Poll: Waiting to kiss until you are married!

[Smartazz]

wow, a lot of people voted yes, more than I expected.

 

[Nightfall]

Originally posted by: HotChic
I know some folks that did, and they're perfectly happy going on their seventh year of marriage. Whatever works for you.

I find it really funny that there's a large societal push not to pass judgment on extreme promiscuity, but it's fine to pass judgment on extreme monogamy. Not that anyone in this thread has been judgmental so far, but it's only a matter of time.

If there is a large societal push to pass judgement on anything, its being promiscuious. You can thank the current conservative administration in power right now for that. Of course, it could all be related to the fact that I live in a very conservative area as well so I won't discount that.

I can imagine there are extremes on both sides where people will pass judgement onto others based on their lifestyles. As you said, whatever works for you. Personally, I thnk waiting to kiss is a little extreme, but thats just me.

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: Smartazz
wow, a lot of people voted yes, more than I expected.

I would just assume the poll isn't scientific and people voted yes for sheer shits and giggles.

 

[judasmachine]

I blew that in the fourth grade...

 

[theprodigalrebel]

I'm muslim and even I find this hillarious!!!

 

[DaWhim]

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: Smartazz
wow, a lot of people voted yes, more than I expected.

I would just assume the poll isn't scientific and people voted yes for sheer shits and giggles.

poll is for statistics, not scientific.

 

[AreaCode707]

Originally posted by: Nightfall

Originally posted by: HotChic
I know some folks that did, and they're perfectly happy going on their seventh year of marriage. Whatever works for you.

I find it really funny that there's a large societal push not to pass judgment on extreme promiscuity, but it's fine to pass judgment on extreme monogamy. Not that anyone in this thread has been judgmental so far, but it's only a matter of time.

If there is a large societal push to pass judgement on anything, its being promiscuious. You can thank the current conservative administration in power right now for that. Of course, it could all be related to the fact that I live in a very conservative area as well so I won't discount that.

I can imagine there are extremes on both sides where people will pass judgement onto others based on their lifestyles. As you said, whatever works for you. Personally, I thnk waiting to kiss is a little extreme, but thats just me.

It would be interesting to trade places with you. I'm a West Coast conservative (I use the word conservative loosely - I have a variety of opinions but the larger portion could probably be cast as conservative) and Seattle and north of San Francisco are my areas. Not so conservative.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: B00ne
Thats nuts, I think you should'nt even marry before you have lived together.

Let's see our (Gen X) parents believed in free love and the divorce rate among them is almost 2/3 leading to cascading problems stemming from broken homes.

Guess what, society tried it your way and, uh, it didn't work.

Free love and living together before marriage are not one in the same.

Care to try again?

Sure, how about we late the logic train this time.

To think that you can determine if you want to marry somebody by experimenting with living with them means, in order to find the exact person you should marry, you need to live with every woman alive to see which responds most favorably to living with you. Or just figure on hopefully coming close enough with a handful of tries. And then, after marriage, wondering if you made the right decision because after an extended time together something comes up. And what if one of you changes as a person.

While typical of how the typical idiot goes about it cause he lacks the fortitude to do it the right way, it's nonetheless, idiotic.

Wow, the stupid is strong with this one.

I lived with one woman prior to marriage and she is the woman I married. Guess what, I kissed dozens of women prior to the woman I married and I slept with more than a few of them as well. What makes your way right and mine wrong? Because some book that was written thousands of years ago and translated hundreds and hundreds of times says so? Give me a fvcking break...:roll:

BTW-I've been married for 14 years. How long have you been married?

 

[LongCoolMother]

:roll: for a community who criticizes christians for being intolerant, you guys sure are tolerant!

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
:roll: for a community who criticizes christians for being intolerant, you guys sure are tolerant!

Yeah, some jackass calling me an idiot for living with my wife before marriage. That's religious tolerance at it's finest. :thumbsup:

 

[fishmonger12]

the problem with christianity is by its very nature it can't stay out of other people's business. the whole religion is concerned with helping other people. that's all well and good, but many interpret this as a reason to go annoy people into converting.

that's the only beef i've ever had against christians. as far as the topic, well, i don't see anything wrong with a monogomous sexual relationship before marriage... and thus don't see anything wrong with a monogomous kissing relationship before marriage : |

 

[reverend boltron]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
:roll: for a community who criticizes christians for being intolerant, you guys sure are tolerant!

Yeah, some jackass calling me an idiot for living with my wife before marriage. That's religious tolerance at it's finest. :thumbsup:

On a side note, did you know that the probability is statistically higher for people who lived together prior to marriage to get divorced? They think the reasoning behind it is because once you have lived together, the marriage isn't really that much of a change, so the divorce seems trivial.

Another side note, the divorce rate for Christians is higher than for athiests.

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

It's crap like this that make me want to dump christianity all together and become an atheist.

 

[zebano]

Eh whatever floats your boat. Good luck finding a girl that subscribes to that theory.

 

[Lola]

That seems pretty... wow. If that is what they want.
Sorry if i am sounding close minded but thats how i feel.

 

[reverend boltron]

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
It's crap like this that make me want to dump christianity all together and become an atheist.

If you honestly feel that way, you need to take a long look at your faith and find out where you really stand. I can understand you not agreeing with people who do that, but saying that you're going to forsake God and turn your back to Him is something that determines your salvation. Hebrews 6:4 is a good place for you to start reading in the bible man. Apostacy isn't something that you can take back.

 

[DainBramaged]

No

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: reverend boltron
I never said it was a sin to kiss before marriage. I said that it was my own personal conviction and that it is something that I am doing because I don't want to open that door again. Jesus said that if you look lustfully toward a woman you are an adulterer, and if you hate your brother then you are a murderer. You should read what I wrote next time before you begin to say that I am being legalistic.

Galations chapter 2 says that the law is supposed to be a tutor to us. The fact that Christians are under a new covenant, with grace from God and the blood of Jesus covering our sins doesn't mean that we can go out and sin like crazy because grace abounds, it means, we learn the law, and begin to understand it and what it means. That way we won't continue to live by mans traditions and forsake God's commandments.

Jesus says that if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. If you like to speed and you drive a fast car, get rid of it. If you struggle with sex, then don't put yourself in that situation.

I understand where you are coming from when you say not to make it a rule and fall under the legalism of things, because once that happens, you are missing the point, no longer dependent on God, but upon yourself. The bible says to be holy as He is holy. If kissing is going to be a "gateway" for me to wander away from God, then I will do whatever it is that I have to do to stop that. I understand the forgiveness, and mercy and grace that we have through the blood, but at the same time, I know from experience that it never pays to stray (that isn't saying that I won't go and hang out with non-Christians, or that I won't talk to peopel who don't know God. Or that I will only hang out with myself, because that's missing the point too. It is saying that if I know that something causes me to struggle, I will cut it off).

I agree with what you say, but how you say it seems to point that you do believe it is sinful. Again, I said I would only kiss before marriage if it was edifying towards me as well as my SO (i.e. - it did not lead me to stray), then no worries. My own personal conviction tell me that I won't kiss before marriage, but there may be a case where it would be edifying. If you knew me personally, you would see that in many ways I am pretty conservative. But the minute I say that "kissing will lead you astray", I will make it law and I will judge others based on my own convictions. G-d is the only person that can judge a person's actions and heart. Does that means I should go on sinning? "By no means."

In my own life I would not want to go strolling around the streets in a loincloth, or have my SO run around bare breast. But you go to some 3rd world countries and this is a normal practice and doesn't even slightly hint at moral/sexual deviancy -- so my personal convictions are my own and only G-d can judge me (that means I can not judge others). I can definitely rebuke a fellow Christian when it is apparent (or I am lead to tell them to turn away from sin) they are backsliding, but I still cannot judge them, because I know that no one (especially myself) really deserves that relationship with G-d. In other countries, kissing on the lips in a sign of intimacy, but not sexual intimacy. If I was there, I would become as the "Romans". I am guided by "Grace" not by "Law" (this is meat, not milk theology). I could go on about being lead by the Spirit and a whole bunch of theology, philosophy, metaphysics.... but I will stop proselytizing now because it sounds too hokey for most people to fully comprehend.

 

[reverend boltron]

Originally posted by: DaShen

Originally posted by: reverend boltron
I never said it was a sin to kiss before marriage. I said that it was my own personal conviction and that it is something that I am doing because I don't want to open that door again. Jesus said that if you look lustfully toward a woman you are an adulterer, and if you hate your brother then you are a murderer. You should read what I wrote next time before you begin to say that I am being legalistic.

Galations chapter 2 says that the law is supposed to be a tutor to us. The fact that Christians are under a new covenant, with grace from God and the blood of Jesus covering our sins doesn't mean that we can go out and sin like crazy because grace abounds, it means, we learn the law, and begin to understand it and what it means. That way we won't continue to live by mans traditions and forsake God's commandments.

Jesus says that if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off. If your right eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. If you like to speed and you drive a fast car, get rid of it. If you struggle with sex, then don't put yourself in that situation.

I understand where you are coming from when you say not to make it a rule and fall under the legalism of things, because once that happens, you are missing the point, no longer dependent on God, but upon yourself. The bible says to be holy as He is holy. If kissing is going to be a "gateway" for me to wander away from God, then I will do whatever it is that I have to do to stop that. I understand the forgiveness, and mercy and grace that we have through the blood, but at the same time, I know from experience that it never pays to stray (that isn't saying that I won't go and hang out with non-Christians, or that I won't talk to peopel who don't know God. Or that I will only hang out with myself, because that's missing the point too. It is saying that if I know that something causes me to struggle, I will cut it off).

I agree with what you say, but how you say it seems to point that you do believe it is sinful. Again, I said I would only kiss before marriage if it was edifying towards me as well as my SO (i.e. - it did not lead me to stray), then no worries. My own personal conviction tell me that I won't kiss before marriage, but there may be a case where it would be edifying. If you knew me personally, you would see that in many ways I am pretty conservative. But the minute I say that "kissing will lead you astray", I will make it law and I will judge others based on my own convictions. G-d is the only person that can judge a person's actions and heart. Does that means I should go on sinning? "By no means."

In my own life I would not want to go strolling around the streets in a loincloth, or have my SO run around bare breast. But you go to some 3rd world countries and this is a normal practice and doesn't even slightly hint at moral/sexual deviancy -- so my personal convictions are my own and only G-d can judge me (that means I can not judge others). I can definitely rebuke a fellow Christian when it is apparent (or I am lead to tell them to turn away from sin) they are backsliding, but I still cannot judge them, because I know that no one (especially myself) really deserves that relationship with G-d. In other countries, kissing on the lips in a sign of intimacy, but not sexual intimacy. If I was there, I would become as the "Romans". I am guided by "Grace" not by "Law" (this is meat, not milk theology). I could go on about being lead by the Spirit and a whole bunch of theology, philosophy, metaphysics.... but I will stop proselytizing now because it sounds too hokey for most people to fully comprehend.

I must be completely missing something, because I don't see why you're saying what I said was legalistic. I mean, I know what legalism is, and I know that Jesus came to set the captives free. It's the liberty that we have in the Spirit, and the liberty that we walk in. I am not under the curse of the law anymore, neither are you. I had made a vow to God though, when I said that I wouldn't kiss. The bible says that we aren't supposed to break our vows. It is better that we would not make them, than it is for us to break them. That is something that I hold dear to me. If I were to forsake the commandments that God gave me for the sake of my righteousness then something is wrong. Look at the parable of the good Sumaritan. The priest went on the other side of the road and didn't help the injured man for the sake of becoming ceremonially unclean. In Isaiah it talks about (66:5) that hypocracy and missing the point. I don't really see a situation where I might be edifying someone by kissing them, but I do understand where you are talking about the legalism in being rigid and not bending on things because it goes from having the Spirit of God lead you, to having your own set ways lead you. But at the same time, look at the Nazarite oath and other vows that people made to the Lord.

I think we might have a misunderstanding with the definition of sin. There is a difference between iniquity and sin. Iniquity is the propensitity to sin. Sin is the actual act of sinning. So for me, I have identified that my iniquity lies in the flesh, so I decided to cut it off. If my right hand causes me to sin, cut it off. My lips were causing me to sin. They were my iniquity.

 

[dmw16]

this seems a little odd to me. I understand waiting to have sex (although I cant say I did and I am fine with that). But people seem to have odd ideas about intamacy. I dont think you get married and all of a sudden have intamacy. It needs to be built through talking and sharing emotionally, but also through physical contact. A bad sex/intimate life will ruin a marriage, so while I can see waiitng on sex if thats your thing, you need to make sure you are sexually compatible. Oh well. I voted "you're a tool cuz a) I think waiting to kiss is a silly idea and b) these religious threads usually get outta hand.

 

[reverend boltron]

Originally posted by: dmw16
this seems a little odd to me. I understand waiting to have sex (although I cant say I did and I am fine with that). But people seem to have odd ideas about intamacy. I dont think you get married and all of a sudden have intamacy. It needs to be built through talking and sharing emotionally, but also through physical contact. A bad sex/intimate life will ruin a marriage, so while I can see waiitng on sex if thats your thing, you need to make sure you are sexually compatible. Oh well. I voted "you're a tool cuz a) I think waiting to kiss is a silly idea and b) these religious threads usually get outta hand.

That is a very biblical principle you know. A lot of people think the Puritans were prudes, but they thought it was a sin to not have sex frequently. The bible says that you're supposed to regularly have sex with your spouse.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: reverend boltron
I must be completely missing something, because I don't see why you're saying what I said was legalistic. I mean, I know what legalism is, and I know that Jesus came to set the captives free. It's the liberty that we have in the Spirit, and the liberty that we walk in. I am not under the curse of the law anymore, neither are you. I had made a vow to God though, when I said that I wouldn't kiss. The bible says that we aren't supposed to break our vows. It is better that we would not make them, than it is for us to break them. That is something that I hold dear to me. If I were to forsake the commandments that God gave me for the sake of my righteousness then something is wrong. Look at the parable of the good Sumaritan. The priest went on the other side of the road and didn't help the injured man for the sake of becoming ceremonially unclean. In Isaiah it talks about (66:5) that hypocracy and missing the point. I don't really see a situation where I might be edifying someone by kissing them, but I do understand where you are talking about the legalism in being rigid and not bending on things because it goes from having the Spirit of God lead you, to having your own set ways lead you. But at the same time, look at the Nazarite oath and other vows that people made to the Lord.

I think we might have a misunderstanding with the definition of sin. There is a difference between iniquity and sin. Iniquity is the propensitity to sin. Sin is the actual act of sinning. So for me, I have identified that my iniquity lies in the flesh, so I decided to cut it off. If my right hand causes me to sin, cut it off. My lips were causing me to sin. They were my iniquity.

I would rather not have this digress into a pissing match on who knows more scripture, but I would like to share this.

Matthew 22:36-38 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment.

If you look at 1 John 1-2, it say that no one who claims to know G-d, yet does not follow his commandments, does not actually know G-d. I paraphrase because I would rather not throw scriptures at people. 1 John 4, tells us how we are to accomplish this. Loving each other.

If you read Romans again, the law is dead (meaning we are not tied to the law anymore). Should we go on sinning? By no means. But how does Sanctification come into play?

You read the Sermon on the Mount (BTW Ghandi thought that this was the most riveting philosophy on life he had ever read, too bad "Christians" mucked it up for him), as well as Jesus talking to the Pharisees (who made up "laws" specifically for the same reasons you stated above), you find that the "heart" or intent of the person is just as important, but also that we cannot follow the "law" (i.e. - we fail). That is why we depend on Grace, and then submitting our will to G-d, then being filled with the Holy Spirit (very metaphysical and hokey, I understand, that is why I was trying to stay away from stating this on a public forum). In this way, we are not tied to the "law", but rather tied to our relationship with G-d. I don't need to follow the "law" to consider my actions and how they will show love to others. Yes, we shouldn't sin, and sin is directly tied to law, but we can't accomplish this by making more restrictions on ourselves (that is what the Pharisees did). We accomplish this by relying on Grace and pursuing a relationship with G-d (do this and it is righteousness by faith <i.e. - G-d provides the power to not sin, not by your own doing "being lead..."> ). In this way we are Sanctified, but we still know that it is not by our own doing that we have a "righteousness by faith". Because of this, no self pride comes, because we know it is all from G-d.

I could go on and on, quote Geisler, G.K. Chesterton, C.S. Lewis, Yancey, St. Thomas Aquinas.... even scripture, but this is just an idea of what the "meat" theology IMO, that Paul was takling about. In Phil. 4, he even says he isn't there yet, because it is a process that G-d works in him to sanctify him. That he takes no pride in his accomplishments, but considers them "rubbish" (equivalent to a 4 letter word in today's standands). Anyways, I digress, there is too much that I could say, but it would be pointless. Especially on ATOT. Any more talk of this stuff, at least on my side would end up in a pissing match about who knew more, and I don't want that.

********************************

Originally posted by: reverend boltron

Originally posted by: dmw16
this seems a little odd to me. I understand waiting to have sex (although I cant say I did and I am fine with that). But people seem to have odd ideas about intamacy. I dont think you get married and all of a sudden have intamacy. It needs to be built through talking and sharing emotionally, but also through physical contact. A bad sex/intimate life will ruin a marriage, so while I can see waiitng on sex if thats your thing, you need to make sure you are sexually compatible. Oh well. I voted "you're a tool cuz a) I think waiting to kiss is a silly idea and b) these religious threads usually get outta hand.

That is a very biblical principle you know. A lot of people think the Puritans were prudes, but they thought it was a sin to not have sex frequently. The bible says that you're supposed to regularly have sex with your spouse.

G-d created pleasure for a reason

 

[chambersc]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
:roll: for a community who criticizes christians for being intolerant, you guys sure are tolerant!

I'll admit that I have no tolerance towards christians' beliefs.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: chambersc

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother
:roll: for a community who criticizes christians for being intolerant, you guys sure are tolerant!

I'll admit that I have no tolerance towards christians' beliefs.

It really depends on what you view as "christian" beliefs though. I will agree some "Christians" and their "un-Christian" beliefs really piss me off too.

Just look at my sig.

 

[DougK62]

No way could I do it. Kissing is just WAY too good. I don't understand the people who think it will lead to "something else". Practice a little self control - it isn't difficult.