Poll: Should you be able to get a refund on bad games?

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Should you be able to get a refund on games?

  • Yes, at any time

  • Yes, but only if you have had it for less than a certain amount of time

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.
Feb 6, 2007
16,432
1
81
Absolutely not. No. Never. What the fuck. No. This is so stupid I don't even... I mean, yes, I get where you're coming from, but seriously, if you buy the product and it doesn't live up to your expectations, you're at fault. You shouldn't have bought it. That doesn't mean you're entitled to a refund. What in God's name happened to people that we think we deserve our money back every time things aren't perfect for us? What a whining, cry-baby, pussy-ass, bullshit, worthless, arrogant, stupid culture we've become. When I was growing up and I bought a Ninja Turtle toy that sucked, did I go demand my money back from Toys R Us? Of course not. Because it would have been stupid and sad. Where the hell do we get off demanding that no product ever leave us wanting?

Sorry for the rant, but this gets under my skin. And that's nothing against the OP; I get it. I hate buying a bad product. But we don't "deserve" anything by virtue of being customers. If we buy a shitty product, that's just a mental note for us: "don't buy that again." This idea that you should get a refund because you fucked up... No. Just no. You've made your bed, now lie in it.
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,301
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
Yes except...

13119661598595.png

It's true and the reason behind this is because all the major players are basically buying out review scores ahead of time, that's why shit games like MW get high review scores when they simply don't deserve them.

50% of the games budget on marketing, literally tens of millions of dollars and none of that goes into the magazine reviewers pockets, yeah right :)

Metacritic user review scores are more on the money, we've seen gamers rebel against this kind of thing and totally bomb metacritic scores for certain games, the fact that this kind of mass dissent occurs is really telling.
 

bguile

Senior member
Nov 30, 2011
529
51
91
Yes, but only if the game is seriously bugged to the point of totally being unplayable, or if features stated on the games website and box are not available/do not work. Note, that there are very few games where it would be acceptable, off the top of my head the only one that I can think of would be that Big Rigs racing game.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
It was supposed to be in the same branch as Battlefield 2, or so I was led to believe. Instead it's kludgy game meant to be played on consoles with a terrible UI and an even worse server browser.

Anyway, I just uninstalled it. I'd settle for any amount of money back from EA at this point, not just a full refund. If Planetside 2 isn't fun, I may take a break from gaming for a while. I can only play so much Civilization 4.

This. They made a lot of promises and didn't keep them. Also, DICE has recently been making statements in interviews claiming that people lie in polls and on forums because telemetry tells them that people do different things in game. Well duh DICE Idiots, they do, because BF3 does a lot of things wrong, but people DO want to play a shooter, and since there is no viable alternative right now, they play small maps to get away from shit vehicle play, hell there's 20 different causes I could list.

But their claim that people LIE on forums and polls is justification for not buying DICE products. I won't be ever again unless either:
A. ME playing the beta proves they have changed their tune
B. It's $4.99 or less on sale
 

Zenoth

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2005
5,196
197
106
Well, if the product was falsely advertised, yes. If the product isn't functioning as intended, is brand new out of the package and isn't obviously damaged by the consumer, then yes. But if everything is within the game as intended, as advertised, and is functioning, I'd say no. Not liking a game is just like... I don't know... I wouldn't exactly ask a refund for my pizza if I ate half of a slice and ended up not liking it. I mean I could use many analogies, all of which in the end points at personal tastes and preferences, which developers cannot feasibly fulfill for every single person out there.

So as far as personal tastes or "high expectations" are concerned, I guess it has more to do with lack of information from said game than actual boredom out of a game that gives everything you actually expected. For example, if on paper the advertisement says the game has 'x' and 'y' features, and they do end up in the game (not false advertisement) and say... you happen to like those game-play mechanics, and that's all you know of from the game, and you buy it (haven't read "full reviews" prior to purchase). Then later on after a few hours/days you realize that even though you like those mechanics in most games that have them, that one game you just bought didn't implement them "well" (or well "enough", for you). You end up disappointed and bored, and you want a refund. Well in such a case I'd say you do not have the "right" to ask for a refund, since the developers didn't falsely advertised.

If, however, you'd buy a game because the advertisement said that feature 'a' and 'b' were in it (even though you never saw videos of such features, they were "just" advertisement, but official ones nonetheless), and they end up not being in the game at all (I do mean not at all, or at least severely downgraded to the point of being something else) and if you end up "disappointed" because of that, then that's another thing. If you are "bored" out of a game in which features are absent or extremely different then their advertisements lead the gamers to believe, then it isn't a question of mere boredom anymore, it's a question of false publicity/ads. In such a case I do believe that developers (or publishers, most likely publishers more than developers) are at fault and should refund the game, or at the very least accept to exchange it (especially for digital purchases).

To me it's not an automatic and universal "no". I'd want to know what's the actual story behind each cases. The devs might be at fault, the publishers might be at fault, or the consumers might just be expecting too much or didn't inform himself well enough before buying. I mean back a decade or more ago it was very common for a lot of gamers to just "go buy a game" even if they might have never played it (at all) or even rented it. And despite that many local stores (and others) accepted refunds (at least in my city, yeah, they did). I couldn't always buy magazines left and right to find as much info as possible about a game back then, I was lucky to buy one game at all with my own savings. But today (and since a couple of years at least) Internet allows a lot of information to circulate and developers/publishers do much more work to inform the gamers about the features in their games. And of course you can read reviews and watch footage of actual game-play, which is something we probably never thought about barely a dozen years ago.

There's many ways today to "avoid being disappointed", one of which is the simplest of all, do not buy the game due to being informed. Not simply buying the game for the sake of not buying it is different. I do mean not buying a game exactly because you informed yourself and you know you wouldn't like it in the end. Now that's one way (amongst others) to avoid a good headache (especially if the game was $50+).
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
It's not really possible to do research to see if you will like a game or not but refunds because you don't like a game aren't something I want to see.

Refunds because of piss-poor testing and the presence of stupid bugs is something I could get behind though.
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,642
0
0
It's not really possible to do research to see if you will like a game or not but refunds because you don't like a game aren't something I want to see.

Refunds because of piss-poor testing and the presence of stupid bugs is something I could get behind though.

It's 100% possible. Reviews, videos, demos, and other forms of "research"
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,775
0
76
Thats it.
The customer needs to educate themselves with ANY purchase. For a car you should probably do months of research. For a game, one good afternoon on the internet.

Of course I spend 61 dollars a pop at the gas station, so for me a 20 dollar game I might play for years isnt a big deal. I guess I do research mostly not to be angry at getting garbage. Also to show gaming companies I wont support them if they put out crap.

That would be fine if reviewers weren't in the pockets of these huge publishers. And a lot of user reviews are written by employees of the game developer due to the anonymous nature of that format. And this is a universal practice by most businesses these days so don't be shocked to see a lot of it in other areas with user reviews.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
That would be fine if reviewers weren't in the pockets of these huge publishers. And a lot of user reviews are written by employees of the game developer due to the anonymous nature of that format. And this is a universal practice by most businesses these days so don't be shocked to see a lot of it in other areas with user reviews.

Indeed. It would be nice if we could refunds and/or fines handed out if such things could be proved.
 

runzwithsizorz

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2002
3,500
14
76
Only if the game is defective or is completely unplayable due to bugs/crashes. I do think that all games should offer a demo of some sort. Too often the question of performance comes up and a demo would help consumers decide if their PC is good enough to enjoy it.

:thumbsup: Totally agree. I usually wait until a game is out for awhile before I buy it...Just to make sure all bugs have been patched, etc. If a company won't support their product, I avoid that company.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
I understand it's a loaded question. I honestly don't think it's really possible for companies to allow returns on this basis, I was just discussing it with some friends (the ones who I was playing BF3 with) and I though it would be an interesting discussion on AT.

It would be impossible to quantify "This games sucks so badly I deserve a refund", so a business model couldn't really include that. The only way it might work is through Steam or Origin, where they can monitor your playing time. With a game like BF3 though, it might take 5 hours of playing before you reach a conclusion, at which point you've already kind of reached a point of no return.

Demos would solve this, but no game publishers would want it solved. If you can get someone to pay $60 for your game and then never play it, that's an ideal customer. Especially if you can manage to convince them that the *next* game will be what they really wanted and get them to bite again.

As for me, I'm done with DICE. BF2 went down hill after they started nerfing the black hawk. A friend and I loaded up the Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead demo and played some coop last night. I think they've made two sales.
 

Worthington

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2005
1,433
17
81
Electronics Boutique (remember them?) used to offer refunds on console games, if you really, really, didn't like them.

But then, at my local store, there was one guy that would buy all the new games, and return them in a week.

So I think that they stopped the policy. Or at least told him to shop somewhere else.

I returned one or two games, although I generally bought a bunch of them.

It wasn't just console games. You could return PC games and apps as well, even if your reason was "this game is terrible". They really did have the best software return policy I've ever seen.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,517
280
126
www.the-teh.com
No since you can read reviews and possible demo before you decide to buy a game.

Civilization V got higher reviews then god himself, but in a lot of peoples eyes it's horrible compared to previous versions, it has broken systems and bugs.

So it's a sort of playable game, but it works. Who decides if it's worth of a refund?

Civ IV sells for more than Civ V, is that the determining mark?

Multiplayer out of the box did not work, is that the determining mark?

The OP doesn't like BF3, I do, many others do, so how the hell would you put a value on refundability?

What the gaming world needs (can't believe I'd say this) is some regulation. We suffer from price fixing; buggy games that you can't get refunds on; accusations that we are all pirates and thus must suffer from having all sorts of locks on our products we paid for; we have no ownership rights; game companies can turn off master servers leaving us in the dark; they can ban us from playing games we paid for; and we have no used game market or a very incapacitated one.

We literally have no means of mediation. Is there any other product in the world for sale like this? Fk you can return a lawn mower to Walmart after you used it for a season and get a refund; you can buy a tool set from Home Depot and return it when you're done for a refund; you can't Fing return a game that doesn't even work on your PC for anything but another copy!
 
Feb 25, 2011
16,833
1,499
126
Yes, but only within 90 days of release, 14 days of purchase, and only if there was no demo version available.

Because if there's been reviews, customer reviews, a couple rounds of patching, and a demo you could install, buying a bad game is a case of did not do the research.
 

Veliko

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2011
3,597
127
106
Yes, but only within 90 days of release, 14 days of purchase, and only if there was no demo version available.

Because if there's been reviews, customer reviews, a couple rounds of patching, and a demo you could install, buying a bad game is a case of did not do the research.

Buying a bad game is a case of a company putting out a bad product.

The 'research' argument is blunted by the fact that companies will pay people to post positive reviews. If they are going to play dirty with this I don't see why all the onus should be put on the customer.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
YES. broken games shoudl be able to get a refund on.

Also anyone that goes by reviews are fucking idiots. its so rare to see a game reveiw below 7 or even 8 anymore.

i read sites like this and go by what people say and rarely buy it within the first month.
 

JamesV

Platinum Member
Jul 9, 2011
2,002
2
76
You should be able to return a game for a full refund if :

1. It is constantly crashing, or has problems working consistently like an online game where the servers are always down.

2. If it has a bunch of third party programs and/or DRM that is not specifically listed on the box.

3. If it is missing parts. Like you wen't to buy Diablo 3, and found out multiplayer wasn't finished and will come in a future patch.

Simply being bad isn't an excuse to return a game, and would be exploited heavily. I can finish 99% of 360 games, including getting all the achievements in three days... with a return policy you could play all the games you want and never pay for any of them.
 

Chaotic42

Lifer
Jun 15, 2001
33,929
1,098
126
YES. broken games shoudl be able to get a refund on.

Also anyone that goes by reviews are fucking idiots. its so rare to see a game reveiw below 7 or even 8 anymore.

i read sites like this and go by what people say and rarely buy it within the first month.

Unfortunately I don't really have anyone I trust for game reviews, even here.
 

IeraseU

Senior member
Aug 25, 2004
778
0
71
I remember when it was possible, but it's been a while. I'm in favor of the idea in principle, but I know people will abuse it, which is the reason it's no longer possible to return games in the first place.

Maybe they should handle it the same way Apple handles app purchases. You can get a refund if you email them, but if you do it often enough they will flag your account and you won't be able to get away with it anymore.

In the end I think it will make the game industry stronger by encouraging people not to put out crap in a shiny package or with a shiny license.
 

Nvidiaguy07

Platinum Member
Feb 22, 2008
2,846
4
81
Yes except...

13119661598595.png

Sadly its so true. Put out a decent game and the lowest score youll get is maybe 8.5

IGN is the worst about it, any "good" game will be a 9 garanteed. In fact, look at PC ign reviews for the last 12 months, sorted by rating: http://pc.ign.com/index/top-reviewed.html

hmmm having a tough time decding which game deserves my money - football manager 2012 or battlefield 3..............
 

hardhat

Senior member
Dec 4, 2011
425
115
116
In my opinion people should be given an opportunity to return any pc game within one week of the game's release. This does not apply to console games.

The reason is that in the pc industry incompatibility and launch problems are very common, and it is harming the customers without leaving them any option for recovery. However, games themselves don't have an indefinite appeal, and if you let people return them at will then there would be abuse. If you only allow returns in the first week you are relatively sure to avoid this abuse, and can know that the return relates to a problem with the software itself.

I, personally, think this is more an issue of `customer beware` than an industry problem, but it's difficult to prove defect in software, so customers do deserve some safety.
 

Martimus

Diamond Member
Apr 24, 2007
4,488
153
106
I think you should be able to return games that don't work. Of course, legally you can but it isn't really worth the expense to bring such a case to court.