentily kill someone because I'm too drunk to control my vehicle properly, oh well, it's a mistake."

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

Okay, so what part of "Your analogy got taken out behind the woodshed and violated six ways from Sunday" are you disagreeing with?

- M4H

Because, just because you can come up with reasons to own a gun(tho its HARDLY a necessity), doesn't mean you can't kill people with it. Very easily. Thats what guns are designed to do. End life. Does that mean if you have a gun you're gonna kill someone? Of course not. Just like just because you got one DUI does not mean you killed someone.

Ok, I'll attempt to spell it out for you.

With a gun... if you kill someone with a gun, you made a conscious decision to shoot that person with the intent to harm him/her. There's no "it was a mistake" involved.

Now, with driving while drunk, you are saying, "I know I shouldn't be driving, but I'm too selfish to care. If I accidentily kill someone because I'm too drunk to control my vehicle properly, oh well, it's a mistake."

Once more. *sigh*. I am talking about people who don't hurt anyone. My keys are wearing out from typing this sentence, but if you don't hurt someone, you shouldn't be punished like those who have.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

It's a very easily preventable mistake. In fact, it should NEVER happen in the first place. There is no need to give a 'first time warning'.

There are mistakes like, "Oh crap, I backed into your mailbox. I'm sorry."

Something like, "Dude, I got trashed at this killer frat party last night! I don't remember getting home but there's blood on the front of my car this morning," is a bit more than just a 'mistake'.

Yes, you just illustrated my point. Thank you.

Drinking and Driving without hurting anyone <<<<< Drinking and Driving WITH hurting someone

I see you missed my point.
Hitting a mailbox, WHILE SOBER, is a mistake.

Hitting a person because you were drunk was a willful act of negligence.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

It's a very easily preventable mistake. In fact, it should NEVER happen in the first place. There is no need to give a 'first time warning'.

There are mistakes like, "Oh crap, I backed into your mailbox. I'm sorry."

Something like, "Dude, I got trashed at this killer frat party last night! I don't remember getting home but there's blood on the front of my car this morning," is a bit more than just a 'mistake'.

Yes, you just illustrated my point. Thank you.

Drinking and Driving without hurting anyone <<<<< Drinking and Driving WITH hurting someone

I see you missed my point.
Hitting a mailbox, WHILE SOBER, is a mistake.

Hitting a person because you were drunk was a willful act of negligence.

yep. Its a good thing I never said that if you hit a person you should get off easy, eh?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

This is one of those topic that brings out the most holier-than-thou instincts in some people, to a degree I find just amazing.

I imagine just about every person (or at least every American) who drinks at all has driven under the influence of too much alcohol at some point. This is bad behavior, and appropriately illegal, but it's hardly the crime of the century. Statistically, distracted driving (e.g., while eating or talking on the phone) and tired driving are more dangerous than DUI. This is no excuse for driving drunk, but I think it's stupid to treat it as a hanging offense.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Deeko
HOW???

I know someone who got a first offense DUI, and killed 2 people. He is going to jail for 15 years. This is a perfectly fine punishment.

Are you saying someone who DIDNT SO MUCH AS SCRATCH a person deserves the same punishment?

It should have NEVER happened. He/she should never have been driving drunk and those two people would probably still be alive. Stronger punishments for first time offenders of DUI, regardless if they hurt someone, may help save lives by keeping more idiots off the road.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

Okay, so what part of "Your analogy got taken out behind the woodshed and violated six ways from Sunday" are you disagreeing with?

- M4H

Because, just because you can come up with reasons to own a gun(tho its HARDLY a necessity), doesn't mean you can't kill people with it. Very easily. Thats what guns are designed to do. End life. Does that mean if you have a gun you're gonna kill someone? Of course not. Just like just because you got one DUI does not mean you killed someone.

Ok, I'll attempt to spell it out for you.

With a gun... if you kill someone with a gun, you made a conscious decision to shoot that person with the intent to harm him/her. There's no "it was a mistake" involved.

Now, with driving while drunk, you are saying, "I know I shouldn't be driving, but I'm too selfish to care. If I accidentily kill someone because I'm too drunk to control my vehicle properly, oh well, it's a mistake."

Once more. *sigh*. I am talking about people who don't hurt anyone. My keys are wearing out from typing this sentence, but if you don't hurt someone, you shouldn't be punished like those who have.

I was driving (while drunk, of course) past that same school again, doing 80 in a 20 with no seatbelt and hanging my Uzi out of the driver's-side window. My finger slipped and hit the trigger and I fired off a few errant shots across the playground. In my haste to pull the gun back inside I swerved across the sidewalk where the pre-K kids were, but they got out of the way in time. I cut down a mailbox though.

It was all a mistake. Why are there men in black suits chasing me now?

- M4H

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: DonVito
This is one of those topic that brings out the most holier-than-thou instincts in some people, to a degree I find just amazing.

I imagine just about every person (or at least every American) who drinks at all has driven under the influence of too much alcohol at some point. This is bad behavior, and appropriately illegal, but it's hardly the crime of the century. Statistically, distracted driving (e.g., while eating or talking on the phone) and tired driving are more dangerous than DUI. This is no excuse for driving drunk, but I think it's stupid to treat it as a hanging offense.

I drink. I've never driven while intoxicated. It has nothing to do with being holier-than-thou, it has everything to do with being a selfish prick.

 

[Deeko]

Nope, it shouldn't ever happen, but if it does and they don't hurt anyone, explain to me how they deserve excessive time in jail. You realize thousands of people drink and drive every day, don't get caught, and don't hurt anyone. Am I saying they were justified in doing it? No, its still wrong. But its not like they are actually killing someone. You are absolutely out of line to propose this kind of a sentence for someone who DID NOT HURT ANYONE.

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Deeko

Once more. *sigh*. I am talking about people who don't hurt anyone. My keys are wearing out from typing this sentence, but if you don't hurt someone, you shouldn't be punished like those who have.

The point is, those people made a decision to put other people in danger. So what if they didn't hurt someone THAT TIME? They still put a lot of people in danger intentionally.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: DonVito
This is one of those topic that brings out the most holier-than-thou instincts in some people, to a degree I find just amazing.

I imagine just about every person (or at least every American) who drinks at all has driven under the influence of too much alcohol at some point. This is bad behavior, and appropriately illegal, but it's hardly the crime of the century. Statistically, distracted driving (e.g., while eating or talking on the phone) and tired driving are more dangerous than DUI. This is no excuse for driving drunk, but I think it's stupid to treat it as a hanging offense.

I drink. I've never driven while intoxicated. It has nothing to do with being holier-than-thou, it has everything to do with not being a dumb motherfvcker.

Edited to apply to me.

- M4H

 

[DAGTA]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Nope, it shouldn't ever happen, but if it does and they don't hurt anyone, explain to me how they deserve excessive time in jail. You realize thousands of people drink and drive every day, don't get caught, and don't hurt anyone. Am I saying they were justified in doing it? No, its still wrong. But its not like they are actually killing someone. You are absolutely out of line to propose this kind of a sentence for someone who DID NOT HURT ANYONE.

So, if I come into your home someday armed with a gun. I hold your family hostage for hours, threatening to kill you all. Then, I leave without actually harming anyone.

I don't deserve a harsh punishment since all I did was put you in danger but I DID NOT HURT ANYONE.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Deeko
I already said no, there isn't. Its a mistake people make.

Okay, so what part of "Your analogy got taken out behind the woodshed and violated six ways from Sunday" are you disagreeing with?

- M4H

Because, just because you can come up with reasons to own a gun(tho its HARDLY a necessity), doesn't mean you can't kill people with it. Very easily. Thats what guns are designed to do. End life. Does that mean if you have a gun you're gonna kill someone? Of course not. Just like just because you got one DUI does not mean you killed someone.

Ok, I'll attempt to spell it out for you.

With a gun... if you kill someone with a gun, you made a conscious decision to shoot that person with the intent to harm him/her. There's no "it was a mistake" involved.

Now, with driving while drunk, you are saying, "I know I shouldn't be driving, but I'm too selfish to care. If I accidentily kill someone because I'm too drunk to control my vehicle properly, oh well, it's a mistake."

Once more. *sigh*. I am talking about people who don't hurt anyone. My keys are wearing out from typing this sentence, but if you don't hurt someone, you shouldn't be punished like those who have.

I was driving (while drunk, of course) past that same school again, doing 80 in a 20 with no seatbelt and hanging my Uzi out of the driver's-side window. My finger slipped and hit the trigger and I fired off a few errant shots across the playground. In my haste to pull the gun back inside I swerved across the sidewalk where the pre-K kids were, but they got out of the way in time. I cut down a mailbox though.

It was all a mistake. Why are there men in black suits chasing me now?

- M4H

Yea, you're right, I concede. Everyone that drinks and drives does exactly that.

Think with logic here. Like DonVito said, driving is a deadly risk. There are a LOT of people out there who are in no condition to drive, be they tired, angry, distracted, drunk, high, etc. Yes, the risk is much higher if you're drunk, but anytime you drive, ANYONE is capable of getting in an accident and killing someone. If you drink and drive, you get punished. The punishments today are fine, what you guys think is "acceptable punishment" is ludicrous. Its like saying people that get in a fight should go to jail for years. After all, you never know when a fight will escalate to a deadly level. Its possible.

Go ahead, rip my analogy, but you know I'm right and are just too "big" a person to admit it. Drinking and driving is wrong, but if you get caught and you didn't hurt anyone, you dont deserve excessive jail, and thats that.

 

[toant103]

they need to tech people how to drink and drive

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

Originally posted by: Deeko
Nope, it shouldn't ever happen, but if it does and they don't hurt anyone, explain to me how they deserve excessive time in jail. You realize thousands of people drink and drive every day, don't get caught, and don't hurt anyone. Am I saying they were justified in doing it? No, its still wrong. But its not like they are actually killing someone. You are absolutely out of line to propose this kind of a sentence for someone who DID NOT HURT ANYONE.

So, if I come into your home someday armed with a gun. I hold your family hostage for hours, threatening to kill you all. Then, I leave without actually harming anyone.

I don't deserve a harsh punishment since all I did was put you in danger but I DID NOT HURT ANYONE.

Your analogies are 10x worse than mine.

You've got a whole LOT more chance of hurting someone when you're holding them at gunpoint than when you're driving drunk. I don't think you realize how many people do it and get away with it.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: DAGTA

I drink. I've never driven while intoxicated. It has nothing to do with being holier-than-thou, it has everything to do with being a selfish prick.

:roll:

This kind of melodramatic rhetoric helps nobody.

I am certainly not defending drunk driving (nor is anyone else here, as far as I can see). That said, it is not, absent aggravating circumstances, a felony-level offense, and shouldn't be treated as one IMO. My mother, who's been a judge for 20 years, feels even more strongly than I do that the whole cracking-down-on-DUI push is a colossal waste of the court's time, and of jail cells that could be used for violent offenders.