illusion88
Lifer
I was spanked. I have thoughts of sucide and hate my life. Proof that spanking is bad.
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POLL: Spank your children: Yay or Nay?
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MartyMcFly3
Lifer
That doesnt make any sense. Just because you are upset with life and have thoughts of suicide does not mean that spanking is the cause for such tendencies. I got spanked, I enjoy life and never thought about suicide in a way of actually considering it. So by your logic, thats proof spanking is good.
LordMagnusKain
Banned
I was spanked, and had thoughts of killing myself whenever i was... but that probably steamed more from my having an emotionally hard time dealing with my dad being an abusive alcoholic.
Say It Ain't So-weezer *aka what not to do*
You can spank and still not believe in it. There are other ways to get your point across, but if it's the *only* thing to be done, then sure. But I still wont believe in it.
My mom claims to have spanked me only once when I was very little, but I don't remember it. It was a last resort. It guess it worked.
My mom claims to have spanked me only once when I was very little, but I don't remember it. It was a last resort. It guess it worked.
MartyMcFly3
Lifer
When my dad spanked me, i learned my lesson... his spanks hurt but not to the point of abuse.
When my mom spanked me, i pretended it hurt so it would be done with and so my dad wouldnt give me a real spanking. She didnt spank hard at all 😛
When my mom spanked me, i pretended it hurt so it would be done with and so my dad wouldnt give me a real spanking. She didnt spank hard at all 😛
PaperclipGod
Banned
LordMagnusKain
Banned
that is SOOOooo wrong in the context of this thread's title!
IMO, spanking kids is pretty pathetic and lazy. Kids should be disciplined, no question, but that does not mean spanking is required. Damn, this is something that REALLY should be taught at school. One of the most important things we do as members of society is raise children. Yet, not one lick about parenting is taught in public schools. THIS IS STUPID!
Here's a copy and paste from the past. It sums up my opinion on the whole subject:
Here's a copy and paste from the past. It sums up my opinion on the whole subject:
- I can see that Ela and I are on the same page. I think the problem that keeps creeping in, is mistaking punishment for discipline. Spanking is a quick punishment. It's used as a consequence of not doing as told. Parents have to be disciplined about disciplining their kids. There are generally more logical steps and consequences that could be employed before it reaches a spanking point. This may take a little more time at first, but saves countless future arguments and... spankings! 😉
It seems so easy in hindsight. Just a matter of laying down reasonable rules and seeing that they're followed. It's got to be done in a "disciplined", consistent manner. Mom can't allow things that dad prohibits. You can't say one thing one day and something different the next. You have to lay down the ground rules early, so there is no misunderstanding. My boys have NEVER defied either of us, because that was not an option. I can't ever remember them telling me no. Never.
You guys have got to read the Montessori method before even having kids. It should be a mandatory class in all schools. Hell, the kids in public schools should all be taught using these methods.
A quick example that might explain why our boys weren't "terrible" in their twos would be the way we dealt with things that they weren't "allowed" to touch. In the Montessori method, all their toys have a place. No toy is removed from it's place, till the last toy is put back. Sound impossible? Nope, it's easy. Just a matter of setting up the rules and following through.
At two years old, they liked to watch Sesame Street videos. Instead of telling them not to touch the TV and VCR, we showed them how to turn them on and operate them. They could find their own tapes and play them when they wanted. The tapes were rewound and put away when done. Like I said, you have to read up on this whole Montessori teaching program. It's a way of life that saves a LOT of stress.
- IMO, people confuse discipline with spanking. I believe in discipline, but not spanking. One other thing to consider is when to discipline. If you're constantly harping at your child, it will fall on deaf ears when important issues crop up. Lastly, a parent has to be consistent. When you tell a child to do, or not do something, you have to follow through. Personally, I tell them once and only once. After that they face the consequence of not listening the first time.
My children are 10 and 15 years old now, but I still remember dealing with 2 year olds. The trick is to keep them busy with their own toys or activities. Don't merely tell them no from across the room. You'll have to frequently get up and direct them to an activity that they are allowed and encouraged to do. Say, "That's grandma's vase, here are your toys to play with." No need to tell them no, over and over. Doing that only lessens the meaning of the word, no.
The consequences of continuing to do something that they have been told not to, could range from spanking to time outs or anything in between. I never resorted to spanking or time outs. I have been known to yell, but only once every ten days or so. That's really all that was required to discipline our boys. Their manners are always commented on and I couldn't be more proud of them.
I wish our local schools offered lessons in parenting. By the time someone has started down the road to poor parenting habits, it's really hard to change. Again, the keys are consistency, following through and not sweating the small stuff.
Sorry to go mouthing off like this in only my second post, but it's a huge issue and I wouldn't say anything if I hadn't been down this road already. A good source for more info can be found in any Montessori based training guides.
This has been discussed so frequently, I could fill a page with just a few of my replies:
God, so many people equate discipline with punishment! To make a long story short, it's a matter of consequences. You make a choice, you deal with the consequences. Same with kids. Obviously, some people make spanking a consequence, but that's pretty barbaric. If you start kids out right, the consequences will be rational and so will their choices.
Study about Maria Montessori and what discipline really is.
Montessori explained: How it began, Why it works
"...on a road trip, if your 4 year old is in the back kicking your seat screaming, bitching, etc. etc. you can do anything but spank him?"
What's the "road trip" for? Family vacation? A "Wally World" adventure? Not much sympathy on your part if you can't understand your child's qualms with a "road trip". Didn't your parents ever subject you to the same torture? How can you not empathize with your kid?
What I love, is people without the wherewithal to raise even one kid, popping out three inside of five years! The stress and turmoil of getting married and trying to make a go of it at a young age isn't enough. They have to throw a kid or three into the mix!
In this topic I've seen people use the term discipline and spanking interchangeably... WRONG! Some people can have well disciplined kids without spanking. Some can have poorly disciplined kids with spanking. The ultimate goal is, or should be, well disciplined, self sufficient future citizens. Everybody is going to have a different method of getting there. Some will NEVER achieve this goal.
To me, it's like hearing these tales of woe regarding computer hardware and software problems. Two people with identical systems have problems. One handles the issues in a methodical, linear fashion and moves on. The other damns Microsoft, AMD or VIA to hell, and struggles along until they finally abandon it and build a new system. Trouble is, you can't FDISK your kids and start over. Why do some parents raise perfectly well disciplined kids without corporal punishment, and others beat their kids daily and never see positive results? You thinks some kids are just "born bad"?
That's another point I agreed with Dr. Phil about. Unless the kid has a problem like autism or retardation, they all CAN be disciplined. It's totally the responsibility of the parent to follow through from birth to adulthood. It CAN be done without spanking. It's been proven over and over. Some people feel spanking is the quick and easy solution. Actually, the alternative methods are FAR easier, more effective and less stressful in the long run. It's a simple matter of starting out with a good foundation. It's much harder to try and fix things after they've gone to hell. No surprise there. A little study goes a LONG way!
Don't know if you guys saw the show, or read his thoughts from his site, but I wanted to hear what his point of view was. The show had just started when I started the topic, so I didn't know what his big ideas were.
Now, having seen the show, I can say I agree with him 80%. One thing that clicks is "Allow Them A Sense of Mastery". That goes hand in hand with what I know about the Montessori teaching methods.
I've never had to spank, and never used time outs. Skoorb asked for, "...a good way to get a misbehaving 2 year old to stop doing something really freaking annoying..."[/i] All I can say is study the logic behind Montessori. In a nutshell, quit telling kids what they can't or shouldn't do, and give them the power to DO things on their own! For one quick example, we showed our two year old how to USE the VCR instead of telling him to "not touch". He was instructed to rewind and remove his tapes and put them back in their jackets, then back on the shelf when he was done with them. No other toys or projects can be started till the last one is put away. No arguing, that's just the way it is and you MUST follow up on this ALWAYS. I think Dr. Phil touched on that too.
I've mentioned before that this course of study, Montessori, should be taught in public schools before people even become parents. Use that as a frame of reference for your own parenting style, because it's a rock solid foundation to build on!
"Children will test these reactions as they grow and their minds start to understand more of the world around them, and some of their actions require negative reinforcement to send a clear signal that what they are doing is wrong."
What is "negative reinforcement"? Sounds like an oxymoron! LOL.
J/K, but I prefer to call it consequences. They learn the consequence of an action. It's your job as a parent to keep it all consistent and logical. When the consequences involve safety, it's your job to keep them from harm's way. They should already be doing exactly as they're told by the time they're able to run in the street or stick a screwdriver in an outlet. When you tell them to stay by your side or leave the screwdriver in the toolbox, that's what they WILL do if you've disciplined them correctly up to that point. If they don't obey by then, you've already screwed up. I imagine that's when the frustration and physical "punishments" kick in.
Damn, it seems so easy in hindsight. I don't recall having to "punish" these boys. Not saying they weren't, but I can't remember any time off hand. Well, they were yelled at when I had to tell them something twice. That could be considered "negative reinforcement" or "punishment", I guess. Didn't happen often, though. Ground rules, habits and hierarchy were established VERY early on and followed through religiously.
"Spanking as a last resort."
I should say so! LOL. It seems so pathetic, barbaric and desperate! I guess I'd liken it to Palestinians throwing rocks at Israelis. By the time it comes to that, the war is already lost. It's not a matter of discipline anymore, it's more like survival and making the best of a bad situation. Actually, it's not funny. Kind of sad & silly. It would be funny if the stakes weren't so high. I guess if you mix a big dollop of love in the equation, the family will overcome poor discipline practices. Of course we all know society suffers when there is no discipline at all. Spanking would be the lesser of two evils there!
"...spanked me once..."
OMG! :Q
LOL, I got spanked almost daily. Had a belt used on me quite frequently as well as paddle. Grounded quite often as well as yelled at routinely. I KNOW how lame that type of "discipline" is! 😀
Honestly, it's just too bad this isn't taught in school. Nothing is taught about how to buy real estate, buy a car or manage those large transactions. Nothing about parenting. These are THE MOST IMPORTANT things you'll do in your life and none of it is even touched on. Talk about pathetic!
You live on a very busy street. You have told your todler/child not to go into the street or cross it, because it's very dangerous, etc.
A toddler can NEVER be left out of your sight in that type of situation. The younger the child is, the less they can be left out of sight.
An older child should know to ask to go across the street. At that point, you either take them across or tell them no.
If a child is told no, but insists, something is already wrong. I don't /won't argue. There is nothing to discuss. This should be established before it becomes the safety issue you posed. If they defy you for any reason, you've already lost your grip. You could list thousands of tragic scenarios that result from that basic problem. You're in charge, they do as you say... PERIOD! If that isn't the case at all times, one problem after another will crop up over and over. If that's what happens in the homes of most of most of this topic's respondents, then no wonder all the spanking is going on. PURE FRUSTRATION! :Q
"...Some suggest that if you set clear rules for your children to follow early on, you should never find yourself in a situation when your child says no to you or goes right against your will in some other way. Right. What planet do you get those kids from?
I am not a parent myself...
...Learn that it is possible for two parties to have different opinions and still both be right."
(1) If you set clear rules and start good habits early on... everything will easily fall in to place where discipline is concerned and without spanking. That's fact. Otherwise, entire countries couldn't and wouldn't outlaw it. BTW, I never knew of this till I heard it in this topic!
(2) I am a parent myself and practice what I preach. My kids are living proof that spanking is NOT necessary at all. Both are red blooded American boys from planet Earth!
(3) You can spank kids and end up with good discipline and you can also end up with good discipline without spanking. Which way is preferable?
"...man, kids these days need more physical discipline (such as spanking).."talking" to them does not really work. "talking" to them is like just giving them a little slap on the wrist."
Discipline does NOT equal physical punishment. This stuff REALLY ought to be taught in school... How To Parent 101! Oh, here's a link to Montessori Online, where you can get a head start learning how to do it right.
The bunch of F#$)*^&#) runts will be able to be found in that same area at some point in the future if you want to bag the little turds. Punks like that hang out in the same spots all the time. I wouldn't lay a hand on 'em, but that doesn't mean you can't teach 'em a lesson. Something along the line of throwing water over them would be "good fun", especially in winter. Once you know who they are, you can surprise them anytime. Make sure you tie the "surprise" to the snowball throwing incident, so they "learn".
Have Fun
It is FACT that kids can be disciplined without corporal punishment. The only question now is, why use that method in a "civilized" society? Decades ago, kids were beaten severely as the norm. As years went by, parents beat them less and less until today we see posts about, "Never ever ever ever above the neck...", "...never used any implements...", "Beating or physical abuse is never a good thing...", "...dont mean beat the hell out the kid...", "might of been a little harsh", "...spanking for absolutely everything is absurd...", "...flogging, beating or lashing would be an entirely different subject...", "..."Spanking should be the last resort..." The line is being drawn at spanking, but not too hard. It's completely banned in schools. In a couple more decades we should ALL be able to see it for the barbaric act it is.
Like I said, it's been PROVEN that kids can be disciplined without it. Why not advance to the future now?
God, so many people equate discipline with punishment! To make a long story short, it's a matter of consequences. You make a choice, you deal with the consequences. Same with kids. Obviously, some people make spanking a consequence, but that's pretty barbaric. If you start kids out right, the consequences will be rational and so will their choices.
Study about Maria Montessori and what discipline really is.
Montessori explained: How it began, Why it works
- Montessorians try to teach with kindness, using the positive incentives of pride in achievement, craftsmanship for a job well done. They avoid any approach which uses carrot or stick, punishment or prize, blackmail or bribery. Maria Montessori discovered that children are well aware of the value of their achievements, and can see through lavish praise, particularly when a mistake is obvious. Like any intelligent people children wish to learn from their mistakes, to do it better next time, and so need objective assessment of what went wrong.
Because punishment usually humiliates, and most often causes a child to stop trying rather than to try to improve, it does not feature in a Montessori nursery. A child needs constructive help with errors and sympathetic assistance if there is an accident. Punishment rarely takes him further. When a grown-up spills a cup of coffee people are solicitous and helpful; if a child spills milk he is accused of carelessness, in spite of the fact that he has had less practice with drinks. In Montessori classrooms adults are sympathetic because they realise such mistakes are unintentional, and they respond by showing the child how to clear up the spilled milk, so he knows what to do next time...
"...on a road trip, if your 4 year old is in the back kicking your seat screaming, bitching, etc. etc. you can do anything but spank him?"
What's the "road trip" for? Family vacation? A "Wally World" adventure? Not much sympathy on your part if you can't understand your child's qualms with a "road trip". Didn't your parents ever subject you to the same torture? How can you not empathize with your kid?
What I love, is people without the wherewithal to raise even one kid, popping out three inside of five years! The stress and turmoil of getting married and trying to make a go of it at a young age isn't enough. They have to throw a kid or three into the mix!
In this topic I've seen people use the term discipline and spanking interchangeably... WRONG! Some people can have well disciplined kids without spanking. Some can have poorly disciplined kids with spanking. The ultimate goal is, or should be, well disciplined, self sufficient future citizens. Everybody is going to have a different method of getting there. Some will NEVER achieve this goal.
To me, it's like hearing these tales of woe regarding computer hardware and software problems. Two people with identical systems have problems. One handles the issues in a methodical, linear fashion and moves on. The other damns Microsoft, AMD or VIA to hell, and struggles along until they finally abandon it and build a new system. Trouble is, you can't FDISK your kids and start over. Why do some parents raise perfectly well disciplined kids without corporal punishment, and others beat their kids daily and never see positive results? You thinks some kids are just "born bad"?
That's another point I agreed with Dr. Phil about. Unless the kid has a problem like autism or retardation, they all CAN be disciplined. It's totally the responsibility of the parent to follow through from birth to adulthood. It CAN be done without spanking. It's been proven over and over. Some people feel spanking is the quick and easy solution. Actually, the alternative methods are FAR easier, more effective and less stressful in the long run. It's a simple matter of starting out with a good foundation. It's much harder to try and fix things after they've gone to hell. No surprise there. A little study goes a LONG way!
Don't know if you guys saw the show, or read his thoughts from his site, but I wanted to hear what his point of view was. The show had just started when I started the topic, so I didn't know what his big ideas were.
Now, having seen the show, I can say I agree with him 80%. One thing that clicks is "Allow Them A Sense of Mastery". That goes hand in hand with what I know about the Montessori teaching methods.
I've never had to spank, and never used time outs. Skoorb asked for, "...a good way to get a misbehaving 2 year old to stop doing something really freaking annoying..."[/i] All I can say is study the logic behind Montessori. In a nutshell, quit telling kids what they can't or shouldn't do, and give them the power to DO things on their own! For one quick example, we showed our two year old how to USE the VCR instead of telling him to "not touch". He was instructed to rewind and remove his tapes and put them back in their jackets, then back on the shelf when he was done with them. No other toys or projects can be started till the last one is put away. No arguing, that's just the way it is and you MUST follow up on this ALWAYS. I think Dr. Phil touched on that too.
I've mentioned before that this course of study, Montessori, should be taught in public schools before people even become parents. Use that as a frame of reference for your own parenting style, because it's a rock solid foundation to build on!
"Children will test these reactions as they grow and their minds start to understand more of the world around them, and some of their actions require negative reinforcement to send a clear signal that what they are doing is wrong."
What is "negative reinforcement"? Sounds like an oxymoron! LOL.
J/K, but I prefer to call it consequences. They learn the consequence of an action. It's your job as a parent to keep it all consistent and logical. When the consequences involve safety, it's your job to keep them from harm's way. They should already be doing exactly as they're told by the time they're able to run in the street or stick a screwdriver in an outlet. When you tell them to stay by your side or leave the screwdriver in the toolbox, that's what they WILL do if you've disciplined them correctly up to that point. If they don't obey by then, you've already screwed up. I imagine that's when the frustration and physical "punishments" kick in.
Damn, it seems so easy in hindsight. I don't recall having to "punish" these boys. Not saying they weren't, but I can't remember any time off hand. Well, they were yelled at when I had to tell them something twice. That could be considered "negative reinforcement" or "punishment", I guess. Didn't happen often, though. Ground rules, habits and hierarchy were established VERY early on and followed through religiously.
"Spanking as a last resort."
I should say so! LOL. It seems so pathetic, barbaric and desperate! I guess I'd liken it to Palestinians throwing rocks at Israelis. By the time it comes to that, the war is already lost. It's not a matter of discipline anymore, it's more like survival and making the best of a bad situation. Actually, it's not funny. Kind of sad & silly. It would be funny if the stakes weren't so high. I guess if you mix a big dollop of love in the equation, the family will overcome poor discipline practices. Of course we all know society suffers when there is no discipline at all. Spanking would be the lesser of two evils there!
"...spanked me once..."
OMG! :Q
LOL, I got spanked almost daily. Had a belt used on me quite frequently as well as paddle. Grounded quite often as well as yelled at routinely. I KNOW how lame that type of "discipline" is! 😀
Honestly, it's just too bad this isn't taught in school. Nothing is taught about how to buy real estate, buy a car or manage those large transactions. Nothing about parenting. These are THE MOST IMPORTANT things you'll do in your life and none of it is even touched on. Talk about pathetic!
You live on a very busy street. You have told your todler/child not to go into the street or cross it, because it's very dangerous, etc.
A toddler can NEVER be left out of your sight in that type of situation. The younger the child is, the less they can be left out of sight.
An older child should know to ask to go across the street. At that point, you either take them across or tell them no.
If a child is told no, but insists, something is already wrong. I don't /won't argue. There is nothing to discuss. This should be established before it becomes the safety issue you posed. If they defy you for any reason, you've already lost your grip. You could list thousands of tragic scenarios that result from that basic problem. You're in charge, they do as you say... PERIOD! If that isn't the case at all times, one problem after another will crop up over and over. If that's what happens in the homes of most of most of this topic's respondents, then no wonder all the spanking is going on. PURE FRUSTRATION! :Q
"...Some suggest that if you set clear rules for your children to follow early on, you should never find yourself in a situation when your child says no to you or goes right against your will in some other way. Right. What planet do you get those kids from?
I am not a parent myself...
...Learn that it is possible for two parties to have different opinions and still both be right."
(1) If you set clear rules and start good habits early on... everything will easily fall in to place where discipline is concerned and without spanking. That's fact. Otherwise, entire countries couldn't and wouldn't outlaw it. BTW, I never knew of this till I heard it in this topic!
(2) I am a parent myself and practice what I preach. My kids are living proof that spanking is NOT necessary at all. Both are red blooded American boys from planet Earth!
(3) You can spank kids and end up with good discipline and you can also end up with good discipline without spanking. Which way is preferable?
"...man, kids these days need more physical discipline (such as spanking).."talking" to them does not really work. "talking" to them is like just giving them a little slap on the wrist."
Discipline does NOT equal physical punishment. This stuff REALLY ought to be taught in school... How To Parent 101! Oh, here's a link to Montessori Online, where you can get a head start learning how to do it right.
The bunch of F#$)*^&#) runts will be able to be found in that same area at some point in the future if you want to bag the little turds. Punks like that hang out in the same spots all the time. I wouldn't lay a hand on 'em, but that doesn't mean you can't teach 'em a lesson. Something along the line of throwing water over them would be "good fun", especially in winter. Once you know who they are, you can surprise them anytime. Make sure you tie the "surprise" to the snowball throwing incident, so they "learn".
Have Fun
It is FACT that kids can be disciplined without corporal punishment. The only question now is, why use that method in a "civilized" society? Decades ago, kids were beaten severely as the norm. As years went by, parents beat them less and less until today we see posts about, "Never ever ever ever above the neck...", "...never used any implements...", "Beating or physical abuse is never a good thing...", "...dont mean beat the hell out the kid...", "might of been a little harsh", "...spanking for absolutely everything is absurd...", "...flogging, beating or lashing would be an entirely different subject...", "..."Spanking should be the last resort..." The line is being drawn at spanking, but not too hard. It's completely banned in schools. In a couple more decades we should ALL be able to see it for the barbaric act it is.
Like I said, it's been PROVEN that kids can be disciplined without it. Why not advance to the future now?
PlatinumGold
Lifer
Interestingly enough, i think people abuse NOT spanking as much as spanking. there are many conflicting emotions involved and my suspicion is that more damage is done by parents too lazy to discipline and use not spanking theory as an excuse than by parents that spank moderately.
i spanked my kids, and what really shocks most people is that i used moderate spanking when before my kids turned 1 yrs old. SHOCKING, perhaps if you think of babies in a certain way, but they start their learning process from the moment they are born and at that age, pain / pleasure is the only way to communicate to them when extreme measures are needed. the older my children get, the less i spank them, my 7 yr old NEVER gets spanked, we talk things out.
on the other hand, i know many parents that are afraid to discipline their children in ANY WAY so they NEVER spank their children. classic eg. we went over to a friends place, their 2 yr old bit my 3 yr olds finger and HARD. left major marks but fortunately didn't draw blood. so she put him in the bathroom for a "Time out". during the 2 hrs we were there, this kid went into the bathroom for time outs 10 times or more. (lost count) he was never in there for more than 5 minutes.
there is no way you can convince me that this child is learning anything from those experiences. if you ask me, that is lazier than a swat on the behind for activities that CLEARLY deserved punishment.
PlatinumGold
Lifer
btw ornery, i don't think you and i will ever agree.
granted, in a couple of years when my youngest is 6 or so, i probably won't spank ANY of my children at all, but that to me would be the result of HOW i raised my children and not the rule for everyone.
granted, in a couple of years when my youngest is 6 or so, i probably won't spank ANY of my children at all, but that to me would be the result of HOW i raised my children and not the rule for everyone.
PlatinumGold
Lifer
you are missing my point tho. the modern thinking of "time outs", positive reinforcement over negative reinforcement, while all good are just being abused by lazy parents and in my opinion, more than spanking was abused.
many of these same parents are the ones that end up with children completely out of control and end up abusing them because of their inability to deal with their children.
i think there is a time and a place for most things. there is a time and a place for spanking, tho it like other methodologies can be abused.
"...the modern thinking of "time outs", positive reinforcement over negative reinforcement, while all good are just being abused by lazy parents and in my opinion..."
Any parent who takes the trouble to discipline their kids in some fashion, is NOT being lazy. Of most forms of discipline, spanking is the laziest, but at least the parents are doing something. Yelling across the room, "No!" and "Stop that!" over and over again is being lazy. A parent has to get off their ass and do something immediately, so the kid learns that no really means no. Too many parents are too lazy to keep after toddlers, which is a full time job. If your kid gets past that stage without truly learning discipline, the parents are in for an uphill battle.
Any parent who takes the trouble to discipline their kids in some fashion, is NOT being lazy. Of most forms of discipline, spanking is the laziest, but at least the parents are doing something. Yelling across the room, "No!" and "Stop that!" over and over again is being lazy. A parent has to get off their ass and do something immediately, so the kid learns that no really means no. Too many parents are too lazy to keep after toddlers, which is a full time job. If your kid gets past that stage without truly learning discipline, the parents are in for an uphill battle.
PlatinumGold
Lifer
you see, i agree that the toddler stage or even before is when discipline starts.
i just know what's worked for me and i've seen what hasn't worked for those around me. any method abused or misused can turn out badly. consistency and motivation are important. parents have to be willing to spend time with their in good times in order for the children to appreciate and accept discipline. i "play" a lot with my kids and they love playing with me. they look forward to seeing me at the end of the day. do they fear me? no, do they know i am willing to discipline them if they get out of hand? yes.
I always refer to Montessori when children's discipline comes up. I took the trouble to learn as much as possible BEFORE having kids. After putting her methods into practice, I can honestly say I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. Both of my boys are still complimented on their manners and discipline even in their teens. Neither was ever spanked, though I got loud a few times.
According to the experts that I have gleaned to be credible in the last decade or so here are the guidelines for spanking:
Spank or physically punish between ages of 2 and 12. Before that age they don't understand, after 12 you need to be more creative/switch modes.
Spank only for intentional disobedience.
Spank with the maximum force you are going to use. If a child think they are willing to endure your spankings, they become habituated and then will decided that some spankings not that bad and they can do certain things since "it's only a weak spanking unless mom/dad are really mad".
Don't spank when you're angry. You can tell the child that punishment/consequences are coming and that they need to go to their room to prepare for it. This gives you time to prepare mentally and simmer down before you administer the appropriate consequence.
Those are some quickies. Spanking is a very personal decision. I work with juvenile offenders, some have been spanked but more have had the crap beaten out of them or have never been touched. Beatings are abuse, spankings are/should be measured delivery of physical pain to reinforce a message of obedience and boundaries.
Additionally, you'll find as many people in favor of spanking as are against it. Isn't it amazing that we test people before they drive cars but we don't require any instruction before they have kids?
Gravity
Spank or physically punish between ages of 2 and 12. Before that age they don't understand, after 12 you need to be more creative/switch modes.
Spank only for intentional disobedience.
Spank with the maximum force you are going to use. If a child think they are willing to endure your spankings, they become habituated and then will decided that some spankings not that bad and they can do certain things since "it's only a weak spanking unless mom/dad are really mad".
Don't spank when you're angry. You can tell the child that punishment/consequences are coming and that they need to go to their room to prepare for it. This gives you time to prepare mentally and simmer down before you administer the appropriate consequence.
Those are some quickies. Spanking is a very personal decision. I work with juvenile offenders, some have been spanked but more have had the crap beaten out of them or have never been touched. Beatings are abuse, spankings are/should be measured delivery of physical pain to reinforce a message of obedience and boundaries.
Additionally, you'll find as many people in favor of spanking as are against it. Isn't it amazing that we test people before they drive cars but we don't require any instruction before they have kids?
Gravity
ShotgunSteven
Lifer
Correct. Contrary to the book which Hillary ripped off from someone else, villages do NOT raise children. They raise idiots. 😛
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