Poll: Pandemic, Personal Liberty/Freedom vs Public Safety

[Jaskalas]

Effective at what? Sounds like he was talking about how effective they are at filtering out particles from others, which is not why we need mandates. Cloth masks are something like 75% effective at preventing infected people from spreading their germs. The fact that people still don't understand the difference is fucking maddening.

To be fair, people are rather stupid. And the internet has provided them with mass misinformation. Noise to drown their brains and ensure no proper signal ever reaches them.

It's like Bird Box. Only instead of an alien it's simply the internet. Allowing mental illness to spread like wildfire.

 

[Meghan54]

On Friday in San Antonio, TX, there was a period of ~30 min where there was NO ambulance response possible. All were tied up with COVID patients. (CNN interview Sat with ER MD and what’s going on in Texas.)

Said if you’d been in a wreck and needed help, you’d have found out that a 911 call would’ve left you dead. No ambulances available anywhere. He seemed to think this will start increasing in frequency and duration.

 

[HomerJS]

Interesting view of the issue. If people were given the choice between being given the vaccine or a new iphone, I'd be willing to bet a sizable portion would take the phone.

Like I already said, people are selfish

 

[HomerJS]

The freedom/liberty count is up to 5.

We've already had one person claim I'm being dramatic defacto exaggerating the threat.

What say the other 4??

 

[Pohemi]

The freedom/liberty count is up to 5.

We've already had one person claim I'm being dramatic defacto exaggerating the threat.

What say the other 4??

Minimize the risk/danger, and maximize the imagined value of personal freedumb and liberty as if it's the most important thing to anyone, ever. And you're a socialist commie marxist leninist antifa BLM CRT-teaching something something if you disagree, because snowflakes have freedumb feels and like to stomp their feet like angry toddlers (with the same level of emotional intelligence).

In other words, it's the same imbecilic FUD that it was a year ago. Except that now, there's even less rationale or justification for the anti-vax and anti-maskers.

 

[shortylickens]

Despite what most 21st century American conservatives believe, freedom is not absolute. You are not free to kill your fellow Americans but strangely they seem fine with this. Disease and insurrection and a black kid walking down the street with a bag of Skittles and some Arizona watermelon drink are all good excuses for murder.

 

[kt]

Freedom has a price. Those unvaccinated, willing to put your money where your mouth is?

Coming Soon For The Unvaccinated: A $50 Monthly Paycheck Deduction From Your Employer

Employers are beginning to tack on a special surcharge of up to $50 a month for unvaccinated workers, according to the health benefits consultancy Mercer.

www.forbes.com

 

[balloonshark]

So it looks like I will be getting my first open heart surgery since '86 (15 years old) during this delta peak. Would be nice to not have the hospital unnecessarily full of sick people while I'm recovering. Would be nice if my family would have gotten vaccinated so I don't have to face this challenge alone.

I actually asked my cardiologist if I should or could wait this wave out. He told me I had already put off seeing him once because of covid this past year and I couldn't rely on people doing the right thing and there's no predicting what the virus was going to do next. Surgeries are also backlogged because of covid so I also have a longer wait to get my valve replacement.

 

[sportage]

It’s all about patriotism and America has lost her patriotism. People sacrificing for one another. People sacrificing for the good of all. People sacrificing for common sense. And if that loss of patriotism is not enough, we have millions of Americans actually taking part with the destruction of America calling this as exercising personal freedom. When you think of it, thats a pretty sick way of thinking. With the internet and social media and creation of such mass false information it’s amazing we’ve lasted this long especially considering people like the Donald Trump’s can come along to take advantage of the mass false information. And, creating it. Thank god people were “normal” during the polio epidemic and did the right thing. They got vaccinated and polio was exterminated. That could never happen today. There is a difference between personal freedom and just plain dumb ass stupidity. I’m shocked at how downright stupid people can be. And god forbid the day should a virus come along deadlier than COVID.

 

[HomerJS]

So it looks like I will be getting my first open heart surgery since '86 (15 years old) during this delta peak. Would be nice to not have the hospital unnecessarily full of sick people while I'm recovering. Would be nice if my family would have gotten vaccinated so I don't have to face this challenge alone.

I actually asked my cardiologist if I should or could wait this wave out. He told me I had already put off seeing him once because of covid this past year and I couldn't rely on people doing the right thing and there's no predicting what the virus was going to do next. Surgeries are also backlogged because of covid so I also have a longer wait to get my valve replacement.

Wishing you luck!

 

[Zorba]

Personal freedoms end when those choices cause potential harm to others.

Examples of public health policies that are in place due to harm to others.
1. Drinking and driving
2. Vaccines
3. Smoking bans

Examples of personal freedoms that should not be legislated because they don't affect others.
1. Bans on transgender folks
2. Attacks on same sex rights.
3. Personal drug and alcohol use. (This one is tricky due to drug trade, should be legal, regulated, and taxes.)
4. Women's right to choose (before viability)


If you notice, the GQP folks have this completely backwards.

I mostly agree, but if you think drug and alcohol use and especially abuse/addiction doesn't affect others you've either never been near it or are the addict yourself and don't want to believe you are harming your loved ones.

 

[fskimospy]

I mostly agree, but if you think drug and alcohol use and especially abuse/addiction doesn't affect others you've either never been near it or are the addict yourself and don't want to believe you are harming your loved ones.

You are correct that personal drug and alcohol abuse affects others, however we 100% should not legislate against it due to...well...the humanitarian disasters of prohibition and the war on drugs.

 

[SmCaudata]

I mostly agree, but if you think drug and alcohol use and especially abuse/addiction doesn't affect others you've either never been near it or are the addict yourself and don't want to believe you are harming your loved ones.

Totally. I see the fallout daily due to my line of work. My statent was more along the lines of treat it like alcohol. Legalize, tax and regulate. Then use tax revenue to fund treatment and Healthcare associated with it (like the tobacco Truth stuff.)

Obviously associated crimes would still be punished like driving while impaired, theft, etc.... Legalizatiin would curtail much of the illegal drug trade, cutting crime significantly.

 

[Zorba]

You are correct that personal drug and alcohol abuse affects others, however we 100% should not legislate against it due to...well...the humanitarian disasters of prohibition and the war on drugs.

Totally. I see the fallout daily due to my line of work. My statent was more along the lines of treat it like alcohol. Legalize, tax and regulate. Then use tax revenue to fund treatment and Healthcare associated with it (like the tobacco Truth stuff.)

Obviously associated crimes would still be punished like driving while impaired, theft, etc.... Legalizatiin would curtail much of the illegal drug trade, cutting crime significantly.

Completely agree, the war on drugs is a completely failure that is almost certainly far worse than the alternative. Need to plow the money we spend on enforcement into education and treatment.

 

[Zorba]

On Friday in San Antonio, TX, there was a period of ~30 min where there was NO ambulance response possible. All were tied up with COVID patients. (CNN interview Sat with ER MD and what’s going on in Texas.)

Said if you’d been in a wreck and needed help, you’d have found out that a 911 call would’ve left you dead. No ambulances available anywhere. He seemed to think this will start increasing in frequency and duration.

Sadly, this is the logical conclusion of the "let it run wild" approach. Yet another Tragedy of the Commons brought to us by conservatives.

 

[HomerJS]

Liberty count is up to 7.

Only had one person in that group speak up why their personal liberty to not wear a mask or vaccinate supersedes the right of others not to catch a deadly virus and die.

 

[Dulanic]

Effective at what? Sounds like he was talking about how effective they are at filtering out particles from others, which is not why we need mandates. Cloth masks are something like 75% effective at preventing infected people from spreading their germs. The fact that people still don't understand the difference is fucking maddening.

Everyone on social media is smarter than our officials, you just don't get it. Faucci is a god damn madman! I mean he adapted as we learned more about a novel virus! How dare he!

Edit: I'll just add this back as it explains a lot.

 

[Lanyap]

Doesn't the answer vary based on population density? If you live in Toe Jam Arkansas the answer will be different than if you live in NYC. Even the vaccine question has qualifiers. I thought the vaccine was a game changer, pandemic over, life back to normal. That hasn't worked out the way I had hoped.

Except Toe Jam Arkansas is feeling the pain in the same relative manner as NYC.

https://www.thv11.com/article/news/...-rise/91-3a783915-19a2-407c-92c1-9de5cd6409ca

 

[Greenman]

Except Toe Jam Arkansas is feeling the pain in the same relative manner as NYC.

https://www.thv11.com/article/news/...-rise/91-3a783915-19a2-407c-92c1-9de5cd6409ca

25 beds with 6 patients. They'll get by.

 

[Meghan54]

25 beds with 6 patients. They'll get by.

Yeah…one ventilator for the entire hospital, no ICU. Yeah, the hosp will get by, but not so much if anyone arrives at their ER in respiratory arrest and a COVID pt has its lone vent.

Frankly, a 25 bed rural hospital without a dedicated ICU combined with active COVID patients isn’t anywhere I’d choose to be treated nor work.

 

[woolfe9998]

You are correct that personal drug and alcohol abuse affects others, however we 100% should not legislate against it due to...well...the humanitarian disasters of prohibition and the war on drugs.

Yes that, and the fact that infecting others with a pathogen is a little more direct than the emotional, and sometimes, financial, impact that an addiction will cause to others. Drug addiction is a difficult thing for the individual to control. As evidenced by the myriad of drug addiction treatment centers, detox, rehab, AA and the like. By contrast, getting a shot in your arm (for free!), or not, or wearing a mask, or not, is just not that hard a decision and the burden of making the correct decision is minimal. When you can do a simple, easy thing, to protect yourself and the public around you, it seems logical that this is what you should do, and it also seems quite logical that you suffer a penalty for failing to do so.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Yes that, and the fact that infecting others with a pathogen is a little more direct than the emotional, and sometimes, financial, impact that an addiction will cause to others. Drug addiction is a difficult thing for the individual to control. As evidenced by the myriad of drug addiction treatment centers, detox, rehab, AA and the like. By contrast, getting a shot in your arm (for free!), or not, or wearing a mask, or not, is just not that hard a decision and the burden of making the correct decision is minimal. When you can do a simple, easy thing, to protect yourself and the public around you, it seems logical that this is what you should do, and it also seems quite logical that you suffer a penalty for failing to do so.

We have had hundreds of thousands of deaths over the years from cars.

For the greater good of humanity, we need to ban motor vehicles and only use public trains and subways. It's the only way, unless.... You want innocent humans to die?

 

[fskimospy]

We have had hundreds of thousands of deaths over the years from cars.

For the greater good of humanity, we need to ban motor vehicles and only use public trains and subways. It's the only way, unless.... You want innocent humans to die?

You should sit back and think for ten seconds about why this argument is stupid.

 

[Meghan54]

You should sit back and think for ten seconds about why this argument is stupid.

Yeah, him think. LO-fucking-L!

 

[vi edit]

We have had hundreds of thousands of deaths over the years from cars.

For the greater good of humanity, we need to ban motor vehicles and only use public trains and subways. It's the only way, unless.... You want innocent humans to die?

Unlike Covid, which has a vaccine and largely preventable, some people are required to drive.

That said. Score board.