Poll: Universal Health Care, Yea Or Nay?

[Ornery]

I'm all for tweaking the current system, with Medical Malpractice Tort Reform, and the Prescription Drug User Fee Act, but I sure as hell don't want to go down the same road as Canada!

Health system may not survive the decade, premiers warn

• "We state today as premiers of Canada that without real reform to health-care delivery and without the affordable and sustainable financial base that can only be provided by the federal government, the health-care system as we know it will not survive the decade."

IMO, if we had insurance that gave users incentive to find lower cost providers and prescriptions, we'd see much lower medical costs across the board, due to competition. As it is, nobody bothers to shop around, because they have a fixed co-pay! What do they care what their doctor charges the carrier, so long as their out of pocket expense is the same?

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Nea.

CkG

 

[lozina]

I'm a liberal opposed to national healthcare.

 

[shiner]

Do you really want the same people who run the Postal Service to be in charge of your healthcare??

 

[Ornery]

At least the postal system is self sufficient.

I just don't feel that NHC is an entitlement. I certainly don't want to try and force businesses to foot the bill for it, like Hillary wanted to!

 

[wirelessenabled]

The United States continues to top the OECD ranking for overall healthcare spending at $4900 per capita in 2001 - more than twice the OECD average of $2100 ( Chart 1) . Though more than half of this is private funding, public spending per capita in the United States is also high (only Norway, Luxembourg and Iceland spend more), even though only about one-quarter of the population is insured through public programmes compared with 90 per cent or more in most other OECD countries.

Health expenditure as a percentage of GDP in the United States jumped from 13.1% in 2000 to 13.9% in 2001, largely reflecting the American economic slowdown. Switzerland, which spent 10.9% of GDP on health and Germany, which spent 10.7% of GDP, were the next highest spenders in relation to their GDP. The lowest spenders as a proportion of GDP were Korea, Luxembourg and the Slovak Republic, spending less than 6% of their GDP on health in 2000 or 2001.

OECD study

For me the bottom line is what is the return on the expenditures. The US spends 30+% more on healthcare per capita than the next closest country. Our life expectancy is lower. Seems to me like we are getting a bad return on investment.

The press hones in on the one in a million case where US modern medicine "saves" an 80 year old with open heart surgery. We don't read much about the poor state of pre-natal care, vaccination levels, total lack af any healthcare for about 40-50 million people, poor dental care which leads to illness and so on.

I don't like national healthcare much but it is obvious to me that we cannot continue on the path we are on. When do we make a change? Whan we get to the point where half the population has no heath insurance. That day might be coming sooner than you think. I just finished renewing the heathcare insurance for my 25+ employee plan. The quote was 33% higher than last year which was itself 17% higher than the year before. So for my company health care expense is up nearly 50% in the last two years. I have absorbed it but will not be able to much longer. That would add 25 more people plus their families to the rolls of the uninsured.:frown:

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Ornery
At least the postal system is self sufficient.

Like Amtrack and other government corporations?

 

[Dman877]

We are all entitled to LIFE, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness. The insurance/doctor/malpractice debacle we have in this country needs to change. It's a viscious cycle, doctors charge a lot because their insurance is so high and the patient doesn't care, his insurance covers it, so insurance companies charge an arm-and-a-leg cuz the doctors charge so much. Meanwhile you have profit-oriented companies deciding how and if doctors can help you. IMO, some measure of competition needs to be introduced into the healthcare industry to drive costs down.

 

[heartsurgeon]

CAD FORGIVE ME!

I am a conservative Doctor IN FAVOR OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

But not for the reasons you all have.

call BBD quick, see if he will disagree with me on this just out of priniciple..

I want a 9-5 job with reasonable pay, great benefits, complete protection from liability, and automatic COLA, and good retirement plan.

I have grown weary of increasing malpractice premiums (no end in sight), decreasing payment for services rendered (no end in sight), and a general decline in respect towards physicians.

A Goverment job would promise me a reliable income that would always increase over time, absolute protection from the scum sucking trial lawyers, and respect! in Canada, you don't p!ss of your surgeon, or you go to the end of the waiting list!!

Bring it on all you LIBERALS.....I'M ALL FOR IT! But "it" won't be anything like what you expect "it" to be.....

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Insurance companies are getting rich off of U.S. healthcare system. That is not how it should be. Most of the expense of healthcare goes to insurance company profits. Let the government take away that middle man and then we can all have healthcare for less money than we pay now.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
CAD FORGIVE ME!

I am a conservative Doctor IN FAVOR OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

But not for the reasons you all have.

call BBD quick, see if he will disagree with me on this just out of priniciple..

I want a 9-5 job with reasonable pay, great benefits, complete protection from liability, and automatic COLA, and good retirement plan.

I have grown weary of increasing malpractice premiums (no end in sight), decreasing payment for services rendered (no end in sight), and a general decline in respect towards physicians.

A Goverment job would promise me a reliable income that would always increase over time, absolute protection from the scum sucking trial lawyers, and respect! in Canada, you don't p!ss of your surgeon, or you go to the end of the waiting list!!

Bring it on all you LIBERALS.....I'M ALL FOR IT! But "it" won't be anything like what you expect "it" to be.....

Damn...that's nearly word for word what a friend of mine who is a doctor said.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Insurance companies are getting rich off of U.S. healthcare system. That is not how it should be. Most of the expense of healthcare goes to insurance company profits. Let the government take away that middle man and then we can all have healthcare for less money than we pay now.

Riiiiiiight. Government programs are always models of efficiency and cost effectiveness. You think healthcare is expensive now? Just wait until the government runs it.

 

[datalink7]

National Health Care? I don't think that is the answer.

But I hope that we all agree SOMETHING must be done with the current system....

 

[XZeroII]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
CAD FORGIVE ME!

I am a conservative Doctor IN FAVOR OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

But not for the reasons you all have.

call BBD quick, see if he will disagree with me on this just out of priniciple..

I want a 9-5 job with reasonable pay, great benefits, complete protection from liability, and automatic COLA, and good retirement plan.

I have grown weary of increasing malpractice premiums (no end in sight), decreasing payment for services rendered (no end in sight), and a general decline in respect towards physicians.

A Goverment job would promise me a reliable income that would always increase over time, absolute protection from the scum sucking trial lawyers, and respect! in Canada, you don't p!ss of your surgeon, or you go to the end of the waiting list!!

Bring it on all you LIBERALS.....I'M ALL FOR IT! But "it" won't be anything like what you expect "it" to be.....

I am against it, but I understand 100% where you are coming from. Insurance companies are the ones that need MAJOR reforms. Have you ever walked into a major insurance company's building? I almost expected to see $20 bills hanging in the toilet stalls. They make so much money it is not funny and the gov't wont do anything about it because they know that if things get bad enough that people will just hand over control to them.
So rather than being for federal healthcare, you should really be in favor of insurance reform. There should be upper limits on how much a person can sue a doctor for, or an upper limit on how much an accident victim can collect. There should also be gov't regulations on insurance premiums. This would be an infinatly better proposal than U healthcare.

 

[Ornery]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx

Originally posted by: Ornery
At least the postal system is self sufficient.

Like Amtrack and other government corporations?

Since 1982, we have depended exclusively on postage and fees rather than taxpayer revenue for our operations.

Any more uber-intelligent comments?

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078
Insurance companies are getting rich off of U.S. healthcare system. That is not how it should be. Most of the expense of healthcare goes to insurance company profits. Let the government take away that middle man and then we can all have healthcare for less money than we pay now.

Riiiiiiight. Government programs are always models of efficiency and cost effectiveness. You think healthcare is expensive now? Just wait until the government runs it.

explain why the US has the greatest % of healthcare / GDP spending (see stats posted already in this thread)

the figures don't lie. The money is going somewhere. It seems to me that some of the other countries run their system more efficiently. I'm certain that I pay less for healthcare then an average American citizen.

It's dead simple, insurance companies are there to make a profit, the govt. can run healthcare on a cost basis

(I'm not making a case for or against socialized healthcare, I don't live in the USA so it doesn't affect me)

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

explain why the US has the greatest % of healthcare / GDP spending (see stats posted already in this thread)

the figures don't lie. The money is going somewhere. It seems to me that some of the other countries run their system more efficiently

(I'm not making a case for or against socialized healthcare, I don't live in the USA so it doesn't affect me)

no other country spends as much money trying to save people who are very likely to die anyway. there is TONS of money being poured into that, whereas doctors in other countries would have quit and called it hopeless. additionally, the extra waiting that plagues many socialized healthcare is a cost that isn't expressed in those figures. the US seems to have a high infant death rate. that is becuase we count births as live births that aren't counted that way by other countries. good explanation here

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
CAD FORGIVE ME!

I am a conservative Doctor IN FAVOR OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

But not for the reasons you all have.

call BBD quick, see if he will disagree with me on this just out of priniciple..

I want a 9-5 job with reasonable pay, great benefits, complete protection from liability, and automatic COLA, and good retirement plan.

I have grown weary of increasing malpractice premiums (no end in sight), decreasing payment for services rendered (no end in sight), and a general decline in respect towards physicians.

A Goverment job would promise me a reliable income that would always increase over time, absolute protection from the scum sucking trial lawyers, and respect! in Canada, you don't p!ss of your surgeon, or you go to the end of the waiting list!!

Bring it on all you LIBERALS.....I'M ALL FOR IT! But "it" won't be anything like what you expect "it" to be.....

How bout tort reform instead?

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: freegeeks

explain why the US has the greatest % of healthcare / GDP spending (see stats posted already in this thread)

the figures don't lie. The money is going somewhere. It seems to me that some of the other countries run their system more efficiently

(I'm not making a case for or against socialized healthcare, I don't live in the USA so it doesn't affect me)

no other country spends as much money trying to save people who are very likely to die anyway. there is TONS of money being poured into that, whereas doctors in other countries would have quit and called it hopeless. additionally, the extra waiting that plagues many socialized healthcare is a cost that isn't expressed in those figures

there are plenty of socialized healthcare countries that don't have waiting lists.

the large difference between countries can not been explained by your first argument. We are not talking about pocket change here. We are talking about hundreds of billions $ here.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
CAD FORGIVE ME!

I am a conservative Doctor IN FAVOR OF UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE!

But not for the reasons you all have.

call BBD quick, see if he will disagree with me on this just out of priniciple..

I want a 9-5 job with reasonable pay, great benefits, complete protection from liability, and automatic COLA, and good retirement plan.

I have grown weary of increasing malpractice premiums (no end in sight), decreasing payment for services rendered (no end in sight), and a general decline in respect towards physicians.

A Goverment job would promise me a reliable income that would always increase over time, absolute protection from the scum sucking trial lawyers, and respect! in Canada, you don't p!ss of your surgeon, or you go to the end of the waiting list!!

Bring it on all you LIBERALS.....I'M ALL FOR IT! But "it" won't be anything like what you expect "it" to be.....

Actually I'm "kind of" for it but only in a limited sense. Since it won't stay small with the current attitude of the people - I will not support any attempt yet. If people became responsible for themselves or atleast started to think that way then maybe we could have the type of care system that would allow for every child to get the preventative care they all need.

Someday I hope to see an America that values personal responsibility over government entitlements - until then people can forget the idea of gov't health insurance.

CkG

 

[Ornery]

"How bout tort reform instead?"

First, we have to get past these freaks...

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: freegeeks

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: freegeeks

explain why the US has the greatest % of healthcare / GDP spending (see stats posted already in this thread)

the figures don't lie. The money is going somewhere. It seems to me that some of the other countries run their system more efficiently

(I'm not making a case for or against socialized healthcare, I don't live in the USA so it doesn't affect me)

no other country spends as much money trying to save people who are very likely to die anyway. there is TONS of money being poured into that, whereas doctors in other countries would have quit and called it hopeless. additionally, the extra waiting that plagues many socialized healthcare is a cost that isn't expressed in those figures

there are plenty of socialized healthcare countries that don't have waiting lists.

the large difference between countries can not been explained by your first argument. We are not talking about pocket change here. We are talking about hundreds of billions $ here.

i said "many," not all, so plenty would still fit in there.

it costs a ton of money to keep people on life support going through emergency surgeries. it isn't just "pocket change"
the rest of it is explained by the US being the fatest country on the planet.

 

[BugsBunny1078]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: freegeeks

explain why the US has the greatest % of healthcare / GDP spending (see stats posted already in this thread)

the figures don't lie. The money is going somewhere. It seems to me that some of the other countries run their system more efficiently

(I'm not making a case for or against socialized healthcare, I don't live in the USA so it doesn't affect me)

no other country spends as much money trying to save people who are very likely to die anyway. there is TONS of money being poured into that, whereas doctors in other countries would have quit and called it hopeless. additionally, the extra waiting that plagues many socialized healthcare is a cost that isn't expressed in those figures. the US seems to have a high infant death rate. that is becuase we count births as live births that aren't counted that way by other countries. good explanation here

You sound like an insurance company advocate. Trying to make more profit by putting people to sleep who are sick. Doctor's already bow to cost cutting measures and take people who would other wise heal off of life support. Others they keep doped in a comatose state to guarantee they won't wake up. If you're 80 and become hospitalized the hospital will likely view you as not worthy of trying to save. It is very sad, profit driven by insurance companies, holocaust.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
Do you really want the same people who run the Postal Service to be in charge of your healthcare??

Wouldn't that be wonderful. We have the greatest and most efficient postal service in the world handeling volumes of mail unmatched anywhere else and at a price everybody in the nation can afford and the receiving end of which is completely free. The richest or poorest person can send a letter for 37 cents to the most distand and hard to reach podunk or next door. It makes a mockery of our current medical system. It shows the potential of mannaged socialism. And the organism functions successfully, in part, because it has had a decent, humane, and honerable mission.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: BugsBunny1078

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: freegeeks

explain why the US has the greatest % of healthcare / GDP spending (see stats posted already in this thread)

the figures don't lie. The money is going somewhere. It seems to me that some of the other countries run their system more efficiently

(I'm not making a case for or against socialized healthcare, I don't live in the USA so it doesn't affect me)

no other country spends as much money trying to save people who are very likely to die anyway. there is TONS of money being poured into that, whereas doctors in other countries would have quit and called it hopeless. additionally, the extra waiting that plagues many socialized healthcare is a cost that isn't expressed in those figures. the US seems to have a high infant death rate. that is becuase we count births as live births that aren't counted that way by other countries. good explanation here

You sound like an insurance company advocate. Trying to make more profit by putting people to sleep who are sick. Doctor's already bow to cost cutting measures and take people who would other wise heal off of life support. Others they keep doped in a comatose state to guarantee they won't wake up. If you're 80 and become hospitalized the hospital will likely view you as not worthy of trying to save. It is very sad, profit driven by insurance companies, holocaust.

um, no, i'm saying that the US goes to far greater measures than any other country because we don't give up as easy. i didn't make any value judgment on it at all. why don't you read what i say and respond to that, instead of something you made up next time?